RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-27-2009, 08:48 PM   #61
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
There are fresh ideas, learned information, and new products every day. There is also the wisdom of experience. The archives are valuable, but the discussion must continue to be relevant.

Airstream is faced with consumers who want stronger structures but demand larger windows and access doors, and an extensive list of heavy factory-installed equipment. That is a conflict that may not be resolved at a price point that can sell trailers.

We have our Airstreams, love the heck out of them, and are not about to park them. So why not explore any and all possibilities top keep these jewels on the road with a minimum amount of damage. Less rigid hitching, balanced suspension assemblies, lightening the load. These initiatives, and others, have merit and should be discussed frequently.
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 09:13 PM   #62
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
There are fresh ideas, learned information, and new products every day. There is also the wisdom of experience. The archives are valuable, but the discussion must continue to be relevant.

Airstream is faced with consumers who want stronger structures but demand larger windows and access doors, and an extensive list of heavy factory-installed equipment. That is a conflict that may not be resolved at a price point that can sell trailers.

We have our Airstreams, love the heck out of them, and are not about to park them. So why not explore any and all possibilities top keep these jewels on the road with a minimum amount of damage. Less rigid hitching, balanced suspension assemblies, lightening the load. These initiatives, and others, have merit and should be discussed frequently.
That's what this Forums is about.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 09:58 PM   #63
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
...The archives are valuable, but the discussion must continue to be relevant...
a member posting about NEW cracks on a NEW trailer is relevant.

these reports help current owners by making us aware of issues that COULD apply to our trailers.

and help us learn about USEFUL repairs, dealing with the warranty issue (or lack of it) and so on...

this has be demonstrated many times here on many a/s related issues.

in past times, the owner would have NOT had this connected awareness,

and might have relied ENTIRELY on nonsense or double talk from a dealer or service stop.

"it's your fault" carries a lot LESS weight when we can learn about OTHERS with the same issues.
________________

what may not be obvious to you (dk') is that there are dozens of threads on these issues.

and 100s of extremely well written posts with engineering data, hard science as reference and so on, in PAST THREADS.

but the folks who post those intelligent and well supported replies GIVE UP after writing those replies a few times...

so in order to GET the good stuff YOU need to go back and read, that's part of cracker's observation.

because the really useful info doesn't get reposted.
_____________________

it's also apparent to ne1 who reads here or has been on the board awhile that...

every single issue, problem, failure and leak reported or repaired HERE...

has been attributed 2 overhitching, running gear, axles or owner neglect.

and typically WITHOUT any details about the actual setup or history or usage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
...That is a conflict that may not be resolved at a price point that can sell trailers....
the fact is that MANY current and recently built travel trailers from OTHER builders...

are either LIGHTER or STRONGER or LESS EXPENSIVE that streams.

and with more features or more carry capacity.

and NONE Of them carry the risk that a bicycle hanging off the back will break them either.

so it's NOT about price point.

it IS about NOT EVOLVING the product or DE-CONTENTING key structural elements...

while focusing on swiss army knife and quicksilver trim or a few modern trendy cosmetic elements.
______________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
...Airstream is faced with consumers who want....
while i'm sure YOU don't mean to imply it's the owner/consumers FAULT that IS how this phrase reads....

and the simple fact is that a/s is faced with FEWER repeat customers and seasoned RV consumers...

and more who primarily are attracted to shiny yard ornaments.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 10:18 PM   #64
moderator
Commercial Member
 
Airslide's Avatar

 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Wilton , California
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,707
Images: 50
Stress Corrosion Cracking of Aluminum Alloys?

When I see all three of these words together, Aluminum, Corrosion and Cracking it makes me wonder... Does SCC apply to our newer trailers? Maybe this is actually different..




"Aluminum alloys that contain appreciable amounts of soluble alloying elements, primarily copper, magnesium, silicon, and zinc, are susceptible to stress-corrosion cracking (SCC)."


Stress Corrosion Cracking of Aluminum Alloys
__________________
"Old fashioned service on your late model Airstream"

https://www.facebook.com/VinniesNort...ir?ref=tn_tnmn
Airslide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 10:23 PM   #65
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,070
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

Hi, doesn't the size and weight have anything to do with physics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post

Physics are Physics.

Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Any size and weight "adult" can do the job.

Andy
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 10:28 PM   #66
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
that's an interesting reference 'slide...

we'll need to read it in some detail.

i'm not a metal expert but i have had 3 a/s rebuilders report that the CURRENT skin is BRITTLE in a way that alcad or 70s skin was not.

the ENDCAPS are somewhat unique and fragile imo compared to older/narrower/less windowed/more riveted designs.

the earlier poster who mentioned the LACK of R&D and reliance on the historical reputation hit the mark too.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 10:33 PM   #67
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstream01's Avatar

 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Land of fruits and nuts , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 305
Rob, unless you are a midget, I think all Andy is trying to say is that if you jump up and down on your hitch, it should move a little bit. If it is rock hard, it probably is too harsh for the airstream.
Airstream01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 10:42 PM   #68
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstream01's Avatar

 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Land of fruits and nuts , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 305
One other thing to consider. Aluminum, unlike steel, will crack, no matter what, after xx number of deflections, even if it is not stressed past the yield point. Given enough time, any aluminum part will fail.

