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Old 03-11-2013, 08:05 PM   #261
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2008 27' International FB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legandwillyg View Post
Thanks for the info. Our 2009 FC 27FB has a discolored area under the dinette. I have already found and repaired leaks at the rear windows (do not believe this to be the source of the problem). After 1 year of ownership and multiple problems, I find it hard to believe the newer models will last any longer than any other brand out there. Mark me down for someone who will not buy another Airscream. Wish I had found this forum B4 purchase.

Bill
Sorry you, like me found the problem too late. However, We still love this machine and, (like my Harley and my Ford) will make modifications to keep it running for the long haul. It does, however, make me giggle a little when I watch the AS corporate videos claiming "built to last". Weeellll, yes except for a few little things. Ford has their 6.0 Diesel, Toyota had their gas pedal, we got a leaky bumper. The good news is that if you fix the leak and dry/treat the floor now it will probably be OK but the procedure is taking me weeks.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:04 PM   #262
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Application of the CPES

So, the floor is fairly dry after a week of Dehumidification heatpump and fans 24/7. I lightly sanded the floor with 100 grit paper, pulled the errant staples and vacuumed and wiped down the floor. I tightened all the elevator screws. Sorry for the Double Post.

I placed a band of tape around the walls. I had the 2 pint kit (A + B Epoxy) and used half of it for two coats. CPES Warm Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer
I bought it locally at our hometown hardware (Friedmans).
Still tacky after a few hours. The fumes are tremendous! You definitely need all windows open and fantastic fans on high. Lot's of bad and flammable chemicals you bet, just like cigarettes. <I used to know a kid that smoked while stripping paint with zipstrip. I always stayed near an exit if he was on the job and tuned my ears to listen for the "whoosh".>
Anyway, CPES applied. Proper curing time 5-7 days.

Brad

Here's the pix (Sorry they are sideways). Prepped, 1st coat and 2nd coat. The fire extinguisher was holding the flooring up. I wouldn't have been much help in an emergency. Usually I leave it just outside the door while camping. Get out first, fight fire second.:
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:55 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by altamont View Post
Is Airstream going to step up to the plate and repair this for you? this is obviously a case of poor construction from the factory. Probably the same guy that sealed my shower. Are you going to replace your entire floor?
From what I've been reading, Air Stream tends to stay in the dugout, rather than step up to the plate. If Air Stream gets enough backlash in sales, they may realize what they are doing is costing them more in sales, then in avoiding responsibility. American car manufacturers were doing this, and it sure didn't work for them. Now japanese car makers are starting to do it too. Watch what happens to them! Sorrry about the tangent.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:46 PM   #264
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Tangent

Virtual Soapbox app ON:
I realize that some of you might wonder why I tackled this job myself instead of chasing Airstream or the local dealer for a remedy. Here are the facts/rumors that I used in my decision:
1) My Airstream is out of warranty.
2) Iím the 3rd owner (the first never took it off the lot, I bought locally from #2)
3) Time and money VS time and money. The only reasonable remedy Iíve seen in the forums was to spend months corresponding with JC and then take my case to JC with the trailer and stand in a VPís or Presidentís office for a while and work out a deal OR take it a local reputable AS shop after negotiating a local inspection. JC is about $2000 worth of fuel and two weeks away (round trip) from work plus per diem etc. JC only seems to respond favorably if you meet them halfway with time/effort/expense which makes sense from a corporate resource point of view.
4) Local repair. When I asked about a reputable AS certified service center near me on the forum I got <crickets>. When I tried to order parts a few years ago from my nearest certified service center they never called me back. Andyís Inland RV office in SOCAL answered the phone and fulfilled my order on the same call. Inland RV was great to deal with. The local dealer still hasnít called me back. The last thing I wanted to do was to push Airstream to fix my problem and then have the local repair center do a hatchet job on it because theyíd be billing AS not me.
5) When routed to a local SOB repair shop by a friend the guy said ďDrill a few holes in the bottom and itíll dry outĒ. Not very comforting words. The best part of this experience so far was finding Vinnie locally, someone I can trust to do the job correctly in the future. I met Vinnie after I got into the job with both feet.
6) Going after a big business with claims like this is OK if you have time and patience. However, if challenging class action etc. it seems that these things donít go far unless wrongful death is involved or millions of customers are affected. Even when I get mailings from class action settlements that I am a participant (by class) of, they usually offer less than 30 bucks per affected consumer and the paperwork that you have to file to receive your miserable check in 6-10 weeks is ridiculous. I donít believe we can affect new sales to any degree because the sales brochures sell a dream thatís hard to derail with talk of wet floors, much less broken hitches and flipped vehicles.
7) I do believe that Airstream watches these forums and attempts to make incremental changes to correct flaws. I bet they (somebody in the design team) kicked themselves for not leaving in the fiberglass lip that seems to be in the Flying Cloud model that prevents this bumper leak issue from happening. It was probably a design improvement gone bad. Iím hoping that they will redesign the whole tail to protect the flooring all together. A small wrap of aluminum and some bumper top, c-channel and insulation drainage is all thatís required (I donít think a simple gasket is sufficient). No need to replace lithium Ion batteries etc. (Sorry Boeing). So reporting it here is useful, especially when we show detailed fixes. I understand why JC doesnít officially reply as I work for a corporation also but Iím sure that they are taking notes.

