BC20X Tow Vehicles

[joegeiger]

Hi. I am new to the forums. We are purchasing a used 2021 Basecamp 20x and are considering 2 tow vehicle options: a Ford Ranger or a Jeep Grand Cherokee V6. The Ranger has a 7500 lb towing capacity and the Grand Cherokee has 6200 lb.

Any other Basecamp 20 owners towing with either of these that you could share your experience?

[ErickfromMI]

I’m new here as well and I’ve seen a lot of people towing with the Grand Cherokee. I think most folks with an SUV are using a weight distribution hitch to help level it out and move the weight forward and reduce sway.

[joegeiger]

The Basecamp I am buying comes with an Equalizer WD hitch with anti-sway bars so I'm all set there.

I made a spreadsheet comparing details of each vehicle and so far, the Jeep is the front runner.

[dkmcgrath]

I think you'll be happier with the Jeep. We considered selling my PowerWagon and my wife’s Cherokee and replacing them with a single Grand Cherokee, but they couldn't get one for us with the options we wanted.

At the time, we would have gone from 2 car payments to no car payments. They were willing to give me absurd amounts of money for my truck. I don't think that's true anymore.

Turns out we made the right call, as one vehicle with two working adults and a three-year-old doesn't work great.

The longer wheelbase over the ranger will also be a plus.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

It's never really just about the trailer.

You always have "stuff" along. The trailer has a 900 pound "capacity". That's with empty tanks. About 200 pounds go away when you fill the fresh water. If you have a full fresh tank and partial black and gray tanks ( which is not all that unusual ) it soaks up even more of the 900 pounds. There's only so much you can put in the trailer.

The SUV is great for putting a lot of passengers into. It also has a limited payload and the passengers all subtract from this number as well. You then take out the weight put onto the vehicle by the trailer. This includes weight from the hitch.

None of this is in any way at all to say that either vehicle is a bad choice. It's only to point out that all of the "other" things are what normally get you. Towing capacity is not the big deal here, payloads are what to focus on.

While you can get a nice specific payload number on the trailer, getting a *real* payload for a car / truck / SUV / van means looking at the door sticker. The data you find on the internet is useless. They always seem to call out a bigger number than what the real vehicle has ( options add weight and they don't factor into the internet numbers ...).

Fun !!!

Bob

[joegeiger]

Thanks for all the responses. I ended up buying the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the air-lift suspension and tow package.

The issue I have now is there are 2 stated payload capacities. The tire sticker (not the factory VIN sticker) on the driver’s door jam says 1050 lbs while the official Jeep specs say 1219 lbs for the Overland trim I purchased. That’s a big discrepancy. I have also had a hard time finding a specific curb weight for the Overland trim. As suggested I’ ll bring it to a scale and weigh it so I know for sure. From there I can calculate the cargo capacity by subtracting the curb weight from the GVWR.

While at the dealer I looked at the same sticker on other trims and they all said 1050 lbs even though the official Jeep specs show more capacity for the lower trim models because they have fewer options. If it’s really 1050 lbs then It’s going to be close with just me, my wife, the dog and the tongue weight of the BC with no extra cargo in the Jeep. That means all of the cargo (food, clothes, porch mat, grill, bikes, etc…) will be in the Basecamp which should be fine.

I reached out to Jeep for clarification but don’t expect to hear back. My dealer was just as confused.

[AlbertF]

What are the front GAWR, rear GAWR, and GVWR numbers?

[joegeiger]

Front GAWR is 2800 lbs. Rear GAWR is 3350 lbs. GVWR is 6050 lbs.

Here is a picture of the tire sticker on the door:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxd3eghwbo..._1077.JPG?dl=0

Here is a picture of the VIN sticker: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ehdzn9pnr..._1078.JPG?dl=0

I noticed on the Basecamp that it has 2 stickers and the top tire sticker shows a cargo capacity of 568 lbs even though the Basecamp 20x specs say it has an 800 lb cargo capacity. The bottom Airstream sticker doesn’t list cargo weight.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6w9l20voq..._1076.JPG?dl=0

So which is it?

[joegeiger]

Sorry… I got the the tire and VIN photos switched in my reply above.

[SlowPokePete]

The sticker is the actual payload.

And your dealer is lying if they say they don't know this.

