Honest Airstream Questions

[Kanusport]

I think you’ve gotten some good advice. Airstreams can be used in winter and I use mine in winter a lot. We just dry camp in it. I think the biggest problem with the basecamp is the fridge. You are gonna have problems with any trailer. No matter the brand. The basecamp seems small and I’m not sure it’s something I’d ever consider for me. I think the 16 Bambi would be a better choice as it’s been around for a long time vs the basecamp which appears to be in beta testing still. Also some of your comments seemed a bit trolly but I figured you must be serious if you took the time to make such a long post. It appears you slammed one of the members here for his advice as well above?

The only problems I’ve had with my 22 sport have been with the dometic products, namely the circuit boards. If you get any trailer with dometic products do yourself a favor and get some dinosaur circuit boards from the get go.

Air streams love the winter, first night dry camping in Sula MT -10 degrees F, outside, 60 plus degrees inside.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Devil6x

Are you serious, Major Air Heads comments were garbage. It’s the equivalent to “You get what you get.”

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Yes - I was *completely* serious.

It’s sort of like you’re complaining about the quality of water because it doesn’t have the same effect as whisky....🤷*♂️

You’re seeking the wrong product for your desired goals.

You got *excellent* advice to take your list of needs to other RV dealers and see if they could match them. Someone will - you just need to look away from AS, that’s all.

You asked an honest question and have gotten honest answers, including from majorairhead. Not sure what else you could want but hope you find it. Best of luck!

[Alumaholic]

Airstream does not make a four season travel trailer.
Take your checklist and look at other brands.
Arctic Fox is a good place to start.
If someone takes the time to provide a thoughtful response, you should not call it "garbage."
You are a guest in "our" forums. Please be polite.

[Firefly77]

Originally Posted by Devil6x

Larry, thanks for the response. I don’t think that Airstream is inferior but, I do expect a level of quality. Does the price reflect this or not? So, knowing what I know, I’m having a hard time determining if Airstream is a quality product that justifies its price.

You won't "know what you know" until you actually spend some time in (pick your brand) doing what you want to do. Everyone has their own opinion of what quality is, and their own experiences to share.
Short answers for my experience:

Quality? Better than any other brand I have owned. Winnebago was as expensive and leaked from the get-go, generator was warranty replaced within a month, slide out broke on second outing and the Mercedes Sprinter chassis has had several recalls. Forest River Rockwood popped trim, cabinets etc on nearly every outing.

Worth the price? For us it was. We bought lightly used for one and a heavily discounted last year model on the other to save some money. Compared to higher profile boxes, the AS is easy to tow, and we love the look and feel of the AS inside and out, it puts a smile on our face. We are not into the AS social camping scene and don't care about "status". It's more personal to us than that. We now live north and boondock in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota where AC is not that big of a deal and we live without it. Never really considered a microwave for our style of camping...just propane/charcoal grill and a fire. We lived in Houston for a while and needed AC, so we camped where we could get hooked up.

All seasons? For winter, we either hole up in our log cabin or go to a warmer climate to camp. If we wanted a 4-season camper, I would probably look at Arctic Fox or Bigfoot. These are a little less pricey than AS, have a more complete "modern" interior and will give you just as many if not more quality issues as the other better quality RVs.

My wife and I just spent the last 2 weeks combing through every brand of travel trailer available in Ohio looking for a 4 season option to provide an onsite apartment for visiting family to our farm in southern Ohio. The new-on-the-lot quality of SOB trailers including the "best of the rest" is appalling. We saw cabinets pulled away from the wall, trim peeled up, flooring bubbled up, doors and drawers falling off, seam gaps, glue runs and handprints on walls, random screws, staples and parts laying loose that seemed to have no origin. And the chemical smell from degassing insulation and construction materials permeates the whole trailer. The Arctic Fox, Bigfoot and Rockwood Signature series seemed to have the most consistent quality feel of what was available. I have no idea (although I can guess) how these other units hold up on the road, but our Airstreams have met and exceeded our expectations. Sure there has been some upkeep, upgrade and routine maintenance as there will be in all trailers, but we've really never had any issues that needed warranty attention or any breakdown that we attributed to poor quality.

