Is floor frame construction method same for both Silver Streak and Avion?

[Tony S]

Hi folks, Another question. An old post by REDNAX in a thread titled Silver Streak vs Airstream explain, “the S/S is not significantly heavier but is constructed on an absolutely super frame, not semi-moncocque like the A/S. All appliances (furnace, water heater, pump, etc) are mounted on the sub-floor and easily accessed by doors or false panels from the interior. Same for the fresh water tank. The trailer is .032 double-wall with 2" insulation in walls and roof, the floor is 4" insulated and 4" dead-air space between skins.

The subfloor is NOT a structural piece so you have no frame sag or separation problems as with A/S. My folks had their S/S for nearly 30-years, and beyond replacing appliances as they wore, or carpeting, the maintenance costs were minimal. Repairs were easily handled by more than one tech who simply wouldn't work on an old Airstream due to the problems of accessing appliances, lines, etc. There isn't anything you can't access in only seconds if need be.”

Can the above also be said about Avions? Also could some one explain what is the advantage of a semi=moncocque of the Airstreams if any. Is a super frame mean the walls are built on the frame like walls on the floor system of a house?

Thanks in Advance Tony

[Ganaraska]

Those who have owned both say the Avion is better built than an Airstream and Silver Streak is better built than Avion.

In the Airstream construction system the aluminum body is built on a plywood or chipboard floor then the floor is bolted to the frame. In other words the floor is the only thing holding the body to the frame, if it rots out there is nothing holding the body and frame together. If you have to replace the floor you have to support the body while you do it.

In Avion and Silver Streak construction the body is built on the frame and the floor is not a structural member.

The advantage of the Airstream system is supposedly light weight. But today's trailers have grown so heavy with all the conveniences that have been added since the 30s, that the weight difference is negligible.

Airstreams need to be handled carefully. They can be damaged by rough towing conditions. A too stiff hitch system can damage them even on ordinary roads. The back of the frame and body can sag especially if you mount anything on the back bumper, such as a bicycle rack.

The only knock I have heard against Silver Streak is that they have dark wood interiors and smaller windows than an Airstream and some people find them gloomy and cave like inside.

[Jammer]

It is also my understanding that the Avion and Silver Streak trailers sit a little higher due to the increased floor depth.

[hampstead38]

We looked at a wonderful '62 Avion before we bought the Airstream. The '67 Overlander had better head room, better natural light and it seemed a better fit for our project.

Having gutted the interior of the Airstream, I can say that some of the appliances were not exactly "maintenance friendly." One of my goals on the renovation is to improve access to mechanical systems. I'm not cutting access panels in the exterior, but I am doing the interior with access in mind.

One of the advantages of Airstream I considered was the availability of parts. While we're replacing much of the interior, there are still things like window assemblies, door assemblies, etc. Sure, the floor rot/separation issue is valid, but on our Overlander, 90 percent of the floor was solid. The rot was very localized around the door, frig vent and rear bath. The carpet didn't help matters nor did the P.O. letting it sit for a decade.

You can make an AS rock solid. Look at what Boatdoc did. His frame will outlast the pyramids. I also think if you go into a renovation knowing where the weak points are, you can take steps to extend the life of the subfloor, e.g., sealing the wood, sealing the seams, checking spaces for water intrusions, etc.

[Ganaraska]

One other thing. Some models of Avion and Silver Streak are made of anodized aluminum. That means they will never corrode but it also makes them practically impossible to polish.

What's more the surface can get kind of scroungy looking after 40 or 50 years. The appearance can be spruced up by wiping down with WD40 or oil but it doesn't last long.

I don't know why you could not use some kind of wax to restore the appearance.

At least they don't have a clear coat to peel and look shabby.

[Kevin245]

The Cayo boys switched to anodized aluminum skins on Avions in the early 60's. Pre-anodized units will polish up similar to Airstreams.

Owning both Avion and Airstream I can say the big difference for me is the weight of the Avion compared to the Airstream. This translates to a solid feel and quieter trailer for us. I distinctly remember this sensation the first time I stepped into our 73. The extra weight is an impact when towing though so the Airstream wins there.

Kevin



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[Tony S]

Maybe the increase height is also due to a deeper frame on the Avions and Silver Streaks. It maybe heresy but I don't want a shinny exterior.

I do worry about part availability for any of the older coaches. Not to mention prices. Thanks Tony Rogue River Oregon

[Ganaraska]

Don't worry too much about parts. The more obscure and low production the trailer, the more likely every part was a standard off the shelf part or made by hand with tools you can find in your garage.

The more popular, high production, the more likely parts were made specifically for it and are no longer available, or made by a big machine and you can't duplicate them.

[slowmover]

The only knock I have heard against Silver Streak is that they have dark wood interiors and smaller windows than an Airstream and some people find them gloomy and cave like inside.

Model year dependent. 1975, yeah, 1978, no.

As to weight one must also compare year-by-year. A 1962 Any-Brand will be lighter than a 1985 Any-brand. (My 1983 34' SS is lighter than the current 28" A/S, substantially so).

As to light and visibility, it ought to be measured from a seated position . . haven't I see complaints around here in regards to glare, heat and such on A/S?

