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Old 12-26-2011, 01:22 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by glenamoy View Post
I've been reading this for a year or so, watching the trainwrecks of rotted floors as they come in. Anyone who has read this ever-lengthening thread of disasters from start to finish will know that I posted quite a lot on this problem two years ago. My experience is a bit like Captain Hanks, although I did not bite on the offer of a partial fix from the factory, which is over a thousand miles from here.

Every now and then you read a post on this thread that looks as if all is Sweetness and Light....that Airstream has fixed the problem, and that we should look to maintaining our vehicles better, and that we should "remain calm and have good intent." Don't buy a word of it....some of these posts look like plants. Read the whole thread. See the dozens of people who posted on the SAME problem, and how they were stiffed by a reprehensible company who would not fully stand behind their product, who would not issue a recall on what was a manufacturing defect pure and simple, who would 'fix' the problem (years later) on their assembly lines but who would not post warnings on their website or in their users manuals to warn their (once) loyal customers. This is not a company to do business with.

Well said. There are some really happy posts here on what could be a rather unhappy event in the ownership of an Airstream camper. I find them few and hard to believe. I for one have paid a bundle of money to have mine repaired. It was only 3.5 years old and needed 6 feet of a 22 foot trailer floor replaced. "looks like you never took the time to reseal your bumper area each year" was what I got for an answer. "You know you have to do yearly maintenance - even on an Airstream!" Wow - I would have expected that for a 10 year old unit but not one 3-4 years old. And - for it to have been an area not associated with any RV repair maintenance area like vents, windows, or a normal skin penetration is just not something you would normally expect.
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Old 12-26-2011, 01:32 PM   #202
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Luckily, I found my bumper leak when the trailer was jacked up to change tires and water poured out. Caught it in time so that damage had not been done. Had I not been watching when the trailer was jacked, would have never discovered the leak until I had floor rot.

The problem occurs so often, it seems, that my advicde to anyone I meet on the road w/ a trailer close in years to mine (06) is to drop the pan and check for the leak or take it to an As dealer and have those people do it. They will be very familiar w/the issue.

I posted in the thread I started when I sought advice re the leak the fix I used.

Would I recommend an AS or anything built by Thor? No.

Do I still love mine every time I look at it? Yes. I continue to be a sap for beauty, be it in women, vintage triumph motorcycles, Boston Whaler boats, vintage Gretsch elexctric guitars or MB autos.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #203
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28ft international soft spot by door what size plywood and can i ,use ,can i just repair the 2ftx2ft area what size screws
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:29 PM   #204
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You need to find the source of the leak before you fix the floor.

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Old 03-12-2012, 05:41 AM   #205
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perryg it was leaking from the door dripedge
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:50 AM   #206
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Well,

Looks like it's my turn.

2008 27FB Int'l Vinyl cork floor. I sealed the back bumper with instructions from the forum about 6 months ago. We haven't seen much rain since. I keep a passive Dehumidifier in the trailer when stored and get some water in it.
I Ordered a General Tools MMD4E moisture tester for $30 and tried it out this weekend. It's the pain of confirming what was suspected. 45% wet under the dinette table and 50% (high limit of the instrument) inside the door. The floor under the dinette is wetter toward the center and dryer near the back wall so i think I sealed the bumper leak.

The wood feels hard enough so I was thinking of pulling the dinette and sofa out and pulling back the cork flooring and drying from the top. Driving to JC is not an option from Cali for me. I'll keep sifting through the threads but would appreciate any personal experiences removing furniture and peeling back the flooring to dry (I'd hate to destroy the flooring or have to replace half with a seam in the middle of the kitchen.)

Thinking about getting a local carpenter to assist.

I was also thinking about cutting a small sealable port (Marine?) into the floor under the dinette to allow me to blow dry warm air under the dinette to dry the space and insulation above the belly pan. Any experiences doing this?

And lastly, any rating for Toscano RV in Los Banos regarding this type of work should I decide to hand it off to the Pros? I wouldn't think twice about ponying up the $$$ and going to JC if I had the time.

I'm sure glad I got the meter even though I had a feeling that it would confirm bad news. The good news is that the "creak" in the floor that I hear in the bedroom is dry <7% so all my problems are concentrated in the rear of the trailer.

I'll post pictures of my rear bumper seal project in a few weeks.

Thanks,

Brad
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #207
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Nice tool! Uh, may I borrow it for a few days, please?
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:08 PM   #208
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Sure but I'll need it back as it will be an important tool to have on hand for ongoing maintenance. All for the price of about 8 Gallons of diesel.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:42 PM   #209
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Sure but I'll need it back as it will be an important tool to have on hand for ongoing maintenance. All for the price of about 8 Gallons of diesel.
SuperTrouper, I have never seen one of these moisture meters used and I am interested in buying one of them. Do you need to poke the probes through the vinyl floor and into the wood of the subfloor to get an accurate reading?
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:20 PM   #210
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floor rot

I recently purchased an 07 bambi and noticed the same situation in front of my dinette im not happy
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:29 PM   #211
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Dum-dum-te-dum, da-da-dum-te-dum-te-dum

(Mozart funeral march)

The bad news - extensive floor damage under the dinette can run $4000 if you have the pros do it. That does include fixing the underlying leak problems.

