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02-04-2017, 10:16 AM
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#101
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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If you think an RV shop knows more about your tow vehicle than the OEM, thats certainly your prerogative. You just have to accept that many people do not think as such.
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02-04-2017, 12:24 PM
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#102
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Rivet Master
Lakes Region
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX
Which US state(s) will fine a private, non-commercial light-duty pickup truck for operation over its weight rating?
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CAUTION- The danger to asking questions and getting answers is that after that point you can no longer plead ignorance as an excuse, just denial. DO NOT GO FURTHER IF THIS APPLIES TO YOU
This information pertains specifically to just about everything larger than a base model half ton, my Sierra 1500 has a base weight (unladen) of over 6000lbs
The axle weight on any axle and the gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicle and trailer or vehicle and semitrailer or any other object, including its load, may not exceed the LESSER of the manufacturer’s axle weight rating, the manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating or the following axle and gross weight limits:
HERE
In CT if you are between 8500-10000 GVWR then you can get a combination registration over 10000lbs and its commercial
HERE
NY law requires that a truck over 6,000lbs without a camper, bed, stove or refrigerator permanently mounted in the back of the truck be registered as a commercial vehicle and as such any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000lbs stop at all weigh stations.
HERE and HERE
CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT VEHICLES IN MASSACHUSETTS, NEW YORK AND RHODE ISLAND
As is the case with Connecticut criminal law, the absence of specific statutes in Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island regarding the operation of overweight trucks does not preclude vehicle operators or owners from criminal prosecution. All three states have laws that punish criminal negligence in its various forms. The ancient legal doctrines of manslaughter and assault are codified in the penal codes of Massachusetts, New York and Rhode Island, and provide the structural basis for charges against owners and operators whose overweight trucks cause accidents that result in death or serious injury.
HERE
You have to click the link to see the chart, which shows that reckless endangerment can get you 1 year in prison
Please I welcome any FACT check on anything I've posted.
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02-04-2017, 01:11 PM
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#103
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyNH
CAUTION- The danger to asking questions and getting answers is that after that point you can no longer plead ignorance as an excuse, just denial. DO NOT GO FURTHER IF THIS APPLIES TO YOU
This information pertains specifically to just about everything larger than a base model half ton, my Sierra 1500 has a base weight (unladen) of over 6000lbs
The axle weight on any axle and the gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicle and trailer or vehicle and semitrailer or any other object, including its load, may not exceed the LESSER of the manufacturer’s axle weight rating, the manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating or the following axle and gross weight limits:
HERE
In CT if you are between 8500-10000 GVWR then you can get a combination registration over 10000lbs and its commercial
HERE
NY law requires that a truck over 6,000lbs without a camper, bed, stove or refrigerator permanently mounted in the back of the truck be registered as a commercial vehicle and as such any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000lbs stop at all weigh stations.
HERE and HERE
CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT VEHICLES IN MASSACHUSETTS, NEW YORK AND RHODE ISLAND
As is the case with Connecticut criminal law, the absence of specific statutes in Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island regarding the operation of overweight trucks does not preclude vehicle operators or owners from criminal prosecution. All three states have laws that punish criminal negligence in its various forms. The ancient legal doctrines of manslaughter and assault are codified in the penal codes of Massachusetts, New York and Rhode Island, and provide the structural basis for charges against owners and operators whose overweight trucks cause accidents that result in death or serious injury.
HERE
You have to click the link to see the chart, which shows that reckless endangerment can get you 1 year in prison
Please I welcome any FACT check on anything I've posted.
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So, heavier trucks in CT and in NY (the max unladen weight of any 2017 F150, according to Ford, is the Raptor Supercrew at 5697 lb. All but one other configuration have empty weights under 5000 lb. All SuperDuty trucks registered in those states would seem to be subject to the weight regulations, but again are registered as commercial and outside the scope of the question I asked. While private, they are registered as commercial.
