Rotten floor due to water leak!

[SeeMore]

"Airstream not reacting to owners' cases and correcting assembler performance is inexcusable" - Maybe a more detail re-read is in order?

As for owners doing the 'required' maintenance to prevent leaks, I was not referring to the manual but ownership experience. Not all leaks stem from the "no sealant" problem but rather from sealant/seam/gaskets failure due to age, UV, etc., and that water finds it way to the floor. I have discovered and repaired leaks and damage in my unit. The Airforums provided great insight into the how, when, where, what for those adventures. Yes, it can happen repeatedly despite regular attention and a meticulous nature.

Going beyond the dictionary for a definition and expected remedy:

The warranty period is the 'defects liability period' but it may not end then under the 'statutory liability period' remedy option. Statutory is generally six years but you'd have to research your jurisdiction and RV applicability specifically.

In 1986, the Latent Damage Act introduced an extension to the ordinary six-year statutory limitation period. This extension is available for negligence claims for latent defects – a defect in a property, caused by a fault in design, materials or workmanship, that existed at the time construction (the day of assembly re: Airstream) was completed but was not apparent at the time of completion. Whether the Act is applicable to your Travel Trailer is a conversation you can have with your lawyer. FYI, The Act does not apply to personal injury claims (from say stepping through a rotten floor).

In my case, the trailer was badged with an October 2002 build date (start of the statutory period) and it took over ten years before the first "leak" appeared so I can only look to myself for remedy. I still discover a new source every six months or so and keep the moisture meter handy.

Any implied feelings of condescension or insult taken by others are NOT intentional and I don't expect an apology from those still in the emotional stage of dealing with the issue(s). If you are unhappy the first time, just wait until it starts all over again after you've fixed it permanently.

[RareStream]

I was actually surprised to see this:



On my trailer, I have removed the rear taillights to repair the corrosion. However, my trailer has plastic "cups" mounted between the inner and outer skin; there was no exposed insulation nor could I see or touch the internal aluminum skin.

The plastic "cups" are a bit bigger than the taillight assembly themselves, and sealed to the external aluminum skin from behind; they aren't riveted. On my trailer, these internal plastic cups are sealed all the way around; there is no way for water to enter the trailer here unless the sealant fails. As a matter of fact, when I reinstalled my taillights I didn't seal around them since those plastic cups are sealed to the external skin from behind; I didn't see a reason for more sealant. I've had no leaks.

Apparently there was a time when Airstream stopped using these plastic backing cups and just started bolting the external taillight assemblies right to the skin leaving that giant hole to the inside of the trailer...but when is anyone's guess.

[dpulling]

I've been following this thread since 2009 because I have a 2008 Safari 27FB. I've checked frequently beneath my dinette for softness and found none. But this season I noticed the vinyl flooring loose at the edge, and I could feel moist wood there. I removed the corner seat and pulled back the vinyl to discover some rot, like Tennis Man's, but not under the dinette. I carved out soft wood from a 8" circle near the entry. I also found some superficial rotting near the edge of the floor, under the rear windows. I hesitate to blame Airstream for this; I know I had seepage one (Olympic Peninsula!) winter through weep holes in the wraparounds. I resealed the glass, but months later found the gutters beneath them filling up again and spilling out. I finally discovered a seal in the opening window leaked and was filling its frame, then spilling over to the gutters on each side. The rot near the entry must have been in a low spot where moisture collected. I never saw a leak around the door.

I aim to fix this myself when this season is over, and replace the floor covering. I've dropped some of the belly pan and it doesn't look awful under there. I will take the trim piece off above the tool box and check that for sealant. What is the best way to deal with these rotten spots? Wood hardener and epoxy fill? Remove whole sheets? Most of the wood is OK as it dries out; if I can avoid replacing them I will.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Don.H

It seems to me that the major issues with the Air Stream RV could be corrected with a few cents worth of wood preserative and a little calking . Why do they want to risk their reputation and future sales to save A few cents . The additional cost could be added to the cost of the AS or make it an option when purchasing the AS . I will never understand their reasoning . I hate to have mine outside out of the garage on a rainy day.