The less bad news - if you don't fulltime you don't need the pros to do it. (I fulltime)


The rest of the story:
  1. no point in fixing the floor if you don't find and fix the leaks - they are everywhere around the vista views. and the little rain cap over the center window. and around the door. and the antenna, and the skylight, and .................... ad nauseum
  2. Johnny git your gun and vulkem, vulkem, Johnny git your gun and follow me
  3. ultimately you'll probably want to replace the skylight with a decent one. (damn, can't find the link... someone post it please. The OEM skylights are pure zhit!)
  4. once you've re-sealed everything from the roof to the lower trim band (also a BIG source of leaks!) and the floor, then pressure test for leaks, no other test is definitive.
  5. The work is a bit tedious but not beyond the skill of anyone who can use a nail gun without ending up looking like the guest star at a crucifixion.
  6. Making neat seams with Airstream appropriate caulk. BLUE PAINTERS TAPE is the big trick! Put it on either side of the seam. Apply caulk, smooth if needed. Wait 10 minutes, pull tape. Resist all temptation to touch the stuff until it finishes curing.
The quickest way to spot how bad the damage is - pull the belly pan under the dinette. If wet fiberglass cascades onto you and the bottom of the plywood looks soaked you're going to be doing a partial floor replacement. All things considered you might want to treat the new piece with "rot doctor" before installing it. (make it virtually impervious to water). A lot of the leaks tend to hide between the inner and outer seams so you can live in ignorant bliss for quite a while. Drilling "weep holes" through the C Channel near the ribs and again sealing with Rot Doctor or a similar product, then allowing for the water to escape without entering the belly pan seems to be a logical choice too.

Ever seen an old "pie safe"? They have tin doors, with outward facing punched holes. The idea was that the ragged edge prevented flies and other small irritating critters from entering, but let air circulate. Before you put the belly pan back up, you might want to get a VERY small punch and whack a few SMALL holes through low spots in the belly pan so any new water can drain.

Note to self: buying another new Airstream - will happen when the company offers a 5 year warranty on the floor (and starts pressure testing the units at the end of the line!). Note to anyone else buying a new or used Airstream - LEARN how to do a pressure test with a heavy duty fan - buy only after you've done one. How many months do some units sit on the dealer's lots in the weather?

Paula Ford... and yes Bob Wheeler, I have a private life ongoing life crisis washing over me right now, so I'm letting an Avion purchase slide... but I who am natively lazy and really like both the 27 Eddie Bauer and the 30 Serenity with recliners... when it comes time to purchase... will seriously consider paying a custom cabinet maker remodel an old AVION!!!!!
(here endeth the rant)
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:10 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3

SuperTrouper, I have never seen one of these moisture meters used and I am interested in buying one of them. Do you need to poke the probes through the vinyl floor and into the wood of the subfloor to get an accurate reading?
Yes the probe pins / holes are tiny but do puncture the flooring which means the probes can also check moisture in your hand if your not careful! Our floor is a cork pattern and I checked moisture in a few places and could not see any marks left on the floor. After finding the moisture I thought maybe I could use the tool to "ventilate" the flooring to let the wood dry but it would be an arduous process ;-)
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:42 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by SuperTrouper View Post
Well,

Looks like it's my turn.

2008 27FB Int'l Vinyl cork floor. I sealed the back bumper with instructions from the forum about 6 months ago. We haven't seen much rain since. I keep a passive Dehumidifier in the trailer when stored and get some water in it.
I Ordered a General Tools MMD4E moisture tester for $30 and tried it out this weekend. It's the pain of confirming what was suspected. 45% wet under the dinette table and 50% (high limit of the instrument) inside the door. The floor under the dinette is wetter toward the center and dryer near the back wall so i think I sealed the bumper leak.

The wood feels hard enough so I was thinking of pulling the dinette and sofa out and pulling back the cork flooring and drying from the top. Driving to JC is not an option from Cali for me. I'll keep sifting through the threads but would appreciate any personal experiences removing furniture and peeling back the flooring to dry (I'd hate to destroy the flooring or have to replace half with a seam in the middle of the kitchen.)

Thinking about getting a local carpenter to assist.

I was also thinking about cutting a small sealable port (Marine?) into the floor under the dinette to allow me to blow dry warm air under the dinette to dry the space and insulation above the belly pan. Any experiences doing this?

