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Old 10-29-2009, 07:04 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Jaxon View Post
...ain't sayin' where neither...
where?

lets just say somewhere west (or south) of the peeecos...

by an alien name roy...

or was it sam ?

cheers
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:10 PM   #122
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where?

lets just say somewhere west (or south) of the peeecos...

cheers
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Lookin' for them Marfa lights to shine on through... Sam... I mean, Roy...
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:27 PM   #123
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Well, well, well....page, after page, after page and not one response from me to date...... kind of an inside joke. Thenewkid64 read me the riot act about a year ago saying basically love it or leave it, but it would now seem to me that many folks are growing sick and tired of the romper room type stuff. If you haven't read the QC threads, read 'em. Haven't read the separation thread, corrosion thread, frame issue thread? Read 'em, then go plunk down a minimum of $30k for even an entry level new unit, and tell me how great you feel about that decision...fact is few of us would accept this from an auto manufacturer or to use Airstream's own suggestion comparing a house to their RV building...you wouldn't accept this kind of construction from a home builder either....difference being a house more often than not appreciates in value (current economy as the exception). Bottom line the company has clearly missed the mark.....matter of fact, I'm not even sure they know where the mark really is at this point.... what does that tell you when a company has to have you sign a non-disclosure or offer you money in lieu of a repair? I was not part of any of that, however, if true, it speaks volumes to me....

Well, love the product, like many of the folks at the factory. Dislike many of the polices, much of the build quality and most importantly a level of arrogance and history that the folks in mgmt are riding on. Folks at Harley made that same mistake....nearly cost them the company.
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:02 PM   #124
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flyfisher wrote:
"Since I could not spare the time (much less wanting to incur the expense) of taking my trailer to the factory at that time, they made me a modest cash offer in lieu of doing the repair -- much less money than it would cost for the actual work --and required me to sign a non disclosure in order to receive their token payment."

This thread has been a real education today. Looks like '2air' called it again regarding his reference to the "private deals made with owners regularly". I was in a similar situation... just plowed 36 large into a new 2005 silver bullet, and after 5 months into the warranty, was told I would have to get it to Jackson Center on my dime to have it repaired back to the point it was when I bought it. Only I wasn't even offered the courtesy of signing a non-disclosure, or the offer of some chump change to go away. I was too busy with my job and coordinating the transition for my impending retirement to deliver, and retrieve, my AS (two 1,200+ mile round trips) to JC.

I guess I should grateful that my dealership took care of many of the warranty repair issues such as the major fresh water plumbing leak (which required the removal of the entire shower unit), the filiform corrosion on the door grab handle and tail light bezels (on their dime because, according to the dealer, AS would not authorize replacement parts), miscellaneous caulking, peeling laminate, and other minor cosmetic defects. I took care of many of the minor issues myself with my Airstream recommended tool box.

Issues the dealership deemed beyond their expertise were the leaching of the dark gray aluminum dust through the cream colored interior lining (no doubt caused by improper WD hitch bars and stiff truck suspension - 1997 Chevy K1500), the unbelievably botched up audio/video system, and of course, the corrosion on the edges of the exterior panels, which AS won't cover anyway. In retrospect, I wish I had the time and resources to make those trips. I may have gotten an offer I could have refused.


End of hijack, and rant.

For now.
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:19 PM   #125
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Wow... today has been an amazing day in negativity only posible because of the INTERNET!!!

How did we deal with bad stuff before we could tell everybody about it?

I'm not dismissing all the legitimate claims and issues (or malevolent corporate behavior...), just sayin'... here's a string on Austin Texas' 3-day ACL music festival issues... My comment is that folks, chill. There's 362 days left...

statesman.com

I'm not saying that legitimate issues don't deserve an audience but damn! Who's supposed to take care of inconveniences? Can't we handle those? We're NOT victims, folks!
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:30 PM   #126
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon View Post

Wow... today has been an amazing day in negativity only posible because of the INTERNET!!!

How did we deal with bad stuff before we could tell everybody about it?

