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outthere · 10-06-2006, 05:47 AM

Not sure if this is the right spot to post this so if there's a better place let me know. This is my first post....

I'm in the market for a "retirement" airstream. Wife and I are getting ready to sell the house and want to travel the country for a year or two. We have towed boats in the past but never a travel trailer. After looking for a couple of months we seem to have settled on the Safari line. We both like the look. Problem is, we are not sure about some things. OK....here are my questsions:

1) Planning to tow with a 2005 Toyota 4Runner with a 270HP V8 engine. Hitch is rated for 7300 pounds.
2) What weight / size trailer should I go with if I plan to do a LOT of driving all across the country....Up mountains, down mountains, high wind, etc etc? Is smaller better? 20 foot Safari is 3900 lbs UVW & 5000 GVRW, 28 is 5500 pounds UVW (Unloaded vehicle weight) and 7300 GVWR (max weight).
3) My wife and I both love the layout of the 2007 Safari 20 footer but it only has a single axle. Is a double axle a "must" on a trailer that is going to be towed a lot or is the single fine on a unit as small as 20 feet?

We would get the 20 footer in a heartbeat if it was double axle but some folks have scared us a bit and told us we should stay away from single axle.

Can somebody who has experience with these issues give me some feedback on this? I appreciate your advice and insight!
"almost" OUTTHERE

wahoonc · 10-06-2006, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outthere

1) Planning to tow with a 2005 Toyota 4Runner with a 270HP V8 engine. Hitch is rated for 7300 pounds.

I am not familar with your TV setup so I go with my standard advice. Use 80% of the Tow Capacity vs the GVW of the trailer you plan to tow. This leaves you with a conservative safety factor. If you are very close or over on this number you will need to make some addtional calculations.

Quote:

2) What weight / size trailer should I go with if I plan to do a LOT of driving all across the country....Up mountains, down mountains, high wind, etc etc? Is smaller better? 20 foot Safari is 3900 lbs UVW & 5000 GVRW, 28 is 5500 pounds UVW (Unloaded vehicle weight) and 7300 GVWR (max weight).

For fulltiming the bigger the better to a point, towing differences between a 20 and a 28 are not that great if your TV is capable and set up correctly.

Quote:

3) My wife and I both love the layout of the 2007 Safari 20 footer but it only has a single axle. Is a double axle a "must" on a trailer that is going to be towed a lot or is the single fine on a unit as small as 20 feet?

We would get the 20 footer in a heartbeat if it was double axle but some folks have scared us a bit and told us we should stay away from single axle.

Can somebody who has experience with these issues give me some feedback on this? I appreciate your advice and insight!
"almost" OUTTHERE

The double axle has a tendency to be a bit more stable when towing, and you have the added safety advantage of more wheels if one blows out as well as 4 brakes vs 2. But you also have the added maintenance costs of the extra axle. It will come down to what you are comfortable with.

Aaron

hiker · 10-06-2006, 06:25 AM

About the single vs double axle ...

I think your primary consideration should be selecting the TV/TT combination that is right for you. I can't comment from personal experience about what TT's a 4-Runner can safely handle. I'm sure other fourm members will provide good advice.

If it turns out that the 19-20' is right for you, I wouldn't be concerned about the single axle. Lot's of members on this forum tow them safely all over the country. We are especially careful about maintaining correct tire pressure, and plan to replace tires every 2-3 years as an added safety precaution.

funchucky1 · 10-06-2006, 06:49 AM

There's nothing wrong with a single axle trailer.
They do NOT tow poorly, and most of them have skids underneath so that even if you DO have a flat, the trailer does not slide down the road (or off into a ditch) on its belly.
We've towed single axle Airstreams and Avions across the country multiple times, and throughout the East and West coasts extensively in the past few years. Never felt like we'd have been better off with two or three axles.

On the other hand, we also towed for about 20,000 miles with a 4Runner. It was a '97 (previous generation), so it was a bit smaller than yours.
In general, it was OK (for a 20 ft or 22 ft Avion, or for a 22 foot Airstream).
It had a V6, and the Toyota supercharger. We were never short on power. We could scream up the Grapevine in CA at 75 if we choose to. And the trailer brakes were always good, so stopping wasn't difficult either.

