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Old 08-10-2012, 04:25 PM   #1
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1990 Avion 5th Wheel

Hello guys.
this aluminum illness is driving us crazy!!
We just got a phone call and a crazy offer.
a 1990 Avion 5th wheel 38ft for 3K. The title is not clear due hail damage was totaled by insurance (so salvage title)
Here are some pics.
We looked inside and no signs of water damage, obviously no way to test the 110v or 12 v but we went crazy. that thing is huge! and the slide out....
Just wondering if any Avion fans and owners can give us an input on this one.
BTW can these be polished?
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:28 PM   #2
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found this about specs.
2 13.5 AC units lead us to a 50Amp?
is that slide out electric o manual?
don't even know what to look for....to excited!
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:28 AM   #3
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Very Rare!

Hi Veggiebullet,

These trailers are extremely rare. I have never seen a real one. I'd like to though... On the Avion boards, these things are almost mythical.

Avion took their 34' triple axle travel trailer (like mine) and basically converted the front of it into a fifth wheel. The travel trailer already had a beefy frame, so they basically just welded onto that to make the overhang portion and there it was.

Basically, everthing that would be said about the 34' travel trailer would apply to this one. You'd get the three 6" main frame rails, the 8" suspension frame, the annodized aluminum shell that you can polish, but it will not shine up to a mirror finish like an Airstream (Airstreams are alclad, not annodized....the old Avions were alclad and you could shine them up like a mirror but they went to annodizing in the early to mid 60's). Annodized is a protective treatment to prevent corrosion. It typically works pretty well. But you lose the "super shine" of bare aluminum.

Being a 1990, it would have the rubber torsion axles like Airstream uses. 1988 was the last year for leaf springs and swing arms. As such, it will need new axles soon, if not already.

If you can find a way to title it so you can use it, that is a screaming deal if the only thing wrong with it is hail damage, and you can live with it.

My trailer came out of FL originally, and it's got some hail dents on the tops of both end caps. There's basically nothing you can do about it short of replacing the panels, and that can be a huge undertaking. So I'd make sure you were OK with them.

Beyond that, just check the normal stuff like evidence of water damage to the floor that would indicate leaks, make sure the plumbing is OK, etc.

One trick on Avions is with all the little cargo doors around the bottom, open up every one and check the plywood floor from inside the compartment. If it's OK all the way around, you're in good shape. Check the wooden floor especially closely around the door.

I am not sure on the slide. I'd go on the silveravion forums and ask those guys. Maybe somebody on there has one, but I don't recall ever chatting with anybody on there who did. They are a very rare unit.

If all this is good, you've found yourself a real gem, and would be the star of any Avion rally

Best of luck,
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:05 AM   #4
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That surely is a beautiful and unique trailer! Is is somewhat similiar to my 1989 32S. I have not seen one in real life however, it appears to be very well built. It is also a very heavy trailer, so take extreme care and caution when towing. If you purchase it you'll be glad to know that many of the parts can be found at a good local hardware store! If you don't purchase it, let me know so I can purchase it and go to the local hardware store for parts.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:34 AM   #5
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Hello guys
Just came for checking the trailer. This is very unusual, but I see i water damage in the paperwork.
No signs anywhere of water damage nor leaks, floor is solid and the only smell is the old carpet!
No soft spots in the floor anywhere, but since is in an auction there is no way to test the 110V/12V of plumbing.
A compartment door is missing but other than that it seems fine.
Noticed that there is a huge front compartment door in the front near the coupler pin (5th wheel) tat it seems Generator ready.
Here are some pics
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:39 AM   #6
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more pics....I think we will max out our quota with this ..
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:57 AM   #7
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ok so no signs of water damage inside, Fridge lp plug was disconnected (so worse case scenario new fridge).
Now few questions:
1) based on the 2 ac units should this be a 50Amp? BTW I could find the shore power cord nor the distribution panel for 110V or 12V.
2) Can we find a compartment door ?
3) Can't find a manual repair online for this model. We are a kind of concern about the slide out.
4) no cracks on the front or rear caps. What kind of roof does it has? is it all aluminum?
5) Was reading all night about it and everyone is saying that the 1989 and 1990 CAN NOT BE POLISHED AT ALL since these were the only 2 year that they had the Electro- Coated. so can we still do something about it?
6) We found that the structure is aluminum+foam insulation+aluminum???
So basically no worries what so ever about mildew? and only possible damage due water could be on the floors and subfloors?
Thanks again guys.
We are so excited about the big whale since we will be fulltiming on it, there is so much room for solar panels in the roof!!!
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:39 PM   #8
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1989-90 models are Electro-Coated (anodized by Electricity rather than an electric charged chemical bath) Generally you see this called E-coated (for Electro-Coated Anodizing).
So not sure how much can be polished..
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #9
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the Whale

Its so cool to see this,thank you for adding all the photos !