I'm not dismissing all the legitimate claims and issues (or malevolent corporate behavior...), just sayin'...

I'm not saying that legitimate issues don't deserve an audience but damn! Who's supposed to take care of inconveniences? Can't we handle those? We're NOT victims, folks!
Hi Jaxon!
Have you heard of this nifty new feature on the forum? I personally don't use it but concede it could be very useful for those who may not like to be inconvenienced by specific topics.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f318...tem-57677.html
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:35 PM   #127
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Woop's, there is a small flaw in the paint...

This happens from time to time. We will receive a brand new Mercedes Benz from the factory and it makes its way through our QC process, PDI and into detail. The car is placed on the showroom floor under the special lighting and then we see it.. a small squiggly something under the clear coat of a black car worth around 100K. Its the worst feeling ever for us. What to do? Act like you didnt see it? Deliver the car outside? Take it back to detail so those guys can buff the hell out of it and make it worse?

To repaint the hood you would have to blend the fenders, and the "A" pillars and who knows depending on the location of the flaw. Body shops are very good these days with very special spray booths and new techniques however sometimes they have a difficult time reproducing that original factory appearance. Thats the big worry...

Here's what we do and what every dealer does. The appearance allowance.

Yes, its a negotiation with the customer. They may wish to just get a different car.. thats always an option but will it have the exact same equipment and price point as the one with the flaw.. lots of problems with that option.. especially with our product.

The appearance allowance might be a lease payment that in some cases might be as high as $1600.00 per month. It could be cash for an accessory or whatever. The customer would accept or not. If they accept then they typically feel better about the flaw and know that the overall paint quality and durability has not been compromised.

In the case of a structural problem or crack in a panel I dont think something like this could qualify for this hand shake deal nor would I accept it. Just wanted to share that these negotiations go on in dealerships all across the country.

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Old 10-29-2009, 09:38 PM   #128
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...Just wanted to share that these negotiations go on in dealerships all across the country.

Vin
that's GREAT INFO 'slide and i am glad u can give us a dealer perspective it's incredibly useful...

and agree with the dilemma you nicely describe, and have been involved in these negotiations on expensive cars.

but how about IF you told the customer they'd need to DRIVE the car to germany (or south carolina) and discuss a solution ???

just sayin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon View Post
...I'm not saying...
and u r also NOT saying u sold the stream for an SOB moho either...

not that there is anything WRONG with that either...

correctamundo ?
_______________

it can be a challenge to JUGGLE the many notions such as ...

we LIKE 'streams

we WANT the company to prosper

we EXPECT them to honor warranties

we HOPE they'll go beyond a basic written warranty WHENEVER it's the right thing too do...

we WILL help each other sort out solutions WITHOUT blindly drinking old booze no more...

we CAN expose here (keep ur clothes on folks) and try 2 pressure them to...

design BETTER, build BETTER, service BETTER.

and we ain't whiners OR victums or weiners !

we are prisoners of the 'twink links...

until we SWITCH to one of those things...

what'cha call it, jax' baby neway ???

cheers
2air'
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:43 PM   #129
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Wow, lots of issues with both 'Streams and the Mothership. I kinda feel bad, 'cause my '08 hasn't had the first problem. Well, that's a lie, i do have a tiny bit of filiform in two spots and a little bit of corrosion on a tail light, but I sprayed em all with corrosion-x and nipped it in the bud. Of course I only have about 1500mi on mine so far, but come december, I am going on the MOARTs (Mother-Of-All-RoadTrips)--Virginia Beach to Mothership to Jax, FL to Memphis to St Louis to the new Silver Joe's brick and mortar store in Arkansas to Denver, CO to Picacho Peak, AZ to Hemet, CA and finally Monterey, CA. Reading this thread and similar, I'm expecting my Goodyears to spontaneously explode, exterior panels to crack and then corrode away to nothing and then separate from the rusted frame, all while fighting off little people and aliens who are trying to jump on my bent tongue. Sounds like fun!
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:50 AM   #130
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Just remember to carry your alien repellant, some extra rivets, duct tape, and your corrosion spray. You might just make it through alive.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:13 AM   #131
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Speaking of aliens, congratulations and thank you to Inland Andy for his recognition in the October 09 Airstream Newsletter. He has been a long-time servant to his city and community of Airstreamers. He has certainly learned something repairing Airstreams for all those years and we would do well to listen to his advice.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:06 PM   #132
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My wife and I looked at new Airstreams. Since we're going to full-time for around a year, we thought 25' to 27' was the right size. Buying something new looked like it would be around $50k. It's been awhile, so please forgive me if the number is off.

