I need/want a new camera.

[Airtandem]

oops: I forgot, it takes movies with sound also

[Kamiak]

Robertsunus,

In my earlier response, I meant to comment on batteries, but I forgot. That happened to me once before, forgetting, but I don't remember when it was.

Both of the older cameras that I mentioned use rechargeable batteries that I recharge before outings, and I've never had a problem with them. I do carry a backup, but I don't recall ever needing to change out in the field (there's that forgetting thing again). And I shoot mainly in manual mode and a lot of daylight flash with my little camera because my emphasis is our faces in a particular outdoor setting.

I don't know where you stand as a photographer, but Ken Rockwell has an interesting guide to help you calibrate where you fit. You can find a lot of information on his website at kenrockwell.com, including specific camera recommendations for particular purposes. Here's the link to his guide on where you might lie on the photographer scale. Seven Levels of Photographers © 2005 KenRockwell.com

You may find his insights helpful. Often times there's a tendency (for me) to become overly obsessed with arcane technical details, while sometimes forgetting the intended pupose of the camera (or anything), and the important "feel" and ease of use.

[JDS]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Re: the optics: this has to be examined per CAMERA, rather than just per brand, because for some cameras (including the one in question) Panasonic is using Leica lenses. There are a couple of Panasonic models that are actually rebranded Leica cameras all the way through.

I'm a Leica owner (M7) and believe it's the other way around - the Leica cameras & lenses referred to are in fact made by Panasonic. You have to move up the price scale a lot to get actual leica made bodies & lenses.

John S.

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by JDS

I'm a Leica owner (M7) and believe it's the other way around - the Leica cameras & lenses referred to are in fact made by Panasonic. You have to move up the price scale a lot to get actual leica made bodies & lenses.

John S.

Thanks for posting John. I remember a few years ago, Leica was re-branding Minolta point & shoots.

Of course, since then Minolta has dropped out of the camera business entirely. In that vein, Sony bought Minolta's DSLR so the Sony Alpha DSLRs will take Minolta lenses. In case anybody is interested.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by JDS

I'm a Leica owner (M7) and believe it's the other way around - the Leica cameras & lenses referred to are in fact made by Panasonic. You have to move up the price scale a lot to get actual leica made bodies & lenses.

John S.

Well, that makes sense from the price points. Is Leica at least contributing design expertise? Or just rebranding cheaper cameras for more volume?

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by Ahab

I prefer the Pentax "W" models. Takes HD movies and stills. Waterproof down to 40', crushproof and fits in your shirtpocket. A real rugged camera.

Ditto this. Pentax seems to be an oft overlooked brand.

[JDS]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Well, that makes sense from the price points. Is Leica at least contributing design expertise? Or just rebranding cheaper cameras for more volume?

I believe Leica is just "tweaking" the similar Panasonic model to be able to claim a difference, but the guts of the cameras, including the lenses, are similar between Leica & Panasonic.

John S.

[perryg114]

I prefer cameras that use standard AA batteries for a point and shoot. The proprietary Lithium batteries are a rip off. They got you as soon as you need a spare battery or your old one dies. They are around $50 each for these. Most SLR type cameras have the, one of a kind, lithium batteries. It is a trade off. Anyone who has tried to take action photos with a point and shoot knows about the lag between shutter press and the photo being taken. Really small cameras are more prone to shake and have more noise issues.

Perry

[valmog]

I have one other suggestion...have had this for a year and it's the best camera I've ever had! I have several Nikon DSLRs and have had many, many point and shoots over the years, but this little camera does it all and gets it right almost every time...

Fuji X100:
Here is what Ken Rockwell says about it:
Fuji X100

Takes a little getting used to, but once you get the hang of it, it's a powerful little camera!

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by perryg114

I prefer cameras that use standard AA batteries for a point and shoot. The proprietary Lithium batteries are a rip off. They got you as soon as you need a spare battery or your old one dies. They are around $50 each for these. Most SLR type cameras have the, one of a kind, lithium batteries. It is a trade off. Anyone who has tried to take action photos with a point and shoot knows about the lag between shutter press and the photo being taken. Really small cameras are more prone to shake and have more noise issues.