If you want to add more I wont complain ; )

Also,we need to find out how many of these were built.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:28 PM   #10
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Its so cool to see this,thank you for adding all the photos !

If you want to add more I wont complain ; )

Also,we need to find out how many of these were built.
Isn't it real cool? we felt in love when we saw the pics and the price is crazy! The salvage title sucks
We are trying to get info about the electric/plumbing/ slide out functioning etc and is really hard.
Not much info out there even on silver avion there is almost nothing about the whale.
BTW if we get it ....trust me a lot more pics are on the way!
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #11
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BTW Airline what is your input about polishing anodized aluminum? I'm looking in a thread here and it looks possible..
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:44 PM   #12
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Polishing,I think would,require removing the coating on the aluminum,an epic job at least.

I would not do it,I just washed and used ParFe on my '87 32S,and that stuff really makes the aluminum look great.

Just clean and Parfe for now,get new tires,make all the stuff work,and maybe after its "primo" and you have nothing better to do,Polish it.

The front wont be polished tho,Its fiberglass no ?
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:52 PM   #13
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Polishing,I think would,require removing the coating on the aluminum,an epic job at least.

I would not do it,I just washed and used ParFe on my '87 32S,and that stuff really makes the aluminum look great.

Just clean and Parfe for now,get new tires,make all the stuff work,and maybe after its "primo" and you have nothing better to do,Polish it.

The front wont be polished tho,Its fiberglass no ?
We are reading about de-anodizing the trailer and we see that a lots of NOOOOOO no way, will ruin the aluminum and the structure....and then we found this
please take a look at the posts #2 and #14 I can't imagine the "shinny whale"
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f441...ect-78246.html

For now we will follow your advice on just getting everything to work and in the mean time trying to make it decent looking.
But no idea where to get some literature....is getting a little frustrating...
Did you get any major repairs on yours?
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:44 PM   #14
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Electrocoat is not the same as the anodization found on earlier models IIRC. Either way I would never consider removing it. One will not be able to get in/around rivets (but the caustic used will), and any seams are also at risk.

Instead, I'd start by consulting with the folks at EACO Chem about their product, OneRestore. And maybe use SharkHide afterwards. Too much sheetmetal to do otherwise than a simple plan (as any plan involves a really impressive amount of annual hours of work).

Replacement of axles, upsized wheels/tires and disc brake conversion ought to be the concern, IMO. This should be a good full-timing unit beyond insurability. GVWR is around 14k, IIRC, and a DRW 1T longbed pickup would be ideal.

I'd start with the easy stuff: . The tail-lights are mounted low and do not stand out (especially in todays traffic). A "greyish" vehicle sort of disappears against some background color and in some light. So I'd also add (as I will with my next trailer) some additional signal lamps on the rear, possibly on the sides. LEDs make this easy (as proven by a thousand big trucks now running too many "chicken lights").

Same for towing electrics, chains, etc. Some time spent investigating 5'er hitches will pay off as there is a wide selection (including air bag suspended).

Be sure to have a look at Dr. Gradeless site for brochure info, etc, and the YAHOO Owners Group.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:17 PM   #15
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First will like to thank to the Moderator that fixed the double posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Electrocoat is not the same as the anodization found on earlier models IIRC. Either way I would never consider removing it. One will not be able to get in/around rivets (but the caustic used will), and any seams are also at risk.
We are still trying to find and understand the difference, and dreaming about the "big shinny whale".

Instead, I'd start by consulting with the folks at EACO Chem about their product, OneRestore. And maybe use SharkHide afterwards.
Wow interesting products...do you have any experience with them?

