2 Catastrophic Tire Failures in 1 Day !!!!!!!

[Cracker]

Scary stories! I'm still running the original "C-rated" Goodyear Marathons with my 2000 30' Excella. I repacked the bearings last summer - possibly for the first time since the trailer left the factory (---I'm the second Owner.) The hubs had previously been packed by someone who "filled" the entire hub with grease! I checked the wear on the tires and remounted them in their original location. I run 50 psi per the Owner's manual and I check the tires religiously prior to every departure with a high quality truck tire gauge. The pressure hardly ever budges or shows any variance from tire to tire. The trailer rides dead level when hooked up and I'm well within my weight limits. The only thing I have not been able to do is to check the weight from side to side. That said, the margin of safety on the net wheel load probably precludes any likelihood that I'm overweight on one side or the other.

The one remaining procedure I follow religiously is that I conduct a temperature check of the tires and axles every time I stop for fuel or to take a break. This is done using a Raytek temperature gauge with a lazer pointer. It only takes a minute or so as all I am looking for is any unusual temperature differentials that might indicate a loss of air. It's accurate enough that I can consistantly expect the right front tire of the trailer to be slightly higher in temperature due to the heat from the truck exhaust! I also check the tires on the truck at the same time - as differential temperatures ("pressure") with dual tires can be a matter of real concern.

Finally, most of my driving is in relatively cool climates - even though we're presently spending the Winter in Florida. I normally drive about 60 mph - but I've spent many hours at 65-70 without noticing any real difference in tire temperatures. I've been towing trailers for most of my adult life and, to date (---at the tender young age of 65!) I've never experienced a tire blow out! I hope that my luck continues as, aside from any and all precautions you take, it can still happen!

[airstreamer01]

I wonder if this 2004 axle recall may play into your problem? If these axles have a problem, those tire could have heated up past designed temp. There are many variables that do need to be looked at. The great thing about this site is the input of many open our minds up to thoughts we may not of come up with on our own. We can not over look the possiblity on a common thread possibly. Tire pressure monitors have been on my mind, on both our flate tires we felt nothing in the truck. The first we found as we pulled up to camping area. The second a passing motorist brought our attention too. Nether incident produced body damage. The couple we meet from Colorado did experince damage that a believe the dealer back home addressed. After his second flate I believe a Goodyear dealer changed all his tires because he was aware of a tire problem. I'm not sure this type of backing would be found in smaller tire companies, and Goodyear is a Nation or world wide player, with great support coverage. For me this is reassuring. I realize we are seeing our share of concerns in problems with our newer units. However as a business person in the plumbing industry we see more defective products from major players in the last ten years then we ever did before. The manufactures try to keep cost down to remain competive only to find ill side effects down the rode. The one thing I do know as an Airstream believer, we are in a group of speical folks and yet to meet an Airstream person who did not seem to be part of a special family.

[airstreamer01]

Dear Cracker,
I too check for irregularites in tire temp. I was told those "C" rated tires are incorrect for the 30' classic. I would investigate it before its a problem, and that the thought of just being lucky may not be fun on your next trip. May be your climite subjects your to cooler road surfaces, who knows??? Be safe investigate now.

[gklott]

The two tires that blew are Goodyear Marathons, DOT PDHH ML0R 1703 ST 225/75R15 Load range D. The other two are the same.

The Spare is the only diffefrent DOT number - ending 1503.

Can't find anything on Goodyear site about Marathon recall for these DOT numbers.

73/gus

[Tin Hut]

Last weekend I ran over an upturned rake in the road pulling my CCD. Thought I had missed it but about 5 minutes later the Pressure Pro remote tire sensor started beeping. Pulled over and saw a slit in the side wall that was slowly leaking air. I'm now thankful I purchased the system & I'd sure recommend something to alert one of a tire problem rather than waiting for smoke, another driver or more damage to occur. I bought the sensors for all 4 trailer tires as well as for my Suburban. They alarm if PSI changes by 12 or 14% in any tire.

[gklott]

We've had two bearing re-packs - Dec 2003 and Nov 2004 (done under recall notice).

Is there something common between the curb rear and street front tires - maybe like brake circuits? Brakes felt right, indicators on Prodigy brake unit normal, run with no brake boost, and we didn't see any smoke.

We had N Dallas RV check the brakes last time in, and they said we were in good shape.

73/gus

[scf31]

Tin Hut,What is the price or the leak detecters,I have not heard or them,they sound like a must have,Scott

[gklott]

Doran pressure pro sounds like a great deal after this experience. $529 seems to be the price for an 8-wheel sensor and control unit. Bit pricy, but after what we experienced...

