2nd Trip with the Tesla Model X towing the 23FB Globetrotter. Loving every minute!

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by BryanC63

I have a couple posts about the X. We installed a DrawTite from eTrailer. All of the instructions are there. It’s straight forward and doable but not simple. If you are asking about an S, they do make bitches for those too, with some googling, you’ll find YouTube videos and other info. But I don’t have direct experience with the S.

Thanx for the info Bryan.

Yes, our son in Colorado Springs has a 2017 Tesla S 75, plus he has the lifetime free charging - so it's well worth it for him to keep his & "rebattery" it whenever they need updating.

Hopefully you meant "hitches" for the S above.

The X & S should be pretty similar capabilities, since they're essentially the same chassis, but the S may have a tad more payload without the extra weight of the X's wing doors/mechanisms.

I'm not sure if/when they'll get a trailer, but they probably will have 1st dibs whenever we stop using our `60 Avion T20.


Suggestions for HW & Balancing Loads:

Get yourself a Sherline hitch weight scale to get an accurate HW at home while you work on balancing your HW to what you need in the trailer.

https://www.sherline.com/product/she...-weight-scale/

Plus you can pack some of your gear & luggage from the X into the trailer to free up some payload in your X (or any TV) for more than 340# for the HW - easily a 100#+ can usually be moved into the trailer from our experience.

I'm not sure which WD/AS hitch you're using, but remember that it will add weight to your HW - as will your LP tanks, which are harder to run empty than your water & waste tanks.

Also, if the black &/or gray &/or fresh water tanks are aft of your axles, then you're better off not to run them empty, because they're positioned rearward to help balance the AS total load fore & aft.

Hopefully you can get your payload up by moving gear, & HW minimized by balancing your trailer better.

PS - From your CAT Scale data - it looks like you're running a tad heavier on the rear axle vs, the front (although the X looks reasonably level & not noticably front high).

"[quoted]
• ⁠Front axle rating 3241 lb (3020 weighed)
• ⁠Rear 3807 lb (3560)
[end quote]"

So you can fine tune adjust your WD hitch a tad in order get a bit more weight off the rear axle to possibly help with freeing up some more than the current 340# reserve for HW.

However, as you stated - you'll want to maintain 10-15% of the trailer's total loaded weight as HW on the ball for most WD/AS hitches - unless you're using either the Hensley or ProPride 3P WD/AD hitches, which are mechanically fixed to the TV-Ball-TT & don't require a specific HW for towing (but they will add 160-180 lbs to the HW).

If your AS is GTWR at 6000 lbs or less (or you're religious about not exceeding 6000), then you can go with the less expensive 600# bar/6000# trailer rated Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch with your rig (we use that on our Avion & mid-sized TVs are no problem for us). The Hensley's & PP's crank-up WD adjustment jacks are easier to use/fine-tune-WD than chains, it all stays on your trailer full time (don't need to dismount hitch head, torsion bars, etc. when parked), it tows smoothly & dead steady with no sway, & sells in the $1300-1800 with a lifetime warranty - vs. $2000-3000+ for the bigger capacity 1000#/10000# rated Hensley Arrow & PP. They all 3 allow for tighter turns & clearance for the rear hatch or tailgate to open on the TV while hitched.

https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/

FYI for the Hensley Cub - this is ours with a rental Enterprise truck & with rental Nissan Pathfinder about the same wheelbase, length & CW as your Tesla X (our plan is to get a Cayenne eHybrid at some point):









Comment on Safety Chains:

From your pic below that I saved & sent to my son - if you blow up that photo, I noticed that it looks like you need to shorten your safety chains to not drag or be so close to the ground & hit on level changes. Note the silver bits hanging below the Tesla's rear bumper -




You can get those threaded Quik Links at many spots to securely fasten & shorten the chains without cutting links. Just run the chain end through the hitch receiver chain loops & connect the end to the main chain run between the trailer & TV using the threaded Quik Link below (get proper weight for the chains & trailer). Remember to cross the chains to form an "X" under the trailer's A-frame/Coupler.



https://www.homedepot.com/p/CURT-1-2...=en-US#overlay


You want the chains to be adjusted short enough to be able to catch & cradle the towbar &/or A-frame should they or the hitch itself fail - while still loose enough for turning - so you can get off the road safely. Hanging that low will have the front of the A-frame/Coupler/Towbar hitting the ground in a failure-then-caught - possibly then flipping the trailer.


