RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-27-2014, 01:32 PM   #461
Rivet Master
 
TinTin's Avatar
 
2009 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore , Alberta
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,762
Images: 6
Rotten floor due to water leak!

No telling how many AS sales have been lost by reading these threads during the due diligence process.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
Bob and Nancy
https://www.rwcphoto.smugmug.com
Cheer Up, Slow Down, Chill Out!
TinTin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2014, 01:43 PM   #462
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTin View Post
No telling how many AS sales have been lost by reading these threads during the due diligence process.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
Not many, they're selling them as fast as they can make them, six months behind on orders, and greatly expanding the factory size and production capability.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2014, 01:59 PM   #463
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 27' Safari FB SE
Olympic Peninsula , WA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Not many, they're selling them as fast as they can make them, six months behind on orders, and greatly expanding the factory size and production capability.
Great, now they can churn out the crap even quicker..
Caveat Emptor.
DoubleNickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2014, 03:03 PM   #464
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,748
Come on, these things are not crap. The issues are minor, and really expected with any quality brand. Look how often Ferrari's catch on fire. Like all the time, people still pay a quarter million to own them.

Yes, some of it makes me smack my head. But at the end of the day, there isn't much that can really go wrong outside of the floor rotting. My walls can't sun rot, bubble or melt like a fiberglass unit. And the Aluminum isn't leaking chemicals that may or may not cause cancer, who knows, but it was made in China so I'm sure it's safe.

I can walk around this campground I'm in now and put a hole with a hammer in every single persons camper and RV here that is made out of fiberglass. Can't just hit the Airstream and have my hammer go thru it. Dent it, sure, threw it, no. Now consider branches. We know some folks who just had totaled RV's in Ohio from the winds this week.

I think the reasons Airstreams are still on the road out numbers the small annoyances. And proper care solves most of it. It's obvious to me, the previous owner of my unit had no clue what he was suppose to be doing to maintain it. A mean a house is suppose to have the roof replaced every 5 to 10 yrs. So if you aren't caulking your Airstream, you think it's going to stay water tight?

And it makes sense, most people don't even change their own oil let alone get their tires rotated ever 20K miles.

So no, not crap.

End of rant.
__________________
Family of 5 exploring the USA with a Ram Power Wagon & Airstream in tow.
OUR BLOG | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:50 AM   #465
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
Images: 11
Rotten floor due to water leak!

I have read about a light bulb that burned for over eighty years in continuous use, why don't all light bulbs last eighty years?

Sometimes business has to come first.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 11:30 AM   #466
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
As an owner I am aware of the leak and floor rot issue so all I can do is monitor the floor regularly by probing into the plywood subfloor with a moisture detection meter so if it does get wet, I can find and fix the leak and prevent the floor from rotting.

So that's what I do as part of a regular (quarterly) inspection and maintenance routine.

And I can tell you that you may find minor leaks, or sometimes condensation from excessive interior moisture running down windows and inside walls to the plywood subfloor. Find the cause and fix it, and ensure the floor dries out.

The Airstream is a small house, and like a house it needs regular care or it will turn to crap. After warranty, that task is on me, not the house or trailer builder.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:19 PM   #467
4 Rivet Member
 
eheffa's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria , BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
Yes; as owner you have the responsibility to maintain your unit but when you are obliged to dismantle and rebuild parts of it to remedy the gross deficiencies of the factory, that demands a rethink of the quality control side at the factory. These leaks, due to errors/oversights in the manufacturing, have a way of only showing themselves once the warranty is up. (Admittedly, my first leaks due to missing caulk lines in the roof, showed up the first time I washed it... The more hidden ones took longer to declare themselves. )

Airstream charges a premium price for what they market as a premium quality product. Looking behind the curtain though, I see sloppiness and a company resting on its former glory.

I really like my Airstream but the quality of the workmanship is shameful. They need to pull up their socks or they risk becoming another 'American Motors'; remember them?