So, call me wise and seasoned, call me lazy and a wimp, the fight and cost of such is not justified based on what I know and the time/energy / resources I have at my disposal. Iíve also seen fights like this eat people up inside and all I want to do is enjoy my Airstream with my family safely and comfortably.

Stepping off soapbox now.

Brad
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:27 PM   #265
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Dry Shiny and hard as nails. Clear Epoxy Penetrating Sealer. Only time will tell how this will hold up.


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Old 03-17-2013, 09:32 PM   #266
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Got the floor down and the trim on.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:33 PM   #267
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Floor and trim



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Old 03-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #268
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Replaced furniture. Notice screw inside hole cut for heating hose. If you can't remove the seat next to the furnace, double check this. Also, I replaced all screws in the floor with stainless as most were rusted. If you are looking for signs of floor moisture, pull a screw from the trim or subwoofer clips. If they are rusted or the aluminum tubes of the dinette seat are oxidized, you probably have had or currently have some water in the floor.


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Old 03-22-2013, 06:51 AM   #269
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I'm contemplating purchasing a 2008 Classic 25FB at a local AS deale. I've arranged to have a volunteer inspector to check it out today with me. Is it safe to assume every 2008 FB will have this issue? When I looked at the trailer a few days ago I noticed the vinyl under the dinettes at the curves was pulling up. The exposed plywood appeared to be sound when tapping on it and I couldn't see any mold or stains but I'm a newbie on AS. I do have a moisture meter now and we will use it today.

I really can't expect this Airstream dealer to drop the rear belly pan and remove the rear trim band as part of a PDI. Should I pay for the rear band removal, resealing and replacement if we find evidence of moisture in the floor or should I just walk away and get my deposit back? I don't really have a place to do the work myself nor would I trust my work, but then could I trust the dealer to do the work?

Thanks

Kelvin
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:44 AM   #270
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Should the whole lower belt line trim be removed from the whole trailer and sealed? If its leaking by the rear bumper couldn't it also leak any where along its length.

Kelvin
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
Should the whole lower belt line trim be removed from the whole trailer and sealed? If its leaking by the rear bumper couldn't it also leak any where along its length.

Kelvin
Hi Kelvin,

Regarding the Airstream check out, take a look at my posts on this and the previous page and see the water stain on the floor. Check all those areas for excessive moisture (> 25%). The problem is exacerbated by the insulation under the floor so the water soaks the rear area up to the first frame crossmember. If you find moisture you should ask the dealer to dry it out, seal the bumper and slit the insulation underneath to let moisture out in the future. Knowing what I know now, I'd ask to have the bumper sealed as it is pretty clear that the factory didn't seal them until recently. You can print the pictures of my floor and unsealed bumper area and take them with you if it helps. The dealer has to be aware of this issue. If the dealer says the bumper is sealed and there is no moisture, ask for a year warranty and keep checking the floor for moisture.

RE: sealing the rub rail, in my view the top of the rails should be sealed with parbond/Acryl-R all around the trailer. However, sealing under is not really necessary as there's no place but the bumper that holds and pools water against/under the rail. Water on the rest of the body will simply run past the rail to the ground. Others here that are older and wiser may have other views.

In any case, don't let this issue keep you from the airstream you want at the price point you need to hit. With all it's faults, we love our 28FB!!

Brad
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:37 AM   #272
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Uhhhh, 27FB (which is really longer than a 28, go figure)
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:29 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
Should the whole lower belt line trim be removed from the whole trailer and sealed? If its leaking by the rear bumper couldn't it also leak any where along its length.

Kelvin
Hi, my trailer doesn't have a problem, but I sealed the trim strip where it sits on top of the bumper plate and at both ends of the trim where it meets the frame. No need to remove the moulding.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:45 AM   #274
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I used the inspection service on this forum to have someone with AS experience. I choose our Airforum colleague DKB_SATX (David) to perform the inspection. We were able to confirm no water penetration had occurred either in the rear dinette area or the front bedroom area. We used a moisture meter and poked around the floor under the dinette and no moisture was revealed. We removed a few screws under the dinette areas and near the door entrance and didn't see any rust. We checked around the front storage door and it was dry. This Classic 25FB has carpet in the bedroom and under the bed there is still plastic on the carpet and no sign of moisture or evidence of mold. No evidence of moisture under the carpet adjacent to the front pano windows.