In my experience, RVs are not held to the same industry quality standards as passenger cars and trucks and the quality reflects that. AS is better than most (at least for us), but when you pull these trailers all over the map, and especially boondock on unpaved roads, things come loose, leak and malfuntion....just part of the experience. Being an RV owner has a lot of DIY component that you need to become comfortable with or your experience will be very frustrating.

Good luck in your quest...

[majorairhead]

Why would a person buy an inferior, shoddy, insufficient, overpriced trailer that can't be towed on salted roads and camped in during the throes of winter, with crappy build quality, terrible batteries, sub standard flooring, and a worthless fridge? Not to mention the inability to run the a/c and microwave whilst boondocking in Death Valley?

You tell me.

[mpsgolf]

We started with a used Airstream. The classifieds on this site are a good source. After about 4 years we traded for a new Airstream and were able to get what we paid in trade plus a huge discount on the new one.

So one value of AS is they hold their value fairly well after the “new depreciation.”

Yes they have some problems, but is there another brand where trailers from the 50s-60s-70s are still on the road and serviceable? Buying old shells and retrofitting the interior is a huge market for AS and I dare say few other trailers.

My 2cents.

[skyguyscott]

Originally Posted by majorairhead

Why would a person buy an inferior, shoddy, insufficient, overpriced trailer that can't be towed on salted roads and camped in during the throes of winter, with crappy build quality, terrible batteries, sub standard flooring, and a worthless fridge? Not to mention the inability to run the a/c and microwave whilst boondocking in Death Valley?

You tell me.

Major, when you find a superior, high-quality, inexpensive trailer impervious to salt roads and is cheap to heat in the throes of winter (above the 30th parallel) with plenty of battery power to run all appliances for last a week whether in Death Valley or the North pole, please let us know, I will buy that trailer.

[AirstreamJim]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Major, when you find a superior, high-quality, inexpensive trailer impervious to salt roads and is cheap to heat in the throes of winter (above the 30th parallel) with plenty of battery power to run all appliances for last a week whether in Death Valley or the North pole, please let us know, I will buy that trailer.

Methinks you may have misunderstood Major. He was asking (with a touch of sarcasm...) the OP why he would consider an RV that doesn’t meet his requirements. Major is an Airstream owner, whom I believe to be happy, and his first reply to the OP was this:

Originally Posted by majorairhead

My recommendation would be to most certainly take your list of questions and purchase the rv that meets those criteria.

His point being that Airstream can’t meet the OP’s requirements, and likely, there is no brand that could meet those requirements.

(And I didn’t think either of his replies were “garbage” but I guess I’m just an Airstream fanboy....)

Your question might better be directed to the OP.

Jim

[n2916s]

Came back to edit this as I realized I came across pretty snotty here... didn’t mean to... so, let me restate:

I think the OP is looking at the wrong brand of RV. Mine certainly can’t meet his specs.

I would think a post on the IRV2 Forum would be more fruitful.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Came back to edit this as I realized I came across pretty snotty here... didn’t mean to... so, let me restate:

I think the OP is looking at the wrong brand of RV. Mine certainly can’t meet his specs.

I would think a post on the IRV2 Forum would be more fruitful.

Probably a silly question, but what is the IRV2 Forum??

[Firefly77]

Originally Posted by Cerberus

Probably a silly question, but what is the IRV2 Forum??

http://www.irv2.com/forums/


Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.

[Devil6x]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Honest answer. I think you ought not to buy a Basecamp.

Mr. M., thanks.

Background: I work for the government overseas. Things are tight and traffic is very heavy. An American size tow vehicle plus a 25’+ trailer doesn’t interest me especially at Autobahn speeds, on narrow streets, or in locations where sites are already going to question the size of the tow vehicle. It is true Euros operate large vehicles but they employ things like 4 wheel steering for a reason.

The Basecamp plus tents is a very desirable option for any weekend to the countless camp sites along the Mosel, to any city, to use when I do a race, For skiing, for site seeing, or to a fest. In Germany, maybe Europe too, you can camp anywhere, within reason. The Basecamp appears to be scaleable and tailorable to a situation and environment.