I don't think we should make excuses for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:33 PM   #468
4 Rivet Member
 
eheffa's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria , BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
@dkottum:

Hi Doug,

Actually, I think anyone owning an Airstream should understand that prudent 'regular maintenance' includes pulling off the rear trim along the bumper and removing the tail lights. At that point one should repair & recaulk everything the factory didn't. If there are any deficiencies in the caulking, I would also suggest pulling off the Belly sheathing and replacing the underfloor insulation where it traps the water against the plywood.

I was lucky. My floors were only sodden not rotten. If I had waited another 6 months to a year to do my 'regular maintenance', it would have been much worse.

- evan

See:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f456...ml#post1382634


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:55 PM   #469
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 27' Safari FB SE
Olympic Peninsula , WA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldAdventure View Post
So if AIRSTREAM isn't caulking your Airstream, you think it's going to stay water tight?
Fixed that for you....
DoubleNickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 01:51 PM   #470
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Evan (eheffa), I believe your advice is extreme and more of a rant than useful.

And I am not making excuses for Airstream, rather suggesting something that may be useful to fellow Airstreamers. If you need to bitch about your Airstream, or tell them how to run their company, don't tell me, Airstream has a Customer service number on their website. Call them, I don't care to hear it.

Regular (quarterly) maintenance has worked well for us and others.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 02:45 PM   #471
4 Rivet Member
 
eheffa's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria , BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
Rotten floor due to water leak!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Evan (eheffa), I believe your advice is extreme and more of a rant than useful.

And I am not making excuses for Airstream, rather suggesting something that may be useful to fellow Airstreamers. If you need to bitch about your Airstream, or tell them how to run their company, don't tell me, Airstream has a Customer service number on their website. Call them, I don't care to hear it.

Regular (quarterly) maintenance has worked well for us and others.
Sorry Doug, I am not trying to be provocative or "Rant". I do not wish to offend or upset you.

I am merely saying that I too thought I was doing due diligence in regular and careful quarterly maintenance. (You appear to be suggesting that that is all that is needed). I checked my trailer religiously and regularly for any signs of water entry. As it turned out, I could not make up for what were significant breaches and deficiencies in the original assembly of the unit. The problem I describe appears to be common to more than a few owners; I am not alone in this unpleasant discovery.

I live hours and a ferry ride away from the nearest Airstream Dealer and thousands of miles across a border from the mother ship. I had to fix the factory assembly mistakes myself. It took me months of work to take my unit apart and rebuild it in my "spare" time. This was not a failure in my maintenance. This was a failure of quality control at the factory.

I am simply being honest in relating my disappointment. I am not trying to be hyperbolic or offensive to you in suggesting that short of removing the trim pieces and tail lights, the owner has no way of knowing whether he is sitting on a time bomb. (I'm not sure I would trust the moister meter - but that's your call.)

Have you ever called Airstream? I have. They told me that regular maintenance is essential and apparently that includes disassembly and repair of what they did not do properly at the factory - Not their problem apparently. They are right, it's now my problem except when word gets out that these units are subject to these sorts of significant failures. Great business model eh?

Can you imagine the furor if one of the Big Three regularly produced trucks with these sorts of manufacturing flaws? Are you really suggesting that because we love our Airstreams, we are supposed to give them a pass on this?

This forum performs a great service. If not for posts like this thread, I would have been oblivious to the fact that my unit was affected by the same problems and was on a one way road to floor rot.

Sweeping this issue under the carpet (so to speak) is not the answer. Maybe, one day Airstream will do a better job. Until then, we owe it to each other to hold them accountable.

-evan

PS. Seriously, I do suggest removing the rear trim & tail lights as 'maintenance'. It's a fairly simple procedure & if there is no problem - great! But if the caulk is deficient, it's much simpler as a preventative job than waiting for it to become a restorative job.
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 08:19 PM   #472
Rivet Master
 
TinTin's Avatar
 
2009 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore , Alberta
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,762
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa View Post

Can you imagine the furor if one of the Big Three regularly produced trucks with these sorts of manufacturing flaws? Are you really suggesting that because we love our Airstreams, we are supposed to give them a pass on this?
Well said, and my feelings exactly.