BUT - passing trucks (and buses and Mohos) were NOT fun. (That is, when they passed us, usually). We used a weight distribution setup with sway control, and that helped a great deal....but when we bought a 3/4 ton CC truck, it is OBVIOUS that there is a difference! There is NO sway now, and I don't care WHAT passes us, you don't feel it. I NEVER preach about Hensleys, but I'd have to say that you'd be happier if you buy one, if you plan to use a 4Runner as a tow vehicle. That said, I'd also stay in the 5000 pound range. 7000 pounds would be heavy for a 4Runner, no matter what the hitch is rated for.

outthere · 10-06-2006, 11:08 AM

Thanks so much for the quick replies!! This is my first post and I'm thrilled with the amount of knowledge thats out there. Thank you Thank you!

Based on what I'm hearing I am leaning toward the 20 with the single axle. The GVW of the trailer is 5000 lbs with an empty weight of just under 4000. My 4 Runner is rated at 7300 so that combination would be well within the 80% rule. I'm thinking that as long as I have a good hitch there should be no problem with the 5000 lbs Safari.

By the way, my wife and I actually prefer the 20 over the larger models not just because of weight but because of the layout. The small size also seems to fit with what I want to do (i.e. all back roads, some primitive campgrounds, etc).

We plan to live aboard for a year or two but the size isn't a problem since we have experience living on a boat for a while. The 20 layout is about the same size as the boat.

Again, thanks so much for the responses!!!

Minnie's Mate · 10-06-2006, 11:45 AM

I am afraid I can't help too much with your decision since I am not familiar with the 4-Runner or single axle towing, but I can do one thing that all of the other respondents haven't done...Welcome to the Forums!

You will find a great deal of advise and knowledge here on ever Airstream subject imaginable. I hung out on this forum for about 2 or 2-1/2 years before I actually purchased my Airstream and, thanks to the information I gleamed here, I felt very comfortable with my decisions and was a very knowledgeable consumer when the time came.

Good luck with your Safari and, again, welcome to a great community!

TIMEMACHINE · 10-06-2006, 12:00 PM

outthere,

Sounds like you are getting close. Your Toyota will give you many miles of fun if you keep the weight reasonable. As the previous poster mentioned, you will get some "feedback" when going by tractor trailers, mostly due to the weight (low) and wheelbase (short) of the 4-Runner. As for single versus tandem axles, they are both safe, but..tandem is safer and does tow forward and backward straighter. The additional brakes (2 vs 4) will make a difference in the hills and the extra axle does provide for a larger safety margin on the load carrying capacity.

John

mr. bill · 10-06-2006, 12:44 PM

Welcome to the forums.
I wish you all the best in your travels. Keep us updated with a photo now and then. You are ahead of my wife and I by a couple of years when it comes to retirement. We plan on traveling quite a lot, also but I am still looking for my AS so that I can scratch this case of aluminitis I have.

Bill

flyfisher · 10-06-2006, 02:15 PM

I retired 5 years ago, and my wife and I have been spending the entire summersin the Northwest - US and Canada - ever since. We just returned home the day before yesterday after spending the past 3 months in Montana.

We have a 30' Classic Limited and tow with a 2000 Ford PSD. What we've found is that the bigger tow vehicle and slightly larger trailer are more conducive to our life style when we're spending longer periods of time on the road. In fact, we're seriously thinking of upgrading to an even larger RV, and probably a larger tow vehicle.

I know there are lots of people who feel comfortable in small travel trailers. Personally, I'm not one of them. If you're going to be spending a lot of time in an RV and doing lots of travelling, get a tow vehicle and RV that best meets your requirements.

John

InsideOut · 10-06-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfisher

In fact, we're seriously thinking of upgrading to an even larger RV, and probably a larger tow vehicle.

Uh oh, this doesn't sound like an Airstream...say it isn't so!?

Shari

outthere · 10-06-2006, 05:41 PM

Again, thanks for the responses! I assume there is a place somewhere on this forum that discusses the Hensley hitch? Sounds like that should be something I look at even if I'm towing a 20 footer with the 4 Runner.

hiker · 10-06-2006, 06:06 PM

Just type "Hensley" into the search feature and be prepared to spend the next two weeks reading all the posts

**Janet H** · 10-06-2006, 06:19 PM

Your toyota is plenty of tow for a 20 footer. But... take it from someone with a 20 foot trailer - it gets mighty tiny on long trips. How about a 23 footer? Those 3 feet make a world of difference.

scottanlily · 10-06-2006, 07:37 PM

I would say the single axle is just fine ,I do tow with a 60 trdwnd single axle .
It tows straight ,a tandem does NOT make it tow straighter ???? .The reason
trailers have more than one axle is that they need the extra axle for the extra weight in the longer ,heavier trailers ,for more support .If you want the 20 '
trailer ,I would buy it ,no need to wring hands over the axle .If you get a blow out on a tandem ,just as much or more damage gets done as a single
axle does .I did have a major tire failure with my 60 single ,just some noise
and smoke from the tire ,stayed straight an true on the road ,never had any
swaying or anything ,we just pulled off the highway and proceded to install
the spare .