And lastly, any rating for Toscano RV in Los Banos regarding this type of work should I decide to hand it off to the Pros? I wouldn't think twice about ponying up the $$$ and going to JC if I had the time.

I'm sure glad I got the meter even though I had a feeling that it would confirm bad news. The good news is that the "creak" in the floor that I hear in the bedroom is dry <7% so all my problems are concentrated in the rear of the trailer.

I'll post pictures of my rear bumper seal project in a few weeks.

Thanks,

Brad
Brad,

I recently felt your pain. My new to me 2008 27FB Safari revealed its floor rot on our second outing when the dinette leg punched through the rotten floor underneath. We ended up taking it to Jackson Center where they removed all of the interior cabinetry, shower, bathroom, etc so they could roll back the vinyl floor. About 1/3 of the plywood floor was replaced along with the vinyl. By taking out the cabinetry, seating, shower, etc. there are no seams or cutouts on the floor. Our bill was very close to the number Paula provided for the "pros".

Ours was leaking in a number of places. The pano window, running lights, around the door, and a seam on the roof. Our skylight had already been replaced. Testing to find the leaks and repairs cost another $800. This was particularly disappointing given we had an Airstream dealer inspect the used trailer before buying it and specifically asked the dealer to check for leaks and floor rot. Five months later, despite storing it inside a warehouse, the rot was revealed. Goes to show the dealers aren't always good at identifying problems even when paid to do so.

Someone from California would have to vouch for the Airstream dealers in your area. You might also talk to Uwe at Area 63 Productions: 714-538-0485 salwender@sbcglobal.net He and his firm are located in Southern California and do restoration work. He has a very good reputation.

You might also call Airstream, ask to speak to Bob Wheeler (the president) and politely discuss your disappointment with him. Some of the Forums threads suggest some people have persuaded Airstream to assist or cover these types of repairs even out of warranty.

Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you want more details
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:54 PM   #214
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[QUOTE="Foiled Again"](Mozart funeral march)

Thanks Paula! see my comments inline.

Regarding "Pros", who's recommended in Norcal (anyone)?

The rest of the story:[*]no point in fixing the floor if you don't find and fix the leaks - they are everywhere around the vista views. and the little rain cap over the center window. and around the door. and the antenna, and the skylight, and .................... ad nauseum
[understood][*]Johnny git your gun and vulkem, vulkem, Johnny git your gun and follow me
[Understood, Have Vulkem, Silkaflex,Parbond and Acryl-R and have redone vistaviews and everything I can see from the outside and stopped water I CAN SEE on the inside. Haven't done roof yet.][*]ultimately you'll probably want to replace the skylight with a decent one. (damn, can't find the link... someone post it please. The OEM skylights are pure zhit!)
[Already purchased skylight kit from outdoors mart. It's in closet where it can't help but stays dry! I need a plan to get on the roof without killing myself.][*]once you've re-sealed everything from the roof to the lower trim band (also a BIG source of leaks!) and the floor, then pressure test for leaks, no other test is definitive.[*]The work is a bit tedious but not beyond the skill of anyone who can use a nail gun without ending up looking like the guest star at a crucifixion.
[Yes, I guess "Rivet Gun" doesn't work in that reference. Hee Hee][*]Making neat seams with Airstream appropriate caulk. BLUE PAINTERS TAPE is the big trick! Put it on either side of the seam. Apply caulk, smooth if needed. Wait 10 minutes, pull tape. Resist all temptation to touch the stuff until it finishes curing.
[Yes Yes Yes. Used the painters tape for Vulkem on bumper, Silkaflex on Banana wrap and Parbond on lower trim (using cosmoline alcohol based cleaner to smooth out lumps and bumps in the Parbond ala- the excellent out of doors mart how to video). I've found 10 minutes is good for the parbond but I waited 30 for the silkaflex and an hour or two for the vulkem.]
The quickest way to spot how bad the damage is - pull the belly pan under the dinette. If wet fiberglass cascades onto you and the bottom of the plywood looks soaked you're going to be doing a partial floor replacement.
[I was afraid of that. Not looking forward to pulling the pan.]

All things considered you might want to treat the new piece with "rot doctor" before installing it. (make it virtually impervious to water). A lot of the leaks tend to hide between the inner and outer seams so you can live in ignorant bliss for quite a while. Drilling "weep holes" through the C Channel near the ribs and again sealing with Rot Doctor or a similar product, then allowing for the water to escape without entering the belly pan seems to be a logical choice too.
[Sounds good! will search forums for pictures and instructions.]

Ever seen an old "pie safe"? They have tin doors, with outward facing punched holes. The idea was that the ragged edge prevented flies and other small irritating critters from entering, but let air circulate. Before you put the belly pan back up, you might want to get a VERY small punch and whack a few SMALL holes through low spots in the belly pan so any new water can drain.
[Makes sense. Has anyone purposefully pulled a little "outtie dent" in the center of the pan away from the wheel rain wash and put a drain hole there?]