Would someone from another state, with an F250 with private registration, be subject to the commercial regulations when driving through NY or CT? I'm not sure, but would be quite surprised to find that's the case. Based on the regulations quoted and the unladen and gross weights of a 2017 F150 Platinum (the topic of this thread) it would seem that the F150 would not be subject to those more-stringent commercial regulations unless intentionally licensed as commercial.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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02-04-2017, 01:17 PM
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#104
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Rivet Master
2019 30' Classic
Canfield
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,559
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I now have added bf Goodrich ko2 ta's to my 2016 plat f150. Started with 46 psi but quickly jumped to 52 psi. It still rides nice, has no sway and goes great in the snow. Really beefed up the solid feel of the truck. I'm very happy now. Get rid of the passenger tire was good advice. 8 plys are safer too.
__________________
"At some point, throwing money at the problem *is* the right answer", Uncle Bob
x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\101970\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\/x\x/x\x/x
Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin
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02-04-2017, 01:48 PM
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#105
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,500
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More Re: NY registration
It would seem that NY regulations have an easy workaround for the commercial designation for pickups with a GVWR under 10k... From the link RandyNH provided:
Quote:
If your modified pick-up truck with an unladen weight greater than 6,000 lbs., you can register it in the passenger class if it meets the following conditions:
the pick-up truck does not have any business advertisements and is used exclusively for non-commercial purposes
a camper top having one or more side windows completely encloses the truck bed
the pick-up truck has seats, seat fittings, or camping equipment installed in the truck bed
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The camping equipment is described on the website with "or" conditions, so simply having a bed would seem to qualify, or "seat fittings" which might be something as light as places to bolt a seat, but I suppose a lightweight racing seat mounted in the bed under a camper shell that had at least one side window would satisfy the requirement with little room left for argument.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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02-04-2017, 02:48 PM
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#106
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Rivet Master
Lakes Region
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX
Based on the regulations quoted and the unladen and gross weights of a 2017 F150 Platinum (the topic of this thread) it would seem that the F150 would not be subject to those more-stringent commercial regulations unless intentionally licensed as commercial.
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With this I agree, I only stepped into this discussion when it was brought up that overloading beyond the GVWR was fine to regularly do. I missed the narrowness and specificity of your question, in regards to the potential of being pulled over. I don't disagree either, that unless you looked liked a danger to the general public, they wouldn't bother to stop a trailer being towed nor would they care if an F250 towing doesn't stop at weigh stations.
None of this changes that exceeding the GVWR of a vehicle, should not be recommended or endorsed.
It's about having the proper tool for the job and I've posted a few times promoting the F150 properly equipped (it will more than likely be my next purchase) as I am not a believer that a diesel F250 is necessary to tow everything.
Oh, and I agree with bolting the seats in the bed of the truck as a work around
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02-04-2017, 03:13 PM
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#107
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,578
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This discussion seems quite balanced. I follow tire and axle limits, and generally follow GVWR limits, but don't agree with the payload comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyNH
The max payload isn't a guess it isn't a guide, it is the exact number that has been determined by extensive engineering and the difference between the GVWR and the build weight of the vehicle. By saying that you regularly are 500lbs over payload is the same as 500lbs over GVWR and in some states and the province of British Columbia that is illegal and fineable. Along with exceeding the specifications for your vehicle for stability and braking.
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The issue is that there is more than one definition of payload. The greatest potential payload, respecting GVWR, is the GVWR less the curb weight, as you say. However, that isn't necessarily the same number that is printed in the owner's manual, or on the door sticker.
Those printed maximum payload figures may be lower because:
a) It is a conservative figure listed in a common owner's manual, not specific to that vehicle configuration (and this happens with door stickers as well), or
b) because it is further reduced from the theoretical limit by the manufacturer's calculations based on knowing that the load is going to be located behind the rear axle (for example), based on the vehicle design and where it is physically possible to carry a load. Some owners will put a load on the tailgate, and think it is the same as putting up against the cab where it is more centred.