SPP

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by joegeiger

The issue I have now is there are 2 stated payload capacities. The tire sticker (not the factory VIN sticker) on the driver’s door jam says 1050 lbs while the official Jeep specs say 1219 lbs for the Overland trim I purchased. That’s a big discrepancy. I have also had a hard time finding a specific curb weight for the Overland trim. As suggested I’ ll bring it to a scale and weigh it so I know for sure. From there I can calculate the cargo capacity by subtracting the curb weight from the GVWR.

I’m with you on this approach. However, you will get pushback on this forum.

It’s a passenger vehicle, not a truck. It is very common to have a 200 to 300 lb discrepancy between GVWR less curb weight, and the yellow sticker. I’ve seen spacious mid-size sedans rated for 880 lbs. Four men and their golf clubs would theoretically overload the car - which is absurd. But if you look at GVWR and curb weight, 1100 to 1200 lbs of effective capacity is typical.

Presumably the payload on the yellow sticker accounts for the fact that much of the load will be in the luggage compartment. With a trailer using a weight distributing hitch, the load will also be applied to the front axle, and balanced.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by joegeiger

Thanks for all the responses. I ended up buying the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the air-lift suspension and tow package.

The issue I have now is there are 2 stated payload capacities. The tire sticker (not the factory VIN sticker) on the driver’s door jam says 1050 lbs while the official Jeep specs say 1219 lbs for the Overland trim I purchased. That’s a big discrepancy. I have also had a hard time finding a specific curb weight for the Overland trim. As suggested I’ ll bring it to a scale and weigh it so I know for sure. From there I can calculate the cargo capacity by subtracting the curb weight from the GVWR.

While at the dealer I looked at the same sticker on other trims and they all said 1050 lbs even though the official Jeep specs show more capacity for the lower trim models because they have fewer options. If it’s really 1050 lbs then It’s going to be close with just me, my wife, the dog and the tongue weight of the BC with no extra cargo in the Jeep. That means all of the cargo (food, clothes, porch mat, grill, bikes, etc…) will be in the Basecamp which should be fine.

I reached out to Jeep for clarification but don’t expect to hear back. My dealer was just as confused.

The website states the payload for a base model of that trim with no other options added. I’m not familiar with what you can add to the Cherokee, but as others have mentioned it’s not uncommon for the actual payload sticker to differ from the website or brochure’s “maximum” payload. This is especially true of trucks that can come with a lot of factory options. But even SUV’s can come with tonneau covers for true back, different tires, floor mats, fabrics, etc. that can change the curb weight.

But as you’ve also mentioned, in the end weighing it against the GVWR is really all that matters.

[joegeiger]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

The website states the payload for a base model of that trim with no other options added. I’m not familiar with what you can add to the Cherokee, but as others have mentioned it’s not uncommon for the actual payload sticker to differ from the website or brochure’s “maximum” payload. This is especially true of trucks that can come with a lot of factory options. But even SUV’s can come with tonneau covers for true back, different tires, floor mats, fabrics, etc. that can change the curb weight.

But as you’ve also mentioned, in the end weighing it against the GVWR is really all that matters.

As you can see from the photo of the Basecamp stickers I linked to above, it also doesn’t agree with the specs for payload capacity but it does for GVWR.

As suggested, I will just have to weigh the Jeep and trailer both separate and together to verify I’m not exceeding the GAWR, GVWR and GCWR and weight the Jeep empty of cargo and passengers to get a real curb weight. That will give me my real baseline.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by joegeiger

As you can see from the photo of the Basecamp stickers I linked to above, it also doesn’t agree with the specs for payload capacity but it does for GVWR.



As suggested, I will just have to weigh the Jeep and trailer both separate and together to verify I’m not exceeding the GAWR, GVWR and GCWR and weight the Jeep empty of cargo and passengers to get a real curb weight. That will give me my real baseline.

GVWR is determined, curb weight is measured, and payload is what remains.

GVWR is a rating that is determined by how the vehicle or trailer is built. It is determined by the manufacturer and may change with feature sets like tow packages or payload packages, but generally will remain consistent across vehicles with the same trim, style, and feature set.