Perry

Just don't buy the branded batteries.

For my Olympus PEN, the Olympus batteries are about $48 a pop. On eBay I bought a PAIR of knockoffs that looks like they're the Olympus battery with a different label, $11 for the PAIR. So far they work perfectly. I'm rotating them through each discharge cycle (I marked the batteries to help me keep track) and I'll see if they last we well as the OEM. I suspect they're made in the same factory and sold through different channels.

[Aage]

I'm sure that in the long run, any of the cameras you have selected would do the job from a mechanical point of view.

But, two things continually push me back to Canon:

The natural colour balance that their cams always give me. I bought a Panasonic for my daughter on her birthday, and I don't like the results when compared to the photos I have taken using a number of Canons over the years. Skin tones are always spot on, for example.

The software interface is fast and easy to use, and easier to set up to do what you want it to when you download images to your computer. Mine is set to be all automatic from the minute I connect the cable. I haven't tried the cordless ones, so no idea how good they are.

My tiny little cam gives me fabulous detail, and excellent Hi-Defmovies, too.

[perryg114]

I have used the knockoffs and had them fail in less than a year. You get what you pay for. It is like Chinese tires some are good and some are not. Lithium batteries are more prone to shorting and then exploding. I have never heard of this with camera batteries but it happens a lot with cell phone Lithium batteries.

Perry

[redwoodguy]

Assuming you are not intending to become a professional photographer, or enter photography contests, or make extremely large poster sized prints, I offer the following advice.

1. The picture quality of any modern compact camera will be sufficient and made little difference to you.
2. What DOES matter is how easy the camera is to use. This is a function of the software menu system. And THIS is where cameras are really, very significantly different. EX: my wife and I both have $90 pocket cameras for casual use. Hers is nearly impossible to use because the menus are so bizarre and complicated she can never remember how to navigate them. Mine is far, far simpler. Pictures from each are identical. Ergo, she always grabs mine and we might as well toss hers in the rubbish.
3. Batteries. Unless you are filthy rich and can afford to throw the camera away when the "rechargeable" battery dies, you are better off with a camera that uses AA. EX: my wifes is rechargeable and that battery became useless in about a year. Mine uses AA and a pair of AA lasts about 800 pictures. I pay 25 cents ea. for AA.
4. The higher the zoom ratio, the worse the picture quality. This has to do with the physics of lens design. There is no free lunch. Zooms of 20X will be VERY slow lenses. Slow lenses limit the conditions under which you can get good pictures. All things equal, a fast f/2.8 lens is far preferable to a slow f/6 lens. And seriously, trying to hand hold a cameras zoomed out to 20X is pretty impossible.
5. Brands mean almost nothing at the low priced end. Low end cameras are built from off the shelf parts available to nearly every vendor. If you think your popular brand is going to be way better than a less known brand, you are mostly kidding yourself. In very high end cameras - yes, brands do make a diff. But not in cameras costing a couple hundred bucks.
6. Long lists of features are usually meaningless once you have the camera. On pocket cameras, nearly all pictures are taken on "AUTO". And they come out fine. More features means more settings which means more menus to wade through. If you dig that kind of stuff fine, but most people are annoyed by it. Keep it simple.
7. Don't get suckered by "megapixel" claims. Any camera over 6MP is just fine for snapshots and prints up to 8 x 10. Far more important than "how many mexapixels" is what the software algorithm is used for rendering JPGs inside the camera. That software is where 98% of the picture difference lies between cameras with the same MP. A 6MP camera with great software can often out perform a 12MP camera with crappy software.
8. Cameras with a viewfinder are WAY easier to use than cameras with only an LCD screen on back.

Good luck!

[perryg114]

Item 2. The cameras I have used (Canon) have a dial to go to the different modes. I rarely have to go into a menu to access anything. There is usually a button for the stuff you need.

Item 7. I agree. The high end cameras have a RAW mode that does not depend on jpg compression.

item 8. On the view finder issue. I have not seen a decent electronic view finder yet. View finders are great but they need to be optical. Screens are great when you are not in the sun or not trying to follow action.