Trip Suggestion:

You might want to try some mountain camping around Cherokee NC - the EBCI has a Tesla super charger at their Harrah's Casino, & there are 3 around Asheville - as well as the RV Park charging that you used on your more local trips.

It's a beautiful area with lots to see & nice RV Parks & Campgrounds. Try to catch the Cherokee Museum, Oconaluftee Indian Village & Unto These Hills play next door, as well as other local sights around the National Park, Smokey Mountain Crafters Museum, Parkway, etc. around the Asheville-to-Cherokee area.

Hopefully the above helps with your weight balancing act.
Safe Travels!

Cheers! :beer2:
Tom
///////

[Mattedfred]

Originally Posted by BryanC63

We just completed our second camping trip in the new Airstream. Loving every minute of towing and camping. Ebenezer Park is a nice spot on the lake. Quiet, friendly folks.

Numbers & Details from this trip:

Headed to Lake Wylie in South Carolina to camp at Ebenezer Park for Valentine’s weekend.

• ⁠40 miles from home.
• ⁠Started at 98% battery, arrived with 65%
• ⁠Averaged 794 wh/mi
• ⁠Kept speed at 58mph as much as possible fairly windy on the drive down
• ⁠Charged over night on the 50 amp hookup. Had the trailer attached to 30 amp.
• ⁠On the way back, weighed at the CAT scales. We weighed the whole rig vehicle and trailer hooked up, and then weighed with the trailer unhooked.
• ⁠Two adults, dog, groceries, clothes, inflatable paddle board, toiletries, and miscellaneous small things. We run the trailer dry (No fresh water, one gal of water in the black.

Weight numbers are solid.

• ⁠GVWR is 6878 lb (weighed in at 6580)
• ⁠Front axle rating 3241 lb (3020 weighed)
• ⁠Rear 3807 lb (3560)
• ⁠Tow rating: 5000 lb (trailer weighed in at 4900).
• ⁠Vehicle alone unhooked, but fully loaded is 6240.
- Leaving a 340lb tongue weight with the weight distribution. After weighing, I’ve determined I will adjust the WD to change distribution and get it to 10%.

Stupid question but isn't the Unit Base Weight (with LP & Batteries) for the 2022 GT 23FB 5297 lbs?

[mtbmitch]

Originally Posted by BryanC63

We just completed our second camping trip in the new Airstream. Loving every minute of towing and camping. Ebenezer Park is a nice spot on the lake. Quiet, friendly folks.

Numbers & Details from this trip:

Headed to Lake Wylie in South Carolina to camp at Ebenezer Park for Valentine’s weekend.

• ⁠40 miles from home.
• ⁠Started at 98% battery, arrived with 65%
• ⁠Averaged 794 wh/mi
• ⁠Kept speed at 58mph as much as possible fairly windy on the drive down
• ⁠Charged over night on the 50 amp hookup. Had the trailer attached to 30 amp.
• ⁠On the way back, weighed at the CAT scales. We weighed the whole rig vehicle and trailer hooked up, and then weighed with the trailer unhooked.
• ⁠Two adults, dog, groceries, clothes, inflatable paddle board, toiletries, and miscellaneous small things. We run the trailer dry (No fresh water, one gal of water in the black.

Weight numbers are solid.

• ⁠GVWR is 6878 lb (weighed in at 6580)
• ⁠Front axle rating 3241 lb (3020 weighed)
• ⁠Rear 3807 lb (3560)
• ⁠Tow rating: 5000 lb (trailer weighed in at 4900).
• ⁠Vehicle alone unhooked, but fully loaded is 6240.
- Leaving a 340lb tongue weight with the weight distribution. After weighing, I’ve determined I will adjust the WD to change distribution and get it to 10%.

Leaving the factory, Airstream specs the Globetrotter 23fb at 5297 pounds. Please share how to lightened up the trailer.

[Mattedfred]

Originally Posted by mtbmitch

Leaving the factory, Airstream specs the Globetrotter 23fb at 5297 pounds. Please share how to lightened up the trailer.

I asked the OP that question over a month ago. Still waiting for an answer.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by mtbmitch

Leaving the factory, Airstream specs the Globetrotter 23fb at 5297 pounds. Please share how to lightened up the trailer.

Hi

If you just weigh the trailer axle with it hooked up to tow, the weight on that axle will be lower than the specified weight of the RV. Part of the weight is going to the tongue and to the axles of the TV.

One would guess *that* is how you "lighten up" the trailer. You use a different number ( axle weight hooked up).