So when people quote owner's manuals, I tend to glaze over. I go by the GVWR, less the weigh scale weight. That means, for example, that if I remove the rear seat because it is useless to me, that I have increased my useful payload. I haven't changed the manufacturer's figures for payload at all, I fully understand that. And I don't get a manual or door sticker update.
I won't get in to the actual GVWR applicability, even though many jurisdictions don't use GVWR as a regulation for non-commercial operators, since I live in a jurisdiction that does. It isn't commonly enforced here (roadside inspections rely on visual cues of extreme overloading for non-commercial vehicles, followed by use of portable scales).
Jeff
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06-06-2017, 04:37 PM
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#108
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3 Rivet Member
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Albuquerque
, New Mexico
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 200
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This is a very interesting thread and is of particular interest to me. I just found a '12 F-150 Platinum 4x4 Crew Cab in great shape with only 42k miles. It's a beautiful truck all the way around. Short bed (so it fits in the garage), 36 gal. fuel tank (to reduce fill-ups), and 3.55 rear end (to improve fuel mileage, yet still tow up hills).
I was just about ready to pull the trigger when I looked at the tire and loading info on the door and it said payload 1093. Could this be possible? The truck has no more special accessories than any other Platinum, slide out running boards, moonroof, adjustable leather seats. Most of the other posts show a minimum of over 1350 and as high as 2000 for payload capacity. I'd really like to stay with a half ton as it will be my daily driver, but am I risking too much with 1093 payload capacity?
BTW, I'm towing a '16 Flying Cloud FB twin.
__________________
'17 Ford F-150 Ecoboost, max tow package
'13 GMC Yukon Denali 6.2L V8
'04 GMC Yukon SLT 5.3L V8
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06-06-2017, 05:13 PM
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#109
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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The pre-aluminum F150 platinums had pretty low payload. Seen plenty of griping about that. Starting in 2015, with the aluminum bodies, platinums are getting 1,400 ish payload. The heavy sunroof, power running boards, 20" tires and wheels, and other cumulative extras do siginficantly subtract from payload. I have a 2017 F150 Lariat with 1660 lbs payload. Its nicely equiped with leather and power seats, but not those other heavy extras. Can't get that much payload with a platinum.
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06-06-2017, 05:25 PM
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#110
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
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Hi
Yes, your Platinum F-150 (and my F-250) have stickers on the door post. If you (like me) have been getting data off of the internet, the numbers on that sticker are a bit surprising. The bottom line is that the sticker is the thing you can trust the most. That's what the people who designed and built that specific vehicle think it can carry. We may or may not like that number, but that is their number.
If you somehow / someway / some reason are in a court of law, that is the number various people will be pointing to. You will probably have a difficult time convincing various people in court that some other number applies.
No, I'm not a lawyer and you should never take legal advice from some guy named Bob on the internet.
Bob
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06-06-2017, 05:27 PM
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#111
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New Member
Carmel
, Alabama
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2
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I like it. It's on the list.
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06-06-2017, 06:02 PM
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#112
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
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Hi
I think my 2017 F-250 is terrific. I'm certainly not dumping it for something else. The payload on the sticker is a bit of a surprise. All the "stuff" they add on to turn it into a Platinum does add up ....Yes, I'd *love* to see how they add it all up compared to their internet numbers
Bob
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06-06-2017, 11:32 PM
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#113
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4 Rivet Member
2018 28' International
Renton
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abqdor
This is a very interesting thread and is of particular interest to me. I just found a '12 F-150 Platinum 4x4 Crew Cab in great shape with only 42k miles. It's a beautiful truck all the way around. Short bed (so it fits in the garage), 36 gal. fuel tank (to reduce fill-ups), and 3.55 rear end (to improve fuel mileage, yet still tow up hills).