Note to self: buying another new Airstream - will happen when the company offers a 5 year warranty on the floor (and starts pressure testing the units at the end of the line!). Note to anyone else buying a new or used Airstream - LEARN how to do a pressure test with a heavy duty fan - buy only after you've done one. How many months do some units sit on the dealer's lots in the weather?
[ I have access to a 800CFM enclosed duct exhaust fan which should work. I'll need to make a 8" round to ???? adapter. What's the easiest port to use? Seeing many of the manufacturing defects in the forums has me thinking though, what if I power up and find out one of the vista views isn't secure? "PehhhTUeee! <CRASH> Guess I'll need to devise a WASPRV. (Whole Airstream Pressure Relief Valve)

Thanks again Paula.

Brad
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:14 PM   #215
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Sigh...
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:46 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bycrom
Sigh...
Don't Sigh for me Argentina....

Thanks for your communications with "The Company" in other threads. They need to be held to higher quality.
That being said, we got the trailer we wanted and we love it. Now we need to fix the problem right, hopefully with their assistance.

When I tried to seal my Harley tail light lens years ago, I was perplexed that no matter what I did, there would be water or condensation in the bottom of it. I spoke to one of the shop techs about it while having routine maintenance done. He reminded me (looks wise) of a ZZ top band member. I explained the issue and he said simply, "drill a small hole in the bottom of the lens". The deal is as has been mentioned in other posts, water is gonna get in, be it by leak or human emissions (condensation). AS should really be working on a design that lets the water OUT as most vehicles do.

In the mean time, I gotta fix my floor.

Brad
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTrouper

Don't Sigh for me Argentina....

Thanks for your communications with "The Company" in other threads. They need to be held to higher quality.
That being said, we got the trailer we wanted and we love it. Now we need to fix the problem right, hopefully with their assistance.

When I tried to seal my Harley tail light lens years ago, I was perplexed that no matter what I did, there would be water or condensation in the bottom of it. I spoke to one of the shop techs about it while having routine maintenance done. He reminded me (looks wise) of a ZZ top band member. I explained the issue and he said simply, "drill a small hole in the bottom of the lens". The deal is as has been mentioned in other posts, water is gonna get in, be it by leak or human emissions (condensation). AS should really be working on a design that lets the water OUT as most vehicles do.

In the mean time, I gotta fix my floor.

Brad
Thanks Brad, you are an example of a Zen warrior.

Petaluma is sure close to El Cerrito, I was just down at Los Banos, RV dealer there seems great, shop looks solid, everyone was friendly. No real experience (yet) to report, but so far only good things have been said about them.

Good luck and post pictures.

Dennis
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:07 AM   #218
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Super Trooper,

I had my trailer repaired in Oct 2011 at JC. See my earlier post.
About 4 weeks a go I noticed my vinyl turning black by the door. I peeled the vinyl back and the there is another leak and my floor has rotted again.
The only way to fix this is to remove your furniture and peel the vinyl back to inspect. This will help you determine the source of the leak and determine if your floor needs replacing. Once you determine the source of the leak and fix it, then replace any bad flooring. You may have to replace the vinyl if it is damaged. It must be completely dry before you put the vinyl back down. Moisture trapped between the vinyl and the new plastic insulation causes the wood to rot very fast.

I used used Acryl -R on some cracks and am also trying Capt. Tolly's Creeping Crack Cure for rivets

This time I am doing the work myself. Too expensive to travel to JC and pay for JC or dealer to repair.

The material cost is not much, labor is the big cost. If you are have the skills and the time you can do the work yourself. If you contact me I will be glad to explain in detail what I did to fix my trailer.

I have water tested and at this time no leaks! I am putting wood filler on the floor joints today and should finish the repair this week. I plan to leave my vinyl edges unfinished so I can inspect in the coming weeks to make sure I have solved the leak problem.

Good Luck and let me know if I can help.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #219
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I replaced my rear 18" of floor last weekend (nasty Job). I ran a putty knife along the entire bumper and found "0 CAULK". I leak tested the rear bumper with the floor section removed and water flowed through like a waterfall. I replaced the floor section, insulation and was able to raise the body approx. 1/8" to force Sika 221 between the molding and bumper. This A/S standard is a shock to me!
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:32 PM   #220
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Someone from California would have to vouch for the Airstream dealers in your area. You might also talk to Uwe at Area 63 Productions: 714-538-0485 salwender@sbcglobal.net He and his firm are located in Southern California and do restoration work. He has a very good reputation.
I concur with this statement 100%. We just met Uwe in New Mexico over the weekend where he delivered us our trailer. Uwe is a Mecca of knowledge on these trailers.

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