[Aage]

Batteries:

I meant to say earlier that the rechargeable ones are expensive if the camera maker's name is on them, but ridiculously cheap for generic in online sales forums such as ebaY. I also find that the generics last equally as long as the OEM ones.

Also, from my point of view rechargeables have greatly improved life-spans now, both in terms of time between charges, and maximum charge cycles.

For example, I bought two batteries and a 12V auto charger (which works nicely in our AS) for around ten dollars with shipping by USPS. The link to an example is not the exact one I purchased, but similar.

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by Aage

Batteries:

I meant to say earlier that the rechargeable ones are expensive if the camera maker's name is on them, but ridiculously cheap for generic in online sales forums such as ebaY. I also find that the generics last equally as long as the OEM ones.

Also, from my point of view rechargeables have greatly improved life-spans now, both in terms of time between charges, and maximum charge cycles.

For example, I bought two batteries and a 12V auto charger (which works nicely in our AS) for around ten dollars with shipping by USPS. The link to an example is not the exact one I purchased, but similar.

Another reason I choose AA batteries over rechargeable is that I don't need to carry a charger, and cord. I carry an fresh pair inside the little camera case and essentially, I am good for any circumstance that may arise. AA batteries can be bought nearly anywhere.

But of course, everyone has a preference.

[sakthorp]

I own this camera as well. Had a Leica M9 and assorted lenses but sold my kit and got the X100. It's no rangefinder but it's a great little camera with a fairly large sensor and a fast lens. Full manual controls and very good image quality. Not for everyone but when I don't feel like hauling my DSLR gear it's perfect.

Originally Posted by valmog

I have one other suggestion...have had this for a year and it's the best camera I've ever had! I have several Nikon DSLRs and have had many, many point and shoots over the years, but this little camera does it all and gets it right almost every time...

Fuji X100:
Here is what Ken Rockwell says about it:
Fuji X100

Takes a little getting used to, but once you get the hang of it, it's a powerful little camera!

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by sakthorp

I own this camera as well. Had a Leica M9 and assorted lenses but sold my kit and got the X100. It's no rangefinder but it's a great little camera with a fairly large sensor and a fast lens. Full manual controls and very good image quality. Not for everyone but when I don't feel like hauling my DSLR gear it's perfect.

Fuji has a new model just announced. It is the X1-PRO. The very big feature over X100 is interchangeable lenses.

[Kamiak]

I would disagree with the AA over the rechargeable argument. While the initial cost of rechargeables can be pricey (one typically comes with the applicable camera), they last quite a long time, years. The related chargers don't typically require a cord, instead plug directly into the wall. The empty charger hardly consumes more room than an extra pack of AA batteries. And there's nothing inexpensive about good quality AA batteries.

The ILC's are interesting, seductive, albeit a considerable step up from the typical point-and-shoot "pocket" camera. I could easily convince myself to be an owner. My basic comments offered earlier relate to the point that unless you're a very serious photographer, nearly any modern digital will meet one's needs. I think portability (belt worn) lends to frequent use, enabling those spontaneous pictures of family, friends , and memories when none would have been taken if you had to break out the artillery and setup the tripod. In other words, in my humble opinion, for many casual users, I think it is easy to over-think the metaphysical distinction between x megapixels or y megapixels, real or imagined, or the nuances of one lens manufacturer versus another. For casual users, comfort, portability and useability are important elements, including whether or not you can easily understand the menu system and the various icons, don't have to re-train yourself each time you get the camera out, and whether or not you need to take a class and pack a manual that's larger than the camera itself. As I said before, and some others seem to agree, I also prefer that camera have a viewfinder, in addition to the LCD screen, due to the challenges posed by bright sunlight.

[perryg114]

Soon you won't have a choice. It will be cell phone camera or SLR. The point and shoot market is being taken by the cell phones. Camera makers are looseing money on the small point and shoot cameras. Personally, I think my Canon A620 which is several years old is still better than any cell phone camera. Unfortunately, the market is driven my the masses that are primarily concerned with taking pictures of babies and dogs and they don't really care if they are in focus or not.

Perry