I was just about ready to pull the trigger when I looked at the tire and loading info on the door and it said payload 1093. Could this be possible? The truck has no more special accessories than any other Platinum, slide out running boards, moonroof, adjustable leather seats. Most of the other posts show a minimum of over 1350 and as high as 2000 for payload capacity. I'd really like to stay with a half ton as it will be my daily driver, but am I risking too much with 1093 payload capacity?
BTW, I'm towing a '16 Flying Cloud FB twin.
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2013 Platinum here. Payload 1111# if I remember correctly. After a visit to the CAT scales, where we were a little over our payload although packed heavy, we are adjusting what and where we carry things. But in the end, with this truck we will always be fighting the weight battle. It will be a losing battle when we want to bring friends along. Find a Lariat that's loaded with the things you want but without some of the heavy items I've heard about like the sunroof and auto folding running boards of the Platinum. If I knew then what I know now I would have bought a different truck. As we consider that we might move to a bigger trailer someday I'm faced with the need to replace this truck much much much sooner than I thought because of payload, not towing capacity.
I found that the salesmen kept referring back to the brochure payload and tow numbers and when asked about specific numbers for the truck in front of us, they were confused. I choose to believe that they were as clueless as I was but it's not hard to guess they simply didn't want to know details that might kill a deal. Next time I will be smarter.
__________________
Walt
2018 28 International Serenity
2013 F150 Ecoboost
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06-08-2017, 05:38 AM
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#114
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
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Hi
On the newer trucks, the answer to payload it pretty simple, go to the F350. You don't really loose anything else. You gain payload. Indeed one of the sales guys I worked with suggested just that. Had the door post numbers been available, he probably would have sold me the 350. In this day and age of data everywhere, I find it tough to believe the numbers are all that hard to dig up from inside Ford. The same magic "build your Ford" web site should be able to give you the number ....It's all in an SQL database, just write the queries and do simple math ...
Bob
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06-08-2017, 08:09 AM
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#115
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4 Rivet Member
2018 28' International
Renton
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 291
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Bob, you can get a very close estimate of a special order truck as you "build" it. In looking for used trucks, as we did, I found that universally salespeople didn't understand the question regarding the door sticker for payload. Not everyone tows or hauls so not everyone has thought about payload as such. However, salespeople should know and understand what the door sticker means for the trucks they sell. I had one salesman tell me anecdotal stories of how much he and his buddies hauled and pulled as evidence of the capability of the F150 and was still confused when I asked specific questions. It was very frustrating for someone like me who was trying to understand these fundamentals for the first time.
__________________
Walt
2018 28 International Serenity
2013 F150 Ecoboost
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06-09-2017, 05:41 AM
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#116
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wconley
Bob, you can get a very close estimate of a special order truck as you "build" it. In looking for used trucks, as we did, I found that universally salespeople didn't understand the question regarding the door sticker for payload. Not everyone tows or hauls so not everyone has thought about payload as such. However, salespeople should know and understand what the door sticker means for the trucks they sell. I had one salesman tell me anecdotal stories of how much he and his buddies hauled and pulled as evidence of the capability of the F150 and was still confused when I asked specific questions. It was very frustrating for someone like me who was trying to understand these fundamentals for the first time.
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Hi
The problem we quickly ran into is that a build truck would have been two wheel drive rather than four wheel drive. There were no 2017's on any dealer lot within 600 miles of here. There also were none that were close in used inventory anywhere. People apparently just don't buy 2 wheel drive around here.
I happen to be to tall to fit under a moon roof. Every inch of clearance matters to me Even ordering one without that option, but with some of the other stuff we needed was a bit of an issue. Many of the packages interlock with each other.
Yes, we compromised. Welcome to life I'm very happy with what we got. My guess is that the order in truck would have been a compromise looking back a year or three from now.