The new Airstreams just didn't have the "mystique" of the vintage models. And, I thought, for "50 large" I could do something pretty nice on the custom side. I was also concerned about the reports I had read on modern Airstream QC... fit and finish issues, filiform corrosion, frame issues, substandard materials, etc. Honestly, walking through the $50k+ modern Airstreams didn't feel that different than walking through SOBs at half the price.

Now... is a '67 Overlander anything close to perfect. No. But it has been "road tested" for over 40 years. The renovated frame will be stronger than original. It will have two coats of POR-15 rather than one of black paint. The problems with floor rot in the rear bath will be eliminated. In fact, I expect that when the dust settles, our Overlander will be measurably better than it was the day it rolled out of the factory... and it will have cost less than a new Airstream. The interior will be customized to our specific needs. Honestly, I can't think of any reason I would want to buy a new Airstream... at least until they start building something better than they built in 1967.

As for springs, I would be hard pressed to find a stiffer rear suspension than on our 1966 Dodge D200 (3/4 ton) truck. In the words of Will Smith... Damn! I think it's going to take around 1200 pounds over the rear axles just to get a little movement and for the truck to ride like something other than a buckboard wagon.

When it comes to "hitching," we may be looking for some softer bars (on the Reese dual cam). I agree with Andy and others that if the setup is too rigid... and it's tied to a very stiff suspension... it's going to shake the coach and stress the frame.

And returning to the mothership, take a look at Toyota's towing guide. They do a nice job, better than any domestic truck company, of walking a new truck owner through towing information. If Airstream was on the ball, they'd have a great, comprehensive, useful, informative, entertaining manual explaining everything there is about towing. Hey, it's what you do with the travel trailer. Better yet, they could tie the manual to forums (like here) where users could help one another. Instead, I think the folks at the mothership are still reading Japanese TQM/MBO books from the 80s.

Sigh.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:41 PM   #133
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obviously, the majority of the really valuable information on this site covers antique/vintage Airstreams.... but maybe 'airforums' should rename it "a-real-airstream-is-only-up-to-when-they-stopped-using-aircraft-aluminum-any-arsehole-can-piss-away-a-boat-load-of-money-on-a-new-trailer DOT COM"
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:06 PM   #134
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Man…all the downers in this thread are bummin’ me out. With our 89 it’s ride hard and put it away wet. PO towed exclusively with ¾ ton Suburbans and we have towed ~30k miles with a ¾ ton pick me up. I have yet to find one loose/missing rivet, torn panel, frame damage, or floor rot.

We have repaired some “consumables’; new fridge, water heater components, rewired the monitor panel, new tires, I even try to wash/wax once in a while. Some may not consider ours very pretty; it’s bald up top, and really could use to be clear coated (or painted). But for now, we just use the heck out of it. We pretty much dry camp/boondock so I tend to keep all the systems functioning top notch as my priority. Cosmetics? Well…

I expect to maintain any property we own, and to be honest, the AS has been a lot less work than say, a few of the boats we have owned. We really enjoy the AS, consider it a very cool piece of American that just so happens to contribute to lots of quality Family time for us. We intend to keep it for a long time, hopefully to pass on to our Son.

I would also be upset if I dropped many large $ on a new AS and had some of the issues mentioned here…but this has really turned into an AS slug fest.

I thought this forum was for Folks who LIKED AirStreams?