The perception of 'top quality' is a big factor in the premium price that Airstreams command. It's important that the company gets the message when the quality begins to suffer, whether through design faults or deficiencies on the line.
__________________
Bob and Nancy
https://www.rwcphoto.smugmug.com
Cheer Up, Slow Down, Chill Out!
TinTin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:15 PM   #473
Rivet Puller
 
SeeMore's Avatar
 
2003 28' Safari S/O
Atlanta Burbs , Georgia
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,629
Images: 3
... if one of the Big Three regularly produced trucks with these sorts of manufacturing flaws?...

I think some facts are in order. Specifically, there are literally 'millions' of cars and trucks from almost every major brand being recalled at the moment. The issues run from defective air bags to accelerator issues to burning batteries that are life threatening which Airstream's water leaks certainly are not.

The latest marketing data report continued sales at a rate higher than experienced for years. So, it certainly hasn't hindered consumer purchasing behaviors nor materially damaged brand loyalty. Heck, there are still people who swear by Ford diesels after billions in warranty claims and a class action lawsuit.
SeeMore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:21 PM   #474
Rivet Master
 
TinTin's Avatar
 
2009 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore , Alberta
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,762
Images: 6
Rotten floor due to water leak!

I guess the difference is that Airstream has never (publicly) admitted any deficiency regarding the rear leak problem. Nor has it recalled and repaired the affected units.

Not life threatening certainly, only brand threatening.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
Bob and Nancy
https://www.rwcphoto.smugmug.com
Cheer Up, Slow Down, Chill Out!
TinTin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:29 PM   #475
Rivet Puller
 
SeeMore's Avatar
 
2003 28' Safari S/O
Atlanta Burbs , Georgia
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,629
Images: 3
Brand threatening? Water leaks have been around for decades and well documented, here for sure. However, there is no evidence it has materially affected sales which is what ultimately causes a reaction from a firm like Thor. We may each be able to quote a skiddish buyer or two, but an exploding wait list for delivery belies the statement so Thor continues merrily on it way.

Ford never acknowledged its issues until others stepped in. Likewise, for most of the other recall items mentioned. Hyperbole may feel good and work well for politicians but it does not change corporate behaviors. Rapidly expanding the work force to man the new manufacturing facility most likely means the incident rate will increase rather than diminish.
SeeMore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:50 PM   #476
2 Rivet Member
 
TXMYTX's Avatar
 
2009 27' FB International
Rio Medina , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 41
Rotten floor due to water leak!

If I had known of the problem, and Airstream's total disregard of the numerous complaints about this issue, I wouldn't have purchased one. Fact of the matter is, I've had to fight tooth and nail for almost all repairs. Overall, I love the trailer, but I hate the level of customer service.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
TXMYTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:17 PM   #477
Rivet Puller
 
SeeMore's Avatar
 
2003 28' Safari S/O
Atlanta Burbs , Georgia
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,629
Images: 3
Insight, leak issues and wood floor damage are not limited to Airstreams.
SeeMore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:22 PM   #478
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,008
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
I have owned but one A$ product. It is 41 years old.
I expected problems with a unit 36 years old at the time of purchase.
I had some minor floor rot issues. Which didn't surprise me. Again, because of the age.
When I read threads like this. I think. BOY! Am I glad I didn't lay out big bucks for a new(er) unit.
It is obvious to me that Thor or any of the previous owners of A$ are not interested in problem solving. It's all about the bottom line. Have you ever heard the saying? "There is a sucker born every minute"
As part of my regular maintenance. I check the caulking around the lights etc.. When it comes to the light fixtures. I caulk only the top and sides. No Caulk on the bottom. My logic is. If you caulk all the way around and there is a leak. The fixture will fill up to the point where the water runs in where the wires come thru the skin. If the bottom is left unsealed. The water just runs out.
Along that same line of thought. Why not have drains in the "C" channel and other preventative measures to eliminate the floor rot. How about using a different material for flooring?
As long as people are lined up to buy these rigs. Nothing will change. You can bet that Thor is not expanding to improve quality. They are doing it because they see $$$$$$.