If Airstream were serious about solving this problem once and for all they would use a man made substrate like Coosa board. Waterproof, mildew-proof, fungus proof, 40-45% lighter than plywood and just as strong; easily machined and worth every penny in peace of mind. It doesn't stop water from leaking in through mouldings, windows or plumbing accidents, but it limits the amount of damage water can do.

As I have stated many times over......If I were to order a new trailer from Airstream, I would drop off the sheets of Coosa to the factory floor myself.

Cheers
Tony

[Easyrider06]

Looking at purchasing a 2005 AS Safari 28' w/slideout, have read blogs on leak issues and I am concerned. I replaced the floor in my Lance slide-on and it was interesting at best. I have to travel from upstate NY to VA to look at this unit so I don't know if it has a leakage problem yet, but if it is good to go, how much $ is a decent price? The owners are asking 29k, sounds OK, but is it? Any info/opinions would help... Regards...

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Easyrider06

Looking at purchasing a 2005 AS Safari 28' w/slideout, have read blogs on leak issues and I am concerned. I replaced the floor in my Lance slide-on and it was interesting at best. I have to travel from upstate NY to VA to look at this unit so I don't know if it has a leakage problem yet, but if it is good to go, how much $ is a decent price? The owners are asking 29k, sounds OK, but is it? Any info/opinions would help... Regards...

Hi, for a 28' with slide out, If it just has normal wear, I would say that's a great price. I wouldn't sell my 2005 Safari 25-B for that price.

[Easyrider06]

Thanks Bob, I've owned a # of classes of RVs and have always wanted an AS, expect to pay the price, but my wife and I hope to transition to at least snowbirds(Texas-type) or full-timers and want to do it in an AS... Not afraid to repair/replace items(part of the fun, LOL), just wasn't sure of how much goes with these units and/or what years (used) are decent... Any/all advice appreciated... Regards

[SeeMore]

Easyrider - I couldn't tell from your comment if the floor in your slide was the issue so excuse my error if my response targets the wrong area to inspect. The way the slide is designed in the Airstream, I doubt water could effect the slide's floor area. If there is an issue, it would appear on the main floor at the bottom of the exterior gasket which is easy to check on the leading edge (closest to the tongue). Also inspect the rear edge which is more difficult to see. The cabinet between the refrigerator and the dinette hinders access to inspection area. Pull the drawers and poke the floor in the corner. Water has never entered my unit around the slideout but I have been especially careful to treat the gasket every six months since acquisition.

Moisture has entered my unit is the rear bedroom floor area from leaks at the junction of the rear exterior trunk and shell along the infamous joint so many others describe. I removed the 1 1/8" chrome-like banding and discovered there had never been any chalking/sealant applied at build! It was simple to seal and that cured the issue. Inspect the floor along the rear wall behind the bed from curbside window to street side window. If there is a problem, you will discover soft wood.

As for price, I am not aware of a slide matching your description of the unit for so low a price in the last few years. I assume there have been no modifications and all systems/appliances are original with visible carpet/fabric wear at $29k.

I've had two dealers tell me a number closer to $38-40 would move my unit within a week and it is a 2003 28' model. I, however, have upgraded most appliances (7 cubic ft reefer, ceramic toilet, 2 LED TVs, 3 multi-speed ceiling exhaust fans, etc.), installed vinyl flooring throughout, replaced the foam cushions, and re-upholstered all seating.