Replacement of axles, upsized wheels/tires and disc brake conversion ought to be the concern, IMO. GVWR is around 14k, IIRC, and a DRW 1T longbed pickup would be ideal.
The GVWR is 15K and the GVW is almost 10K so is a heavy unit.
Yes we will double check the condition of the running gear but not sure if will need the disc brakes upgrade.
I towed a 3 car hauler with a 1 ton truck and it was a triple axle with drum brakes on it and when adjusted properly I was grossing 27K with 3 SUVs on it and had a great control of the combination...a little too much but it was safe...got pulled over by DOT and no tickets..
But I was always intrigued by the disc brakes on trailers.
This should be a good full-timing unit beyond insurability.
That is something that is a real concern, can we get it registered? how will the insurance works?

I'd start with the easy stuff: . The tail-lights are mounted low and do not stand out (especially in todays traffic). A "greyish" vehicle sort of disappears against some background color and in some light. So I'd also add (as I will with my next trailer) some additional signal lamps on the rear, possibly on the sides. LEDs make this easy (as proven by a thousand big trucks now running too many "chicken lights").
Love bright leds...

Same for towing electrics, chains, etc. Some time spent investigating 5'er hitches will pay off as there is a wide selection (including air bag suspended).
All my heavy duty towing live was done with a gooseneck set up. No complains at all. I know that there is an adaptor for 5th wheel to gooseneck but I'm not sure...

Be sure to have a look at Dr. Gradeless site for brochure info, etc, and the YAHOO Owners Group.

got the brochure and can't find any repair manual for that particular model and the functionality of the slide out is a major concern...any ideas?
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
First will like to thank to the Moderator that fixed the double posting.



[/I]
got the brochure and can't find any repair manual for that particular model and the functionality of the slide out is a major concern...any ideas?
Maybe you can find the prior owner.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:07 AM   #17
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REDNAX
don’t know what happened but my answer got all mixed up with yours, so here we go, you should be on Italics and our answer right after.

Electrocoat is not the same as the anodization found on earlier models IIRC. Either way I would never consider removing it. One will not be able to get in/around rivets (but the caustic used will), and any seams are also at risk.
We are still trying to find and understand the difference, and dreaming about the "big shinny whale".

Instead, I'd start by consulting with the folks at EACO Chem about their product, OneRestore. And maybe use SharkHide afterwards.
Wow interesting products...do you have any experience with them?

Replacement of axles, upsized wheels/tires and disc brake conversion ought to be the concern, IMO. GVWR is around 14k, IIRC, and a DRW 1T longbed pickup would be ideal.
The GVWR is 15K and the GVW is almost 10K so is a heavy unit.
Yes we will double check the condition of the running gear but not sure if will need the disc brakes upgrade.
I towed a 3 car hauler with a 1 ton truck and it was a triple axle with drum brakes on it and when adjusted properly I was grossing 27K with 3 SUVs on it and had a great control of the combination...a little too much but it was safe...got pulled over by DOT and no tickets..
But I was always intrigued by the disc brakes on trailers.
This should be a good full-timing unit beyond insurability.
That is something that is a real concern, can we get it registered? how will the insurance works?

I'd start with the easy stuff: . The tail-lights are mounted low and do not stand out (especially in todays traffic). A "greyish" vehicle sort of disappears against some background color and in some light. So I'd also add (as I will with my next trailer) some additional signal lamps on the rear, possibly on the sides. LEDs make this easy (as proven by a thousand big trucks now running too many "chicken lights").
Love bright leds...will love to retrofit the existing one with led but don’t really like just upgrading the lightbulb.

Same for towing electrics, chains, etc. Some time spent investigating 5'er hitches will pay off as there is a wide selection (including air bag suspended).
All my heavy duty towing live was done with a gooseneck set up. No complains at all. I know that there is an adaptor for 5th wheel to gooseneck but I'm not sure...

RCARL
Will love to find the PO but we will be getting a bill of sale from the insurance company so not sure how to hire a detective..
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:25 PM   #18
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REDNAX
don’t know what happened but my answer got all mixed up with yours, so here we go, you should be on Italics and our answer right after.

Electrocoat is not the same as the anodization found on earlier models IIRC. Either way I would never consider removing it. One will not be able to get in/around rivets (but the caustic used will), and any seams are also at risk.
We are still trying to find and understand the difference, and dreaming about the "big shinny whale".

Instead, I'd start by consulting with the folks at EACO Chem about their product, OneRestore. And maybe use SharkHide afterwards.
Wow interesting products...do you have any experience with them?