Sent from my iPod touch using Airstream Forums
TG Twinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 10:32 AM   #479
Rivet Master
 
Florida 55's Avatar

 
2008 27' Safari FB SE
Pfafftown , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 904
Images: 42
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Not many, they're selling them as fast as they can make them, six months behind on orders, and greatly expanding the factory size and production capability.
A sales backlog today is meaningless if the product the company ships everyday doesn't meet customer expectations. A reader over time of these forums will get a clear impression Airstream is not fully delivering the product experience expected by many purchasers of its current product lines. Any potential competitor can see Airstream is consistently raising the prices of its products at a rate greater than inflation because it lacks competition. Rising sales and increasing margins are a powerful incentive for other companies. It is very likely an existing or new competitor today is tearing apart Airstream's products and figuring out how to dramatically improve the design at the same or lower production cost per unit.

If Airstream continues to grow and be successful it is possible we will see a resurrection of the Avion, Silverstreak, Spartan, Boles Arrow or other vintage silver trailer brand or even an entirely new premium silver aluminum travel trailer brand. As a great believer in the American dream and the vision of entrepreneurs I hope there is a young gal or guy tinkering in a garage somewhere who loves the concept and has a better idea. Airstream, and its customers, will benefit greatly from a strong competitor.

With respect to the debate on this thread regarding leaks being a maintenance issue or a quality issue, consider two different travel trailer brand promises:

1) Company A - From time to time a travel trailer can leak. It is important the owner be diligent in inspecting seams frequently and taking action to repair seams on your Airstream at the first sign of cracking or leaking. Some leaks may occur in seams that are not visible and we leave it up to you to determine how to locate and repair those seams. Be aware that leaks not quickly fixed can result in major structural repairs costing thousands of dollars.
2) Company B - We want you to spend time in the outdoors enjoying your trailer and not devoting your free time to maintenance chores related to keeping water out of your trailer when it rains. Therefore we guarantee your Brand B trailer will not leak for at least 10 years after purchase and will cheerfully repair or replace the vehicle at our expense if it does.

If you were purchasing a silver aluminum trailer, which one would you perceive as having the higher quality? If Brand B existed, would you consider leaking seams a maintenance item or quality defect?
__________________
Chuck
Airstream - 2008 Safari 27FB SE (Sweet Pea)
TV - 2011 Ford F250 Lariat, 6.7 Diesel, 4X4 (Brutus)
TAC FL-55 | WBCCI 3823 - Unit 12 | AIR 48265
Florida 55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 02:22 PM   #480
Rivet Master
 
PharmGeek's Avatar
 
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Hoover , Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,525
The fact the price rises faster than inflation dramatically is frustrating but the market is what it is - that would be awesome to see competition - but still - AS seems relative to others so rare - so niche - at least here in the southeast

We gave a walk through today for a couple that hand built a teardrop trailer - great folks - he quickly admired the craftsmanship - he looked it over thorough - looked under - around - opened doors - etc...

We spoke about the need to watch for leaks and concerns about that...


I think AS could offer a longer period of protection from leaks if the buyer agreed to have an annual inspection at a dealer?

It sucks that people pay several tens of thousands to have new ones leak - the front storage door on ours leaked a bunch - and we would never have noticed if we had not used the moisture meter - and AS seems reluctant to even recommend at all to owners anything about such monitoring when asked directly....

We love our AS but I think it's insane that a) new expensive ones have leaked within the first year and b) AS does not begin to tell people about moisture meters or any meaningful way to catch a leak you failed to see.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
“The atoms of our bodies are traceable to stars that manufactured them...We are not figuratively, but literally stardust.”


PharmGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lots of rotten floor HiHoAgRV Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 110 01-08-2012 11:04 PM
What to do about my rotten floor??? utahredrock Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 15 11-03-2011 01:38 PM
What to do? Rotten floor cbl3030 Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 13 08-24-2006 01:25 PM
Rotten floor BurnBound Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 16 02-05-2006 09:03 PM
Water Leak, Floor Repair Cstar Leaks - Weatherstrips, Gaskets, Caulks & Sealants 1 02-05-2005 05:58 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.