If it passes the flooring inspection and the systems work, I say go for it as the slides themselves are way over engineered compared to SOBs. Be aware I'm biased from years of very satisfied ownership

[Easyrider06]

See-more, thanks for the info, my Lance unit was actually a 2002 slide-on truck camper and we bought it with the soft floor. I repaired/replaced the floor and re-sealed the windows, vents, roof, A/C, etc., and never found out exactly where it was leaking from but she is "dry" for the moment and still in use. While we had slides in a M/H and they worked well, I see them as another mechanical issue especially in older units and I would prefer not to have them in my future AS. The unit I was to look at in VA disappeared off the site and the owner didn't respond to our email, I can only assume it was sold. We are back on the hunt and our AS will surface somewhere. What are your thoughts on A/S units from the 70s, 80s or 90s? I don't want to gut and restore a unit but am more than able to repair/replace items. Since my wife wants a bit more "room" LOL, looking for a 28'-30' unit and would prefer not to deal with dealers... one day at a time... Regards

[SeeMore]

At $29k, I'm sure the VA unit moved lightning quick.

Personally, each model and decade has something to offer. It all depends on what you believe you need (the list) and which aesthetic you desire. The Airstream site has a page which contains specifications and marketing pics for various models over the decades. Its a great place to start in your quest:

Document Archive - Airstream

Your Lance experience will be handy as you consider trailers. Like you, I'm leery of stuff that breaks and minimize that type headache wherever possible in all my acquisitions (cars, motorcycles, boats, trailers, et al). Electronics are the most painful on old trailers which usually get resolved with more modern replacements once watertight is achieved. Surprisingly, the slide has been the most reliable system in my trailer.

[Easyrider06]

Seemore, sent an email to a Minnesota owner who has a 1990 AS Excella 31 and it has allegedly been redone (pics look good) their asking 19.5k. It appears that structurally these units were strengthened from those in the 70s/early 80s. I asked about the unit's repair history, corrosion issues, etc. Haven't heard back yet but am considering finding an AS owner to inspect it for me although I'm willing to travel to check out the unit myself. Any info on early 90s units would help... Regards,
James

[blmitch5]

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[cwf]

Originally Posted by Easyrider06

Seemore, sent an email to a Minnesota owner who has a 1990 AS Excella 31 and it has allegedly been redone (pics look good) their asking 19.5k. It appears that structurally these units were strengthened from those in the 70s/early 80s. I asked about the unit's repair history, corrosion issues, etc. Haven't heard back yet but am considering finding an AS owner to inspect it for me although I'm willing to travel to check out the unit myself. Any info on early 90s units would help... Regards,
James

Howdy.. have you noticed the folks willing to do 'inspections' on our forum?

Click the 'Portal' link on top left of the web based page. You will then be able to scroll down on the right side and will find a search for Inspectors by state and type. Contact someone in the area.. Perhaps they can be your 'eyes and ears' on site checking the AS you are considering.. best wishes..

[Easyrider06]

Channing, Thanks for the info, still learning this site plus, I worked with computers when they were coal-fired and have to go to my wife for help navigating (she's really good!). Got an email back from the owner of the 1990 AS and it sounds hopeful (bought new by her uncle and sold to her). Plan on making the trip next week to inspect, asked for additional pics of unit showing the undercarriage, bumper, A-frame, etc. to get a read on corrosion levels. I certainly expect "some" on a 25 year old unit and will also try to coordinate a local "inspector" to give me an eyes-on opinion before we travel from upstate NY. We'll keep you posted... Regards,
James and Rebecca

[FLMarine]

It’s been a while since I posted my issues with the rear floor in my 2009 27FB. Here’s an update and post with pictures and how I did my repairs in hopes that it will help others here that have the same issue. I will be doing this in parts so it isn’t one huge write up.

After talking with several other members on Airforums and other owners I met at RV Parks there was a trend in the similar treatment from Airstream on trying to get help and/or fixing issues. I was beyond frustrated and appalled at the common theme of Airstream’s treatment of their customers so I gave up on them. I’ve already vented earlier in the thread and won’t go into that part any more in this thread. The rest is about how I fixed the problem in hopes it will help others.