Scott of scottanlily

outthere · 10-06-2006, 07:42 PM

Janet, Thanks for the insight on the smallness of the 20 feet over time. I hear what your saying but the 20 is the choice right now for a couple of reasons. First, my wife seems to like the layout on the 20 a LOT better than the 22 or 23. She doesn't like the "sparten/modern" look of the International 22 with all the bright colors. As far as the Safari 23 goes, she doesn't like the single sink in the kitchen and the fact that the bathroom sink is out in the open. Plus she likes the head being on the far side away from the bed. She loves everything about the 20. I wouldn't mind going with a 23 myself but it would be a tough sell for her. Second, we did live on a small sailboat for quite a while and the quarters on it were about the same as the 20 AS. We didn't have a problem on the sailboat. We'll see but right now we're leaning toward the 20. Maybe the next model year will introduce a 22 or 23 with the same basic layout as the 20 -- that would be the best of both worlds....

**Janet H** · 10-06-2006, 08:09 PM

The upside of a tiny trailer is that you can take it anywhere and fit it into tiny sized spaces. Either way - you'll love an Aistream.

TIMEMACHINE · 10-06-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

outthere,

As for single versus tandem axles, they are both safe, but..tandem is safer and does tow forward and backward straighter. The additional brakes (2 vs 4) will make a difference in the hills and the extra axle does provide for a larger safety margin on the load carrying capacity.

John

Scott,

Sounds as though we differ on this subject. Generally, my opinion is based upon the physics of dynamic lateral rolling resistance and the effect on tracking. Of course the speed of the trailer as it corresponds to the drag coefficient will compound the analysis, but, the outcome stays true to the theory. The more tires you have moving in the same direction with the same alignment, the straighter you will travel. I hope this answers your question.

John

scottanlily · 10-06-2006, 10:06 PM

Hello John ,
Well I did not ask you a question but,a single axle trailer is being towed ,
as is a tandem ,how could the trailer possibly not be tracking straight as it is being pulled in a straight line behind the TV? I don't use theoretical ideas as
a determination ,and the theory as you have stated doesn't make alot of sense ,drag coefficiant causing the trailer to not go straight ? when its being towed ?The trailer will follow the tow vehical wherever it tracks ,no way it can't ,lane change ,uphill around a curve no matter .It could be prone to sway more than a tandem I will say that is a possibility anyway .If the tandem trailer was loose from the TV it would roll on down the road straighter
than the single axle coming loose ,Ill say thats true ,not when they are mechanically attached to a fixed point (the hitch) and are in tow .What is true is that the new 20' airstream single axle will cruise along the road
behind the TV arrow straight ,mine does and so many others ,no reason
not to buy it unless a larger coach is desired .

Scott

TIMEMACHINE · 10-06-2006, 11:17 PM

Scott,

I agree that single vs tandem axle should be one of the last reasons to buy one AS over another. I am sure if we had the time we would find that our opinions are probably closer than we express. It is always kinda fun to talk counterpoints to keep us on our toes.

John

outthere · 10-07-2006, 06:32 PM

Spent the morning over at the local AS dealer today. Looked at 19, 20, 23, 25 and 27. Based on the answers I received in this post, we pretty much decided not to take the 25 and 27 too seriously as empty weight on both was over 5500 lbs with GVW at about 7300 to 7600 lbs. Too much for the 4 runner... The 20 looked about perfect with empty weight of 4150 and a GVW of 5000. Well within the range of the 4 Runners 7300 lbs limit. The layout on the 20 also seems to suit what were looking for. We've asked the dealer to price out a 20 SE with the LE package. We haven't totally decided yet and we have some time since I don't plan to retire until the end of next year. Our thought is to sell the house and all the "stuff" next Spring/Summer. We'd also probably buy the AS at about the same timeframe and start using it on weekend jaunts. Getting Excited. Thanks for all the insight on this forum. You've given me a lot of good information and the best part is that it's not coming from someone who's trying to sell me something. By the way...I did ask about the Hensley hitch and from the look on the salesmans' face he has never seen one. He seemed to know they were expensive and he thought they would be overkill based on the $3000 price tag verses the standard anti sway kit at about $600....I'm going to spend more time researching the Hensley and if its that good, the investment seems small compared to the return.