Now where is that “ignore thread” button?

Think I’ll go check out the "Official AirStream Cocktail” thread instead…

Bill
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:26 PM   #135
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Good new site for those who hate their Airstreams. Please start a forum there.

Doug and Cheryl
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:38 PM   #136
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There is really no reason for any thread to become negative. Instead of adding to the negative trend start a new direction and add something positive to help the original poster and the community.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:57 PM   #137
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For years, my daily driver was a '52 Chevy 1/2 ton truck, 5-window cab, 216 straight six engine. My nephew is driving the truck now. How I feel about that pickup--one that has been in the family since 1953--is not how I feel about General Motors circa 2009. What Chevy was in the heyday of the American auto industry is not what Chevy is today.

I feel the same way about Airstream. What our '67 Overlander is--and represents--is different than the wholly-owned subsidiary of Thor Industries, Inc., aka "mothership." Ask a Harley Davidson fan how he (or she) feels about the AMF years.

Often, the toughest critics of a brand are also the biggest fans. Airstream owners have high expectations... so do Mercedes Benz owners or Lexus owners. You pay more for a high-end product... you expect better quality, better customer service, better overall ownership experience. I think it's fantastic that Airstream fans remains so passionate, dedicated and involved. The Airstream community wants a great modern travel trailer... not an SOB in a tin wrapper.

My advice to the OP... we can't wait around for Jackson to get the memo. Making Airstream great is up to us. Start with a vintage unit; start with a modern unit. Use these forums to make the changes Airstream should have designed and built in the first place. Frames can be improved. Tow hitches setups can be refined. Stuff that doesn't work can be replaced with stuff that does. We're making Airstream into Ourstream.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:01 PM   #138
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It is a sad state of affairs when a man does not feel he has gotten what he's paid for.My rationale has -for the most part- been,buy quality at a comfortable price.If things go amiss the heartache is tolerable.I don't like to brag,but I will.The two old cans I bought have brought me nothing but joy.The trade off was time and labor,a trade I can live with. Check my page. There should be some pics there.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:09 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex View Post
Man…all the downers in this thread are bummin’ me out. ....

SNIP

I thought this forum was for Folks who LIKED AirStreams?

Now where is that “ignore thread” button?

Bill
I LOVE my Airstreams, Bill, and have always viewed the forum as a place where we can all exchange information about them. Unfortunately, like many things, Airstream ownership isn't always nirvana. Some may even view this informational exchange as complaining. I suppose that's one perspective. Then, there's those who venture in to actually complain about those whom they perceive to be complaining. Go figure. For those, the title of this thread should have been a major clue.

Since you asked:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f318...tem-57677.html

Enjoy!
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:32 PM   #140
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All,

I did not mean for this to be a complaint forum about the trailer until I was told by the manufacturer and a dealer here that it was my fault their product has a design flaw and has had it for some time and they have not corrected it. They are still building this trailer floorplan and others with the same cargo hatch design. That is really too bad.

I have said this before and will say it again we love our trailer because it was exactly what we wanted. It is too bad when you buy something that is supposed to be a cut above in every aspect and it turns out to be no better than the rest in some respects. That is all I am saying. If you take it as complaining then that is fine you have your opinions and that is OK too.

I do not put my stamp of exceptional on something that is not truly exceptional and feel that discretion has been watered down over the years due to political correctness. I am overweight because I like to eat too much not because McDonalds uses fry oil with trans fats. Airstream has a design flaw because they did not do a complete design analysis of a skinned structure.

If my talking this up here for all of you to see has upset "The Mothership" then they can pick up the phone and talk to me about it instead of bothering my repair center. Especially, if they are not going to back their product any better than what I have experienced. It is me they need to keep happy because the repair center is busy fixing the problems Airstream created and will not change. If I would have known that a new Airstream is not as good a quality as an older one I would have searched for an older one. I like old well maintained stuff that is why I drive a almost 10 yr old truck, or even a near 30 year old Jeep CJ.
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