Bottom line, I want this to work. A generator is a requirement (110/ 220) although a 3-5 kw generator is more than I want.

Does it do what Airstream says it will do?

[Devil6x]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

Airstreams are not for everyone and truth be told neither can Airstream meet the demand for its Trailers, note: expansions of its facilities. Have you researched SOB as carefully as Airstream?

Airstream’s don’t have to be for everyone. They also shouldn’t be putting out crappy products. Does caveat emptor apply to Airstream?

[Devil6x]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Based on your statements and questions, I can assure you an Airstream is not for you. In fact, almost no RV can do what you want it to. Possibly a huge motor home with massive fuel and holding tank reserves will meet just those two criteria of 96 hours unplugged, and then you will be using the onboard generator. And those will almost certainly have build quality issues for you.
Good luck in your search, though I think that search will be an eternal one.

But why can’t it? If Ford, Class 8 manufacturers, and military manufacturers can build 4 season capable vehicles out of aluminum, why can’t Airstream?

What is so hard about a sourcing a refrigerator and heater that does what it is supposed to do, a 10 gallon black tank and 15 gallon grey? Are these things that nobody should have?

Airstream manufacturing and QC problems are their problems, you are making it the consumers problem. Is it really that bad?

[Devil6x]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Major, when you find a superior, high-quality, inexpensive trailer impervious to salt roads and is cheap to heat in the throes of winter (above the 30th parallel) with plenty of battery power to run all appliances for last a week whether in Death Valley or the North pole, please let us know, I will buy that trailer.

Does an aluminum bodied Ford F-150 have to be parked at home November to March or does it do the things Ford says it will do?

[Devil6x]

Kanusport, thanks, there is useful information here. I don’t want to deal with something so long or boxy which may lead to navigation problems.

[Devil6x]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Let me try to address each concern:

The traditional Airstream trailer lasts longer than SOBs on average, but the BaseCamp is an entirely new animal, still in Beta, IMHO and they have not got the kinks worked out yet, of which there are many, But the price/quality equation is nowhere near the equivalent in the Auto industry, regardless of the trailer model, but most especially for the BaseCamp.

Nissan actually designed the original BaseCamp, you can research the internet for the differences and history.

The aluminum construction means making AS 4-season is problematic at best. AL is extremely thermal conductive, plus the large, single pane windows make it not feasible for extended use in below freezing temps, although some do on occasion for short stints.

Winter towing is risky no matter the trailer. All trailers use lightweight material for mileage and towing capacities, meaning they are fairly fragile.

The refrigerator issue in the BaseCamp is notorious and a result of incredibly poor design on the part of AS, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Energy use whilst boondocking is a challenge. The technology isn't there yet for full electric, which is why propane appliances are still in use. LI battery and solar are coming along, but for a hefty price.

There exists other more durable flooring than plywood: Aluminum and Coosa Board to name two that are water proof, critter and varmint proof, mold resistant and lighter than plywood, but Thor builds these as cheap as feasible.

There are numerous threads here regarding the production quality issues on the line, along with suggestions that AS implement Six Sigma, TPS, lean production methodologies used in the Auto industry, but AS has not implemented them and likely will not unless the market forces them too, which, currently it is no where near that point.

The BaseCamp trailer in theory is a great concept, but it's design and execution so far are not likely to result in satisfied customers.

It might be worth a long sit-down meeting with a dealer to hammer out a legally binding contract to see what they will agree to deliver for you. It might also do some good to contact the brass at Thor with your questions to see what response they give a potential customer put off by the QC and design issues.

Thanks, my concerns exactly. Now what to do.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by Devil6x

Mr. M., thanks.

Background: I work for the government overseas. Things are tight and traffic is very heavy. An American size tow vehicle plus a 25’+ trailer doesn’t interest me especially at Autobahn speeds, on narrow streets, or in locations where sites are already going to question the size of the tow vehicle. It is true Euros operate large vehicles but they employ things like 4 wheel steering for a reason.