The payload is just what remains after weighing the vehicle at the factory after it’s build and subtracting that from the GVWR. The variable factor is the actual weight of the vehicle, and that changes depending on the options you get (for instance a moon roof generally adds 100 lbs or more, tonneau covers add some weight, etc.). So the payload listed on the website is the very base of that trim. Or in Airstream’s case, an average or estimate based on trailers being weighed as they leave the factory. The actual payload is determined individually for each vehicle after it is weighed with all the factory options installed. And in the case of Airstream which are still made largely by hand, the weight even with the same options can vary. It would be a very rare event for your payload sticker to match exactly the payload listed on the manufacturer’s marketing materials. Ten vehicles all with the same trim could have ten different weights.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

No matter what the vehicle brand, pretty much all trucks / cars / vans show up with less payload than the internet ( or manual ) would suggest they have. There simply are to many optional items that get tacked on. Each one adds weight and takes away from payload. On some truck models the "delta" is a thousand pounds or more. ( yes, they really put a lot of options on some trucks these days ....).

Also worth noting is the fact that the front and rear axles each have a load rating. The payload number you see assumes that each axle is loaded to max. Unless you have a WD hitch or a very odd setup on your vehicle, the rear axle likely overloads well before the front. Running over a CAT scale is the only way to really know what's going on.

Also fun at the scale is finding out if the door sticker is correct. Some stuff gets added after the vehicle leaves the factory. There have been examples of factories putting incorrect labels on vehicles. The max gross weight number on the vehicle is going to be pretty well documented. This or that suspension gives you 6,562 pounds max ( or whatever ). The scale says that the empty vehicle weighs 5,262 pounds ... your payload is 1,300 pounds. Door sticker says 1,400 or 1,200? ... payload is 1,300.

Bob

[SilverWind]

BlueOx has recently partnered with Airstream. They've designated the Airstream TrackPro for the Basecamp 20. They offer 4 models based on the tongue weight of your trailer.

I'm impressed by the light weight of the bars compared to the Equalizer's much heavier bars. I bought an Equalizer E2 (but haven't yet installed) for our 2015 Grand Cherokee Overland V-6 with air-lift suspension to tow our 68 Caravel 17. We may use the TrackPro 600lb TW model instead because of it's lighter weight and relative simplicity and the ease of carrying the lighter Blue Ox's bars in the back of the GC.

https://support.airstream.com/hc/en-...ribution-Hitch

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by SilverWind

BlueOx has recently partnered with Airstream. They've designated the Airstream TrackPro for the Basecamp 20. They offer 4 models based on the tongue weight of your trailer.

Yeah, the issue with the Sway Pro is that the Basceamp propane tank cover interferes with the latches (my understanding was you had trouble turning them with the factory included wrench). We ended up getting their premium wrench as a backup (a breaker bar and appropriate socket would also work), so when we were still considering the Basecamp we were hoping that would work. But we ended up switching to a Flying Cloud, so I guess we'll never know, lol!

The SwayPro is near silent compared to the much louder Equal-i-zer. I'm curious how the TrackPro compares.

[SilverWind]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Yeah, the issue with the Sway Pro is that the Basceamp propane tank cover interferes with the latches (my understanding was you had trouble turning them with the factory included wrench). We ended up getting their premium wrench as a backup (a breaker bar and appropriate socket would also work), so when we were still considering the Basecamp we were hoping that would work. But we ended up switching to a Flying Cloud, so I guess we'll never know, lol!

The SwayPro is near silent compared to the much louder Equal-i-zer. I'm curious how the TrackPro compares.

Track Pro is quiet and you are free to back up without removing the bars.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by SilverWind

Track Pro is quiet and you are free to back up without removing the bars.

Good to know! The SwayPro is the same (backing and quiet). The only thing that makes me nervous about it is you can really hurt yourself if you don’t take it off correctly. I had a near miss after having not had a trailer for 9 months, when we got our Airstream, I kinda forgot the reason for the order of operations and ended up transferring part of the spring in the bars to the wrench and then to my jaw. I’m lucky nothing was broken. I heard a horror story of someone with and admittedly much heavier trailer and bars that had brain surgery after doing something similar. So we’ve been tempted by switching. Though I also don’t think I’ll ever make that mistake again.

[dkmcgrath]

It gets even more complicated when you have a truck like mine where the combined listed axle weights are much higher than the listed GVWR. And then you get into sprung vs inspiring mass...

That aside, does anyone have a link for the Blue Ox x Airstream trackpro? I believe the model is BWX0650-AS. But I can't find that to purchase anywhere!