Bob
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06-09-2017, 08:26 AM
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#117
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Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,619
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F250 vs F150 experience
After 111K miles on our 2012 Platinum 4x4 Supercrew Echoboost pulling 2 different 25' AS’s, I can tell you my only complaint was the payload of 1039lbs. Like others, I did not know the significance of that little sticker on the door until I owned it a few years. After I "learned" the importance of payload on the Forum couple years ago, I had always thought about overloading on every trip we took. We were always overloaded with our 25’FB Twin by at least 150lbs; sometimes with the Kayaks, 250lbs over. The truck did fine, but I was always cautious when driving and always a little concerned.
Wife recently decided we needed a bigger AS so we just purchased a new 28’ with 1000lbs tongue weight. I was just going to get a new 2017 F150 EB again, and I love the new transmission, torque, etc., but I could not find a payload over 1500-1600 lbs. on the King Ranch or Platinum units. Would have had to order a Lariat and wait 7 weeks to get it with options I want. (Owning a Platinum spoiled us a bit with options!) Anyway, wife started pushing me to look at the new F250 seriously so I took one home for the night. That's all it took; we got the new King Ranch model. Impressions: it is a bigger truck for sure, although only a foot longer than my F150. It has lots of power (900+lbs of torque), and payload over 2200lbs; plenty for pulling a 28' and hauling all our gear (plus, the King Ranch model is very nice inside also!) We drove from TX to OR to get our new 28' this past week, 2400 miles pulling a small U-Haul trailer, average 15.6 MPG. We logged 200 miles yesterday pulling the new AS, heading from OR to our place in MT; average 13mpg in the mountains so far. Spent the night in Pendelton OR; no worries at all and very nice ride.
Would I recommend an F150 or an F250 going forward? I think both are nice; daily driving the F150 is very nice, but I am not finding the F250 to be a big problem I originally was concerned about. It has 7 cameras help to with parking, lane change alert and adaptive cruise control are also very nice, along with "engine brake" and cruise, I feel pretty good while towing up and down hill in traffic. Did I mention the massaging seats were unbelievable on that long drive out? :-)
I know the F150 would pull the 28', but the payload and extra capability of the F250 feels pretty darned nice...time will tell, but so far I feel pretty relaxed while driving this set up.
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06-09-2017, 08:34 AM
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#118
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3 Rivet Member
2011 27 FB International
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 228
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On a 150 You can only get the payload up to good numbers with the heavy duty payload package, and you cant get that with any trim level above Lariat. I ended up with 2284# payload on a Lariat, and it's nice enough for my tastes.
You can easily calculate within a few # the payload you'd get on an order, here's the sheet i used to do it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...MldhH6IDOYhy_0
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06-09-2017, 11:54 AM
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#119
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Garden Valley
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,631
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I'd be more concerned about "P" rated tires that generally come on a new F-150 than being overweight by a few pounds. Either swap out for D or E rated LT tires or worry about side walls and blow outs from 4 ply passenger tires.
__________________
2008 F-250 4X4 Lariat V-10
2002 Airstream Classic 30' w/SO #2074
2007 Kubota 900 RTV
1996 Ford Bronco
2007 Lincoln LT
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06-09-2017, 12:39 PM
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#120
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Load your F150 and use a quality, properly set up weight distribution system to ensure your truck's axles can be loaded evenly and about 200 lbs transferred to the Airstream axles. Verify this at the CAT scale.
Payload number has a lot more to do with hauling (than towing) where you cannot control the axle loads with a w.d. hitch. GAWR and GCWR of the truck will tell you what you can carry, pull, and stop when towing. GVWR/payoad is a nice generic number than doesn't tell you much of anything when towing.
And none of this takes into consideration the superior towing and handling characteristics of an Airstream. An F-150 will tow an Airstream easier and safer than a solid axle, box-shaped travel trailer of the same weight.
And then there are w.d. hitches, fully one-third of towing satisfaction and much of the safety when using a half-ton pickup. We've got the one that works best for us, others have their favorites.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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