The Basecamp plus tents is a very desirable option for any weekend to the countless camp sites along the Mosel, to any city, to use when I do a race, For skiing, for site seeing, or to a fest. In Germany, maybe Europe too, you can camp anywhere, within reason. The Basecamp appears to be scaleable and tailorable to a situation and environment.

Bottom line, I want this to work. A generator is a requirement (110/ 220) although a 3-5 kw generator is more than I want.

Does it do what Airstream says it will do?

If you want to use it in Europe, why don't you buy the European spec trailer?

They are fitted out for European campsites (portable tanks, cassette toilets) where we don't have vehicle accessible dump stations, have European spec appliances and sized for European roads.

Of course European four season is very different from US four season, but road salt much more of a problem (countries with night-time temps below freezing and day-time temps above extensively use road salt/grit).

Of course they are not certified for registration in the US (until 25 years old) so you can't take it back, but then it would not be suitable for use in US anyway.

https://www.airstream-europe.com/traveltrailer/

But please note......

You won't find a Basecamp (or an Interstate) listed as they simply would not sell here. Go look at a European SOB, we have 100x more choice here and the price difference is even more significant.

[Devil6x]

Originally Posted by martin300662

If you want to use it in Europe, why don't you buy the European spec trailer?

They are fitted out for European campsites (portable tanks, cassette toilets) where we don't have vehicle accessible dump stations, have European spec appliances and sized for European roads.

Of course European four season is very different from US four season, but road salt much more of a problem (countries with night-time temps below freezing and day-time temps above extensively use road salt/grit).

Of course they are not certified for registration in the US (until 25 years old) so you can't take it back, but then it would not be suitable for use in US anyway.

https://www.airstream-europe.com/traveltrailer/

But please note......

You won't find a Basecamp (or an Interstate) listed as they simply would not sell here. Go look at a European SOB, we have 100x more choice here and the price difference is even more significant.

Martin, thanks.

Simply I’m not European and I do not intend to stay in Europe. Is it possible that I could be here in 10 years, yes but this is unlikely. Do I want to get 80,000 euros into a European spec platform or less than half of that on something from the States that I can legally register in Europe and take back?

The Basecamp or similar isn’t sold in Europe but, I can get warranty work done (unnecessary if the Basecamp is a quality product).

The trade-offs are acceptable if you are using the Basecamp as a mobile launch point- breakfast and basic hygiene, go somewhere for the day, shelter if needed, return back, secure things, go to sleep.

European travel trailers are very lightweight, uninsulated, and from what I know unable to do what I am looking to do. This leads naturally to North American products.

The problem is that it appears Airstream’s promised capabilities are only promise deep.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by Devil6x

Martin, thanks.

Simply I’m not European and I do not intend to stay in Europe. Is it possible that I could be here in 10 years, yes but this is unlikely. Do I want to get 80,000 euros into a European spec platform or less than half of that on something from the States that I can legally register in Europe and take back?

The Basecamp or similar isn’t sold in Europe but, I can get warranty work done (unnecessary if the Basecamp is a quality product).

The trade-offs are acceptable if you are using the Basecamp as a mobile launch point- breakfast and basic hygiene, go somewhere for the day, shelter if needed, return back, secure things, go to sleep.

European travel trailers are very lightweight, uninsulated, and from what I know unable to do what I am looking to do. This leads naturally to North American products.

The problem is that it appears Airstream’s promised capabilities are only promise deep.

Most people that buy US Airstream and import into Europe, have them gutted and re-fitted for the European campsites (not just lights and tow hitch changed). I had my motorhome rebuilt in the US using parts I imported from Europe. If you think you can import a US Airstream and use it out of the box, this is yet another reason to look elsewhere.

But research your facts first as many European trailers are built to a much higher insulation standard than a US Airstream. Yes, they are lighter but to make them more suitable for European use.

I am really struggling to understand what you are trying to achieve with this thread. You ask for advice and then ignore it or counter with your own opinion, as if you know better. If you do, why ask?

As others have said, maybe take your list around the RV shows in Europe (this weekend is the national caravan show in the UK and they happen in most countries), the UK arm of Airstream is there so are all the others, and see if any fit your needs.