If you are looking for a GCVWR sort of number, adding up the axle weights is a fine way to do it. There's noting wrong with using that data. It simply gets confusing if you toss it out without mentioning which number it is.

Back in the day, axle numbers where the only thing that actually mattered. They didn't do a separate "payload" number calculated the way they do today. Now with all the fun stuff to lighten up a vehicle, they have a different approach. Time marches on .... A lot of us grew up with the old system and it's tough to keep up with these changes. ( Yes, it still is a bit confusing to me .... ).

Bob

[CWSWine]

The charging stations I have seen on the highway you pull straight into. To charge a tow vehicle and RV attached would be impossible to do without blocking the access road and probably a couple of charging spots. The access roads that runs behind the ones I seen is one lane and one way road and are narrow. I guess you could disconnect but the would hassle if you need to charge several times during a days travel. I don't think they are thinking about have tow vehicle and say a 33 foot classic using the charging stations.

What have you experienced during your travels?

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

The charging stations I have seen on the highway you pull straight into. To charge a tow vehicle and RV attached would be impossible to do without blocking the access road and probably a couple of charging spots. The access roads that runs behind the one I seen is one lane and one way road and are narrow. I guess you could disconnect but the would hassle if you need to charge several times during a days travel. I don't think they are thinking about have tow vehicle and say a 33 foot classic using the charging stations.

What have experienced during your travels?

I was just thinking the same thing.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

The charging stations I have seen on the highway you pull straight into. To charge a tow vehicle and RV attached would be impossible to do without blocking the access road and probably a couple of charging spots. The access roads that runs behind the ones I seen is one lane and one way road and are narrow. I guess you could disconnect but the would hassle if you need to charge several times during a days travel. I don't think they are thinking about have tow vehicle and say a 33 foot classic using the charging stations.

What have you experienced during your travels?

The OP posted that they charged at the campground. May need to wait to find out about charge stations.

In the meantime, CanAm have written about towing a 27 with a Tesla Model 3. They did not need to unhitch as they were able to reach the charge cable, but noted that if all charging stalls were occupied they would have had to.

I don’t believe there are any BEVs available to tow a 33 foot Classic, at least not yet.

To this point charging stations have been configured for the vehicles using them. Superchargers to this point typically include one stall that isn’t back in, probably for vehicles with bike carriers. New charging station designs include pull through stalls.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by jcl

The OP posted that they charged at the campground. May need to wait to find out about charge stations.

In the meantime, CanAm have written about towing a 27 with a Tesla Model 3. They did not need to unhitch as they were able to reach the charge cable, but noted that if all charging stalls were occupied they would have had to.

I don’t believe there are any BEVs available to tow a 33 foot Classic, at least not yet.

To this point charging stations have been configured for the vehicles using them. Superchargers to this point typically include one stall that isn’t back in, probably for vehicles with bike carriers. New charging station designs include pull through stalls.

I saw the OP was charging at champ grounds but he also said his range was about 100 miles. Lot of trips are between 1000 to 2000 miles and I don't want to find a campgrounds every 100 miles. I'm sure this going to get better over time but today that wouldn't work for me.

The reference to 33 foot classic was made since we are suppose to be going full electric cars at some date in the future.

The designs I have seen are in highway rest stops and the are just adding a charging stations on the exit end of the rest stop. They are narrow enough that most AS would block access back onto the highway while charging.

Has any seen a pull thru electric charging station?

[Mollysdad]

Just curious, does towing with an EV generate more heat since the motors are working harder? Is there a gauge of how hard the motors are working?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I saw the OP was charging at champ grounds but he also said his range was about 100 miles. Lot of trips are between 1000 to 2000 miles and I don't want to find a campgrounds every 100 miles. I'm sure this going to get better over time but today that wouldn't work for me.

The reference to 33 foot classic was made since we are suppose to be going full electric cars at some date in the future.

The designs I have seen are in highway rest stops and the are just adding a charging stations on the exit end of the rest stop. They are narrow enough that most AS would block access back onto the highway while charging.

Has any seen a pull thru electric charging station?

Yes.

The first photo is from our last trip through the US. This was a Supercharger in Monroe Washington. Some stalls were designed for the vehicle to back in (the traditional model for Tesla, since the charge port is at the rear of the vehicle). Some were spaced out from the curb. Some were designed for the vehicle to pull past, hooked up or not.

The second photo is from Canmore Alberta. This is a fairly traditional Supercharger design. The stalls are designed to reverse in to, but the end stalls are accessible as pull throughs. It would have been better if they had not put a fire hydrant at one end.