Thanks for the advice.

73/gus

[AirHog]

Reading the story about the blown tires, I now think I have a problem. This past fall (from a local junk yard- $40 total cost) , I got 4 tires (on rims) that fit the AS. My thought was to store our AS for the winter, on the old rim/tire and not to have any flat spot on the original tires. But, I forgot to mark the orginal tires/rims (front- right etc). We have approx. 2000 miles on the tires. Will it be a problem when I remove the old and put the original tire/rim, not knowing their original locations. I plan to have them balanced prior to installation. Any word or comfort will be appreciated.

PS: I just hope my wife does not read this post. Another bone head mistake.

Regards.

Titu

[gklott]

Got new "Pro" gauge. Checked remaining tire pressures - cold since the trailer has been sitting all day. Two were 65, and one was 66. All now at 64.

To check out a tire recall, use:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm

According to the DOT tire code, my tires were all made during the 17th week, 2003, (i.e., 1703). That's April 20-26, 2003. Received Classic from A/S dealer on July 16.

73/gus

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by gklott

The Spare is the only diffefrent DOT number - ending 1503.

73/gus

Your spare was made in the 15th week of 2003.
That is how you can track the age of your tires, for preventive replacement

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Titu & Gail Ahmed

But, I forgot to mark the orginal tires/rims (front- right etc). We have approx. 2000 miles on the tires. Will it be a problem when I remove the old and put the original tire/rim, not knowing their original locations. I plan to have them balanced prior to installation. Any word or comfort will be appreciated.

PS: I just hope my wife does not read this post. Another bone head mistake.

Regards.

Titu

Titu, I may be able to save your bacon. Take the palm of your hand, and run it along the tread, like the tire is rolling across your hand. If you run your hand one way, you will feel tiny ridges catching your hand, the other way you won't. the way the ridges catch you hand is the direction the tire turned while on your trailer. Do the same thing on your car, you will feel the same thing. Then put the tires back on so the little ridges are on the same way as the little ridges on the tires of your car, that is, all rotating so the ridges rotate in the same way. You will look like a genius, and Gail will never know...unless she reads this thread...

[Orland Dewey]

Hello out their.

I have not read a single item about a tire thats running to HOT. I am
willing to bet that is the problem. Just because the gage says 60 or
65 PSI doesn't mean the tire is inflated enough to keep the side walls from
flexing. Check the maximum pressure on the side wall. after setting the tire
pressure drive a few miles 20 to 30 miles and check the tire for HEAT build
up. If it feels hot your pressure is too low! If your at the max pressure
by the tire specs.,than you have to get a heavier rated tire. 27,000 miles
sounds like a lot of miles to me.

Hope this gives you some more ideas to think about.

Thanks for the soap box.. Hi Roger

ODD

[Cracker]

Originally Posted by airstreamer01

Dear Cracker,
I too check for irregularites in tire temp. I was told those "C" rated tires are incorrect for the 30' classic. I would investigate it before its a problem, and that the thought of just being lucky may not be fun on your next trip. May be your climite subjects your to cooler road surfaces, who knows??? Be safe investigate now.

Airstreamer01:

"Luck" is the one thing that you can't factor out of the equation!

Per the manual the "C-rated" Goodyear Marathons are correct for the 2000 Excella 1000. I checked when I purchased my spare tire and rim. Somewhere along the way, and after 2000, Airstream switched to a higher rated axle, and "D-rated" Goodyear Marathons, to achieve another 500 lbs CCC. I'm beginning to wonder if the slightly heavier construction of the "D-rated" tires might be a factor in heat build-up - or other maladies.

Another factor I didn't mention previously is that, with the rear axle capacity of the GMC dually, I only load the 1,000 lb rated equalizer bars very lightly - and not to the degree necessary to re-load the front axle. The dead-load capacity of the GMC hitch (1000 lbs) almost matches the measured tongue weight of the trailer (---using a Sherline tongue scale) and the truck certainly doesn't mind the load. The front axle only unloads about 300 pounds when I hook up the trailer - and the truck still sits tail end high! That said, I'm definitely not transferring much weight to the trailer axles through the hitch and my measured weights, loaded and hitched, are all well within allowables. The light load on the equalizer bars seems to make the trailer ride a lot more comfortably - with respect to the stiff suspension of the dually.

Additionally, I don't use any form of sway control. For the engineering types that like this kind of stuff, is it possible that a very effective sway control would create additional side loading on the trailer tires - and increase the heat build up??? I'm not promoting this theory - but I think it's an interesting question to toss around the campfire.