I wasn’t able to fix the floor over the winter due to various events in my life preventing me from doing so. I took it to a dealer in the springtime and was going to get it repaired by the dealer, but they had a heavy work load and kept pushing my start date back. I started a new job in the Summer and needed the Airstream to live in during the week for work so I decided to do the repair job myself while living in it. I tried to find a garage to work on it, but I couldn’t so I just got permission from the RV park owners where I am staying to work on it at my spot.

I talked with several members here about how to fix the floor and it was very helpful so thank you to those who helped with advice.

I wanted to see where the leaks were coming from before I started to cut up the floor and I didn’t want to spend a ton of money at a dealer to get it over pressure tested. I bought a nice air mover fan from amazon and cut a piece of plywood that would fit in the front storage compartment, and cut a hole in the plywood to fit the air mover fan so it would create a decent seal. I closed all the windows, sealed the fridge vent on the roof, and taped over the stove vent. It created a pretty good over pressure in the Airstream. If I opened the door a crack it created quite a wind whistle.





I then mixed a spray bottle with water and dish soap and sprayed all around the bumpers, windows, and pano windows. Here are the results.





The leak was from behind the trim on the rear bumper. The pano windows showed no leaks in the rear.

[FLMarine]

I then pulled the trim off and found that the trim piece was held in place by a couple of rivets and screws. It looked like a half drunk worker put the screws in and didn’t even use stainless steel screws so they were so rusted out two broke off as I tried to back them out. I had to drill them out. There was sealant there, but there wasn’t much and it didn’t look like it worked very well. I don’t know if it came from the factory like that or it was done before I bought it.

Never once did the Airstream dealer I bought the trailer from nor the owners manual state that I needed to pull off a trim piece to check for leaks. Heck, I didn’t even know there might have been a seal there before I came across this thread. The design for this bumper is horrible. All it would have taken was to have a lip that came up a little so the water would run off the side of the bumper instead of into the floor of the Airstream. I have an idea about making a lip out of aluminum sheets to install under the trim to the bumper. I have access to a metal cutter and bender so if I get it to work I will post the results.

Getting back to the repairs . After pulling the trim piece I taped up the bumper so no more water would come in. I had a good friend help me out with the cutting of the damaged floor. He also owns an Airstream and was very helpful getting this project started. I had already taken out the rear seats and table so we pulled up the floor trim and pulled back the vinyl flooring. It wasn’t glued down so it just pulled back.







As you can see the floor was pretty saturated with water. The bottom of the vinyl was damp and had to be cut off and thrown away. The wood was so saturated that I put my hand through the wood and could just pull pieces of it off. The reason the floor was rotted was that the foil insulation Airstream uses trapped the water that leaked through the rear bumper between the wood. We used a Dremel circular saw to cut a rectangular piece out of the floor back to where good wood was. The depth of the cut was perfect so it didn’t cut the foil and using a shop vac I vacuumed out the water you see pooled up on the foil. I vacuumed out a little more than five gallons of water that has been sitting there for a while. Yes 5 GALLONS of water was sitting under the floor for years and may be sitting under your floor too.

[FLMarine]

I set up a dehumidifier and small fan to run for several weeks to dry out the rest of the wood. There are some parts that got stained from the water but after two months of drying out it looks and feels good. I was going to use gitrot to reinforce the stained parts but it dried out nicely. I used a hydrometer to make sure it was dry (5-9% reading on the hydrometer, which was the same as the new plywood).

I then pulled up as much of the wood as possible and moved onto getting the wood out of the C channel. Over several days I spent about 12-15 man hours using needle nose pliers, an osculating tool, and a small pry bar getting the rotted wood out of the C channel. That was the hardest part of this project because I had to lay on a piece of plywood I had laid over the trailer frame and the angle was a pain to be able to see into the C channel. I found the best way was to use the osculating tool to cut “x” patterns in the wood , use the pry bar to get between the metal and wood, then finally yank it out with the pliers. A hint is that when you use the shop vac to vacuum up the sawdust from cutting you aim the exhaust out the open door so you don’t get sawdust all over your interior. Not that that happened to me, lol.