Sit awhile, and consider the view in an SS. With the front corner windows there is an un-interrupted eighteen feet of glass wrapping around the trailer front.

Forgive the stridency of that post of mine. Yes, the different construction via design lends integrity that really shows up after long use. I believe you are less likely to find a leaking Streamline, S/S or Avion versus Airstream given same use and care. And, that it take less to make one road-ready versus an A/S (lower initial price and less work needed given a good specimen), and shell separation, filiform corrosion and some other problems are pretty much A/S exclusives. (but A/S problems and fixes are known). No one has to worry about hanging a bike rack off the back of an SS or Avion that I know of.

These others have a true double hull, all the way around. In a manner of speaking, there is no "belly pan" as is referred to A/S around here. There are still an inner and outer hull, so the floor (and tanks) have excellent insulation.

The floor is slid into the walls a ways. It adds structural support (it isn't floating) but it is NOT part of the structure as with A/S.

These two things: structural floor and low ground clearance (reduced height) are the Airstream advantage exclusive of suspension changes.

The others are now "orphan" trailers: no factory, no dealers and no salvage yards full of replacement parts.

That said, the systems in all these trailers tend to use the same parts so replacement appliances and all are the same. The differences show up in contemplating exterior skin repair. The panels are long, heavy, and of 5005 anodized which may not be feasible, ever. Expect patching. (The panels on my 34' were over 30' long, top & sides).

But unlike 2024 it won't warp if stared at.

Essentially, cheaper to buy, less to fix and the exclusivity of never seeing yourself go down the road.

As to aerodynamics, yes, Airstream should be better given close matchups, so I'd like to see some comparison as it would be interesting. No, the real road performance difference in any of these trailers has to do with low COG, weight-balance F/R and side-to-side, and most importantly, independent suspension once reliability has been established. With sway-eliminating hitch and disc brakes they are all better than the SOB's. (There are brand-specific, and model-year differences per brand in suspensions in all these trailers; live axle, as SS used only, being the least desirable from the standpoint of road performance).

I have posted in other threads that I find it unfortunate that the great built-in advantage of Airstream isn't followed up: improve the frame, get the weight down, and really step back into Wally's shoes.

.

[TXiceman]

Not all Silver streaks have dark wood interiors. Ours (1979) has light wood from the factory...

The SS and Avion do have heavier construction on the frmaes and the floors ar not a structural part of the unit.

Ken

[Ranch2go]

Are the roof structures the same on the Avion, SS & AS.
I understand it best to stay on the rivets and access the roof from the awning side of the trailer as it is beefed up. I need to clean and change roof vent covers and the plumbing vents need to be replaced.

[TXiceman]

When on the roof, I use 2 or 3 pieces of plywood that are 2' x 3' for support.

[SilverHoot]

My first silver trailer was a 1963 Silver Streak Sabre Cat and the interior was very light 'pickled finish'. Additionally the construction of mine was just about identical to my 1967 Airstream as far as how the shell was attached to the floor. The frame was definitely more robust in the SS.

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by Ranch2go

Are the roof structures the same on the Avion, SS & AS.
I understand it best to stay on the rivets and access the roof from the awning side of the trailer as it is beefed up. I need to clean and change roof vent covers and the plumbing vents need to be replaced.

I can't answer for the SS but we access our Avion and Airstream roofs the same way. There are a few cardinal rules:

Stay off the end caps.

Stay on the ribs.

Wear soft soled shoes.

Use a board(s) to distribute loads if you're going to be stationary (kneeling, sitting) for a while.

Take your time and move slowly.

Best of luck,

Kevin

[slowmover]

I walked around the roof of mine on whatever job was necessary.. Better to have gripping shoes and to crawl (roof can be slippery). The roof isn't at all weak. I don't understand the concern expressed by so many. You could park a dozen people up there with no worry.

[M2HB]

Does anyone have a picture of a stripped Avion or SS frame?

[SSSabre]

Here's a pic of my 1970 Silver Streak Sabre frame.

[M2HB]

Originally Posted by SSSabre

Here's a pic of my 1970 Silver Streak Sabre frame.

That certainly looks stronger than an AS frame. Is that structural channel that they used for the main frame rails?

[SSSabre]

Yes, the main frame rails are structural C channel. The channel profile is identical to the attached pic.

[TXiceman]

Our 1979 SS had 2 x 6 box structural frame rales and was solid as a rock. Out 1989 Avion 34V also had 2 x 6 box section main rains and a 2 x 3 box section subframe that the suspension was mounted on. Any engineer can tell you that a 2 x 6 box section is stronget than a 2 x 6 C channel.

The floor on the Avion was a composit, about 2" thickc with plywood on the bottom, a foam core and plywood on top. Made for a nice solid feeling floor.

The walls on the Avion were spray foam filled before the inner skin was added. This made for a quiter and better insulated trailer than either A/S of SS.

I have never owned an A/S, but from the SS and the Avion, I would take an Avion over the SS any day. The long triaxle trailers may be heavier, but they pull like a dream.

With the solid construction and frame, you will see far fewer leak problems with the SS and Avions.

Ken