Checking under the rear bumper and the belly pan there is no sign of corrosion. The Classic has a bumper drawer with a rubber mat inside and there is a trace of light surface white corrosion under the mat. There are small holes in the corners to drain water and they are corrosion free. I'll clean that out and treat it.

With my mind at ease we are going to proceed with the purchase. We plan to keep this Airstream under covered storage.

If you need an inspector in the DFW area, DKB_SATX, is a great choice and he is a nice guy!

Kelvin
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:42 AM   #275
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Congrats! And yes you did find a very nice and knowledgable guy to help you out!
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:05 AM   #276
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Excellent news Kelvin! Congratulations on your purchase!

Happy Airstreaming!

Brad
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:29 AM   #277
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VERY Disappointed with Airstream

Just after a camping trip around Christmas, my wife discovered a soft spot under the dinnette in our 06 Safari. I took my Airstream to a local RV restoration service (Cooperative Motor Works in Orlando, FL) and they discovered that the rear floor was rotted. I contacted the Airstream factory and the only help they would offer was to talk to my RV repair guy and tell him how to fix it. They did indicate that if I wanted to bring my camper to the factory they could offer a reduced repair cost. The rot was caused by poor manufacturing in that the joint between the wall and floor along the rear bumper was not sealed. The repair ended up costing me about $1,800. I love my airstream camper but I can tell you my opinion of Airstream the company has been ruined.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:53 PM   #278
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We had our 2008 Flying Cloud 27FB rear leak/floor repaired in Aug 2010, step in the door a week ago and.....extremely soft floor!!! After back and forth with Airstream back in 2010 they ok'd the dealer to repair and replace vinyl flooring with diamond plate under dinette. (still was told maintenance issue) I know the answer that awaits me, should I even try to pursuit? Dissappointed does not even begin to describe my feelings!
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:49 AM   #279
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In the beginning... I would notice some wet places in the bedroom (carpet and down the walls) however it was virtually impossible to figure out the how with the heavily "carpeted" walls. It would alway dry up quickly. We also has disco riling in our vinyl but it was in the doorway (and under the doormat). We have 4 kids and two dogs with a light color vinyl flooring - water damage was not high on the list of reasoning why the beige vinyl was turning brown.

My mom had been sick so we did not camp a lot this past year but the camper we examined the inside and out regularly. A month ago we pull the camper out and my husband almost went all of the way through the floor by the door. Also, it looked like we had mice and we have NEVER had any kind of rodent or insect in the camper. It turns out - we had roaches!! They were in the rotten floor and everywhere else (even in the walls between the aluminum and carpet. When we pulled the vinyl back the floor was SOAKING wet (even though we had not had rain in awhile) and the floor and walls were molding and mildewed.

Long story - but now cabinets are out and the rotten floor has been taken out. I have also taken down curtains for the moment and removed the carpet from the aluminum walls. We have been trying to figure out where exactly the water was coming in. It has been 80 degrees and storming but no water was coming into the camper anywhere. And then... Living in south Alabama we have lots of rain and pretty violent temperature ranges in the spring and fall.

Yesterday, our temperature drops 30-40 degrees during the day and we have a mild steady rain all day. I went to check last night and the camper was leaking in several places. Water was streaming down the walls. I have not gotten to removing all of the glue from the walls - so where there is glue you can see the lines of the water! And I guess I now have our answer. Our seals are failing due to expansion and contraction...

Now to solve this currently ongoing problem that SHOULD NOT exist on a camper that was VERY expensive and was sold to "last a lifetime". When my husband (whose undergrad was physics) gets home from a mission trip to Haiti, he'll get the job of figuring out what to use to block the water in all weather!
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:51 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by SuperTrouper View Post
Hi Kelvin,

Regarding the Airstream check out, take a look at my posts on this and the previous page and see the water stain on the floor. Check all those areas for excessive moisture (> 25%). The problem is exacerbated by the insulation under the floor so the water soaks the rear area up to the first frame crossmember. ....

In any case, don't let this issue keep you from the airstream you want at the price point you need to hit. With all it's faults, we love our 28FB!!

Brad
Thank you for all your helpful posts & Pics.

Just working through similar issues on my 2008 25 FB SE. Wet but no rot I don't think. Thanks to you & others alerting m to this discouraging problem.

-evan
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