After cleaning out the C channel I cut away the insulation foil and repainted the rusted parts of the frame. I used a circular wire brush attached to my drill to strip the rust first then painted the frame. I tried using foil insulation again but I couldn’t get it to work so I decided to go with a sheet of insulation that I will drop the back of the belly pan to install.




I took a piece of the plywood that wasn’t rotted and went to a local wood supply store and got a 4x8 sheet of marine plywood. I used the scrap piece to get a sheet as close to size as possible. The marine plywood was just a bit thicker. I don’t remember the exact measurements but it was close. I was able to fix the difference using a belt sander, and I will go into that later. I also got a thin sheet of plywood to use as a template.

[FLMarine]

I used a piece of foil insulation to make a rough template of the corner in the rear then cut it and made a template using the thin plywood. After measuring several times I used the thin plywood template and a T bar to mark out the cuts on the plywood sheet . I made marks just above where the floor would be on the wall to show were the bolts in the C channel are. After cutting the board I brought it into the Airstream and use the marks on the wall to mark where the cuts in the plywood would be.



I then cut the board in “V” shapes to account for the bolts in the C channel. When I finally got the board into the floor I had to cut bigger V shapes in the plywood than I had anticipated because I didn’t take into account the little bit of movement it would take when I got the board fit into the corner.
Hint- when you get frustrated with things not fitting just perfect quit for the day or take a break because I made several cuts bigger than I should have out of frustration. I later fiber glassed over the larger cuts and it worked, but it made me do extra work.



After cutting the v’s in the board to fit into the C channel the board was just a little too thick so I used a belt sander to sand down the edges so they would fit and the board would be level with the rest of the floor.

It took about 4 hours of sanding a little off at a time then taking the board into the trailer to see if it would fit. It was like a puzzle to get the sheet into the cut hole. I ended up having to cut a little on the edges to make it fit. I purposely worked slow and did a little at a time so it would fit as flush as possible.



I finally got the sanding and cutting right and it went in very nicely. You can see in the picture below where I cut a little too much of the V’s along the wall. I made marks on the board so I knew where I would have to fiberglass later.

[eheffa]

Good Documentation.

Thanks for posting.

Consider getting rid of that Reflectix foil garbage under your new floor. It's not difficult to pull off the bottom skin and add real insulation under the floor; something that breathes, and doesn't hold any water up against the underside of the plywood. (See my post #299 on this thread for one option...)

-evan

[FLMarine]

I then took the board to a garage I had access to and used resin and fiberglass to coat the edges and make the places where I cut the V’s too much flat again. I also put a thin coat of resin on the bottom of the board and anywhere I sanded to make it more water resistant.

While I was doing the fiberglass work I redid the rear seal on the trim piece and replaced the screws with stainless steel screws. I also used a rivet tool to put back the rivets.




After the fiberglass work was done I marked the floor where the frame was on the good wood floor so I knew where to screw the new plywood sheet into. I placed the plywood sheet on the floor and drilled the new plywood into the frame using self-tapping screws. I countersunk the screws as well. I used foam to fill in the small gap between the old floor and the new sheet of plywood.







Now that the new sheet was in I needed to fiberglass over the small gap so I could install new flooring flush. I used a small level to find any other places between the new and old floor to level out using resin and fiberglass. I had done small fiberglass repairs on boats so I had a basic knowledge of using resin and fiberglass but I still learned a lot doing this project. I did several coats of resin and fiberglass to make everything level. After each layer I sanded the rough parts with a belt sander. Hint- wear a mask so you don’t inhale the fiberglass dust. I used the level and freehanded the sanding to make it level. It took about 5 coats of resin and sanding to make it level.