With EACO Chem products, yes, with the one recommended: not yet. The other product I find appealing (as compared to EVERBRITE, etc) is that it can be re-applied over existing coverage without removal (a "requirement" to my way of thinking. TT's this size are over 1,000 s/f of aluminum, top, bottom and sides.)

Replacement of axles, upsized wheels/tires and disc brake conversion ought to be the concern, IMO. GVWR is around 14k, IIRC, and a DRW 1T longbed pickup would be ideal.
The GVWR is 15K and the GVW is almost 10K so is a heavy unit.
Yes we will double check the condition of the running gear but not sure if will need the disc brakes upgrade.
I towed a 3 car hauler with a 1 ton truck and it was a triple axle with drum brakes on it and when adjusted properly I was grossing 27K with 3 SUVs on it and had a great control of the combination...a little too much but it was safe...got pulled over by DOT and no tickets..
But I was always intrigued by the disc brakes on trailers.
This should be a good full-timing unit beyond insurability.


[COLOR="rgb(244, 164, 96)"]Trailer brakes stop the trailer. Inadequate trailer brakes (drums) place an inordinate strain on the TV. Bad mojo in the hills. Or in wet weather. Best brakes are cheap (even with six of them). The goal is to be able to stop in as short a distance as the TV, solo. The TV (if diesel) should also have an exhaust brake (D-Celerator or PacBrake if not factory equipped).

I ran hotshot in the oilfield with heavier trailers/loads behind 1T trucks . . drum brakes are barely okay. As a fulltimer I'd expect you to have a higher bar of performance for the safety of you, your family and your possessions. The test comes once. Failed, we all console you with the idea that insurance will replace all and that we're glad things aren't any worse. (Whoops, that insurance problem).

Read the DIRECLINK threads, and on trailer anti-lock brakes. Disc brakes on all axles of both vehicles ought to be a minimum.



That is something that is a real concern, can we get it registered? how will the insurance works?

I'd start with the easy stuff: . The tail-lights are mounted low and do not stand out (especially in todays traffic). A "greyish" vehicle sort of disappears against some background color and in some light. So I'd also add (as I will with my next trailer) some additional signal lamps on the rear, possibly on the sides. LEDs make this easy (as proven by a thousand big trucks now running too many "chicken lights").
Love bright leds...will love to retrofit the existing one with led but don’t really like just upgrading the lightbulb.

[COLOR="rgb(244, 164, 96)"]Truck catalogs have quite a bit, but don't be surprised that one may have to cut & fit new fixtures to have (as you note) proper lighting fixtures. I would add: both high and low on trailer backside.

Stick with all the "roadability" issues first. The budget will take a hit, but it is one that is never regrettable.
[/COLOR]


Same for towing electrics, chains, etc. Some time spent investigating 5'er hitches will pay off as there is a wide selection (including air bag suspended).
All my heavy duty towing live was done with a gooseneck set up. No complains at all. I know that there is an adaptor for 5th wheel to gooseneck but I'm not sure...
[/COLOR]

RCARL
Will love to find the PO but we will be getting a bill of sale from the insurance company so not sure how to hire a detective..
[COLOR="rgb(244, 164, 96)"]Adaptors to GN are a bad idea for a 5'er trailer. Plenty of reading over on RV.net among other places. Plus, the 5'er hitch is more stable (less rocking) than a GN anyway. Expect that a very good hitch is not cheap. Were I not moving about constantly (to be in your shoes) I'd start with a B&W Companion as it is a combination GN/5'er hitch with very high consensus rating of quality.

Insurability? Your guess as good as mine. I'd have to consider what was aboard was essentially disposable as with the TT unless someone chimes in with experience in policies that protect contents.
[/COLOR]
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:03 PM   #19
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Gosh! You're in Tampa? I'd LOVE to see this beast. I've always wondered why Airstream has never attempted a 5'r. Avion showed them the way, just never seemed to follow.

If you are able to purchase your dream, I'd love to be able to come see it sometime.

Thanks, Derek
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:55 PM   #20
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Gosh! You're in Tampa? I'd LOVE to see this beast. I've always wondered why Airstream has never attempted a 5'r. Avion showed them the way, just never seemed to follow.

If you are able to purchase your dream, I'd love to be able to come see it sometime.

Thanks, Derek
Airstream did build 5vers, they were fiberglass and of a good quality. Not aluminum unfortunately. The last of the Avions were fiberglass too.

Aaron
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Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
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