[87MH]

I'm surprised no has mentioned this possibility - valve stems.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ht=valve+stems


From gklott's (Gus's) pics at the beginning of this thread it looks as if the valve stems on his failed tires are still in place, and might even be the metal type(?).

Maybe Gus could confirm.

I lost both of the tires (brand new) on the driver side (dually) on the one ton Ford last year. In hindsight, I am sure it was valve stem related - the Ford specs call for metal nut type valve stems - none of the local boys had the metal stems - had to buy them from the NAPA store - amazing - the local tire stores claimed they had never heard there was a problem utilizing the rubber stems.

And people wonder why I am so anal about doing things myself.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by gklott

Today, we had the scare of our life. About 250 miles from home, we felt a vibration. I noticed rubber coming from the street side. Turns out the entire front street tire came apart. The outer tread came completely off, separating from the side walls. It caused only minimal damage to the molding. Tire was original equipment.

73/gus

Just curious, what was the outside air temperature and what was the speed that you were traveling prior to the failure?

There are actually two factors which affect the weight capacity of a tire. Unfortunately a standard inflation chart fails to note this. First is the cold air pressure in the tire. The lower the pressure the lower the weight capacity. The other issue is speed. All tires reach a point at which exceeding a certain speed results in a lowering of weight carrying capacity. A good example of this is in the instructions for towing when you have lost one of the tandem axle tires. The instructions note for you to travel at a reduced speed. I think its 45 or 50 mph. Why? Because when you travel at the reduced speed the tire's weight rating is actually higher than its rated capacity on the sidewall. (escentially the tire runs cooler at the lower speed)

BTW, Gus I'm not implying that you were driving too fast. I just wanted to make a point that inflation pressure isn't the only factor to consider when dealing with tires. The fact you lost two tires makes me wonder what the rotation was? I have heard the same thing about belts and you do want to keep rotation in the same direction. Based on Goodyear's inflation chart those 4 combined tires have a maximum load capacity of just over 10,000 lbs. I doubt you were overloaded.

[gklott]

We're lucky. After removing all the tires, we had another one about to separate.

Picture 1 (badtire4) is the spare. Note the left most grove - narrow. Picture 2 (badtire3) is the one about to separate. Not the left most grove is wider - rubber inside is rough - and other treads are irregularly spaced.

According to the tire tech at Camping World, uneven or widening tire groves is a clear sign to stop and replace immediately. We did not notice it. Neither did North Dallas RV when they aligned, rotated, balanced, and did the recall.

Valve stems are metal, and all are in place. We had a valve (not the stem) fail during our first trip to CA in Aug 2003.

Jack - excellent questions. Glad folks are asking questions like yours so we can discuss.

First blow was street front. Second blow was curb rear. Bad tire 3 was curb front.

On the weight - the one time we weighed it, loaded with full water, empty gray and black, full propane, and personal, we were well below the max. I'll have to look up the actual when I get home. This time, we had minimal weight. I want to say about 8900. We will weigh it again in normal mode before we depart again.

On the speed, first blow out was between 70-75 in West Texas on I-10. Second was at 65-70 in I-10 in New Mexico between El Paso and Las Cruces. Outside temps were in 60's.

Each morning we read pressure and have kept it between 62 and 65 psi cold. Manual says 65.

We towed approximately 20-25k miles, mostly on interstates traveling the speed limit.

More to follow.

73/gus

[gklott]

Below is a close up of the grove on the tire about to separate - bad tire 3.

We are at the new CampingWorld in El Paso. We're replacing all the tires at $119 each complete - installed, balances, stems, etc - out the door - another set of Goodyear Marathon ST255/75R15 - load range D - just as we had before.

The tech also said normally the tires hsould have lasted 5 years. The 25k miles, even at interstate speeds, should not have caused this type of degrading. He had no real answer for it. Said this is really unusual since the tread wear wasn;t a real indicator of a gross alignment problem, out of balance, or brake lock up.

We know what to watch for from now on.

Has anyone else seen this?

73/gus

[jcanavera]

Gus, since you have one tire unblown it may be worth the effort to get this to a Goodyear dealer and have them check this out. You might be able to recoup some $$. You also might also consider contacting Goodyear Corprate and see if they can deal with this. Here is a link to someone who may give you some help.

http://www.goodyear.com/cgi-bin/mail...il/mailto.html

Regards,

Jack

[Silvertwinkie]

Just as a reference for all, take a look at this link:

http://www.michelintruck.com/micheli...application=RV

It has some great info in the form of PDFs on care, maint, etc. There is also a streamed video on demand avail.

Granted for some, this is something you might already know, but to other folks newer to RVing, this has some great info on tires. I thought I had a great deal of knowledge and still found a few things that I didn't know.

Safe travels.