The third photo is one of the latest Tesla Supercharger designs, this one is in California.

The fourth photo is one of the Tesla Megachargers, installed for the Tesla Semis.

Lots of possibilities. The charging point in these cases is simply a post, and so the charge station design layout can be very flexible. Charging stations are being built at a very high rate across North America, and the operators are well aware of usage factors (who is using them, for how long) and are planning their upgrades based on that information.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Just curious, does towing with an EV generate more heat since the motors are working harder? Is there a gauge of how hard the motors are working?

Depends on the specific EV, but for our Tesla and other vehicles I have seen, yes.

The dash display can show energy consumption instantaneously, or over a number of different time scales.

The shot of a Tesla dash display below isn't our vehicle, but it is representative.

If one is using more power, eg towing, it seems logical that more heat will be created. Our vehicle has 384 hp, so the cooling system is designed to handle the heat rejected at that power level. The motors have greater than 90% efficiency, so overheating is simply not the same issue it is with an ICE vehicle where the engine is around 30% efficient, and the rest is heat to be rejected, along with heat from the transmission. Our vehicle has oil cooled electric motors, with an oil to cooling system heat exchanger.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by jcl

Yes.

The first photo is from our last trip through the US. This was a Supercharger in Monroe Washington. Some stalls were designed for the vehicle to back in (the traditional model for Tesla, since the charge port is at the rear of the vehicle). Some were spaced out from the curb. Some were designed for the vehicle to pull past, hooked up or not.

The second photo is from Canmore Alberta. This is a fairly traditional Supercharger design. The stalls are designed to reverse in to, but the end stalls are accessible as pull throughs. It would have been better if they had not put a fire hydrant at one end.

The third photo is one of the latest Tesla Supercharger designs, this one is in California.

The fourth photo is one of the Tesla Megachargers, installed for the Tesla Semis.

Lots of possibilities. The charging point in these cases is simply a post, and so the charge station design layout can be very flexible. Charging stations are being built at a very high rate across North America, and the operators are well aware of usage factors (who is using them, for how long) and are planning their upgrades based on that information.

LOL.... I'm sure there are exceptions but the one I have seen are retro fitted in highway rest stops or in were added to parking space in parking lot. Either one has enough access for tow vehicle plus RV attached. I will wait an answer from the OP on his travels and charging stations...

[LewisC]

very cool pulling with the Tesla! we live right up the road from Ebenezer park and it's really a nice spot. the county has sunk allot of money into park in the past couple years. since you have a limited range, I'll point out a few more spots you might want to visit. Kings Mountain, Andrew Jackson, Lake Wateree, also a brand new county campground is being built on Lake Wylie and will be open this summer i believe. it will be named the Allison Creek park.

[jcl]

I posted the above re heat rejection by the motors of an EV, but have a broader comment.

Many of the questions that get raised about EVs, and towing with EVs, are based on the past experience all of us have with ICE vehicles. Things that are real challenges with ICE vehicles are considered to be equal challenges with EVs, by those not familiar with EVs.

Things like heat rejection, which is a significant cause of problems with ICE vehicles, because they need to reject most of the energy content of the fuel as heat, and getting rid of that heat is a problem made even worse by towing.

Things like not being able to carry a jerry can get raised as challenges because ICE vehicles don't help you manage the fuel on board, they just have a fuel gauge. They don't know where the next fuel is available from, they don't know the distance to empty and what you should do to improve your range. A message on the dash advising the operator to reduce speed by 10 mph to improve range and make it safely to the destination, or alternatively stop in at one of these nearby charging stations, is a foreign concept.

Things like being stranded in a winter storm come up because people are accustomed to running their ICE to generate heat, with all the resultant energy waste.

EVs simply avoid many of these issues. They are so much more efficient that heat rejection isn't seen as an issue. They know where the chargers are, what the average and instantaneous energy consumption is, and help the operator manage that situation. They have been shown to keep a vehicle warm longer in a winter storm.

The focus solely on EV range and charge time causes many drivers to skip over all these and many other common issues with ICE vehicles. They just write it off as normal. That isn't to say that there are EV tow vehicles available yet for 33 foot Classics, but the concerns raised are often just not concerns to EV owners.

[CWSWine]

I just check out camp grounds rules and states in the rules NO Electric Car Charging Allowed. I wonder how campgrounds are not allowing it? Makes sense for campground that electric is including in the price.