How much R & D Airstream does I don't know. Have they strengthened the frames and shell to account for the increase in trailer weight? Don't know, but given what I know about engineering and manufacturing, I'd bet they know what they are doing and probably use the latest computer modeling in their designs.

So, where are those photos??
Airstream01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:05 PM   #69
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstream01 View Post
One other thing to consider. Aluminum, unlike steel, will crack, no matter what, after xx number of deflections...

So, where are those photos??
while the term used HERE is cracks or cracking...

the skin/shell issues are more like TEARING from torsional stress.

so these aren't examples of repeated folding that leads to cracks.

at least round the FRONT BOX opening.

my understanding from the o.p is that the tears on his unit...

are very much LIKE the images linked in post #7 above.

again this isn't a NEW or unique happening so much as it is a NEW trailer experiencing this issue.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:16 PM   #70
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Physics is physics, it never ages.

Cause if it did, as some suggest, then we need to kick to the curb, everything Newton and Einstein, came up with because it's way to old.
...
You are correct up to a point. The fundamental laws of physics haven't changed since right after the big bang. However, there have been advances in our understanding of the application of those laws of physics and in some cases there have been new knowledge that has contradicted both Newton's and Einstein's.

There have been tremendous advances in engineering since the days of Wally, but it appears that Airstream hasn't kept up with them.

I use an F-250 crew cab to tow my Airstream with an Equal-i-zer brand hitch with 1,000 Lbs. bars and haven't experienced the cracks at the corners of my front hatch door (happens to be square) on my 30' Bunkhouse. Many of the posts that 2Air has linked are from 30' Bunkhouse owners and it seems to be a design issue know by those of us that own 30' Bunkhouses.

I regularly check the temp of my Marathon trailer tires with an infrared thermometer and have never had them as warm as the tow vehicle's tires so I guess I'm doing something right.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:36 PM   #71
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate View Post
You are correct up to a point. The fundamental laws of physics haven't changed since right after the big bang. However, there have been advances in our understanding of the application of those laws of physics and in some cases there have been new knowledge that has contradicted both Newton's and Einstein's.

There have been tremendous advances in engineering since the days of Wally, but it appears that Airstream hasn't kept up with them.

I regularly check the temp of my Marathon trailer tires with an infrared thermometer and have never had them as warm as the tow vehicle's tires so I guess I'm doing something right.

Most owners don't get involved with PM's or checking things as they go.

Those that do, such as you, can observe problems when they are minor, instead of major.

Once minor issues are observed, it's much easier to correct them as well as possibly determine the cause.

Hat's off to those that "watch it".

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 12:37 AM   #72
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
San Diego , California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 331
Images: 6
I'm not getting it.

After reading this original post, then the threads (direct or hijacked), I still don't know where these cracks are. I would love a photo or two. As far as I can tell, you get cracks from either bad design, bad aluminum, improper hitches, bad adjustment of the improper hitches or spots on the moon.

Randy
OB Bambi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 01:19 AM   #73
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,070
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by OB Bambi View Post
After reading this original post, then the threads (direct or hijacked), I still don't know where these cracks are. I would love a photo or two. As far as I can tell, you get cracks from either bad design, bad aluminum, improper hitches, bad adjustment of the improper hitches or spots on the moon.

Randy
Hi, I haven't seen any pictures from the original poster, but 2air has links of similar cracks in post #7 on page #1.
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 06:51 AM   #74
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstream01's Avatar

 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Land of fruits and nuts , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
while the term used HERE is cracks or cracking...

the skin/shell issues are more like TEARING from torsional stress.

so these aren't examples of repeated folding that leads to cracks.

at least round the FRONT BOX opening.

my understanding from the o.p is that the tears on his unit...

are very much LIKE the images linked in post #7 above.

again this isn't a NEW or unique happening so much as it is a NEW trailer experiencing this issue.

cheers
2air'
Couple things. The crack photos you posted are very indicative of some some sort of repeated stress causing the fractures. It could be the result of a design flaw, but it could just be a result of excessive stress applied to the unit. Just like an airplane, our 'streams can only handle a given amount of stress before fatigue fractures begin to form. That is why airframes are checked regularly and flight hours meticulously logged

I have noticed when I cranked a little too much on my stabilizers, that the entry door would stick--I induced stress. If folks mistakenly are using their stabilizing jacks as leveling jacks, they are likely over-stressing the shell and frame and accelerating crack propogation.

I'm going to have to agree with Andy as well. While excess firmness in the hitching setup may lead to fatigue fractures due to excess vibration, I believe the biggest issue with using wd bars that are too heavy for the application are the extreme torsional stress they induce when the tow vehicle/trailer combo encounter uneven terrain.
Airstream01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 07:03 AM   #75
Rivet Master
 
Tin Hut's Avatar
 
2005 28' International CCD
Pagosa Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 806
Images: 1
what if

"it's possible ALIENS brokked his trailer too...
but not likely." 2Airishuman


"Rob, unless you are a midget, I think all Andy is trying to say is that if you jump up and down on your hitch, it should move a little bit" Airstream01


What if both an Alien and a midget jumped up and down on your hitch?
__________________
"would you rather have a mansion full of money or a trailer full of love?"

Tin Hut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 07:27 AM   #76
Rivet Master
 
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,943
People use their trailers differently. Some are open road, high speed people traveling on lots of freeways (which have not been kept in the best shape lately) and get a lot of fatigue type loads and failures. Stress concentrations (like inside sharp corner cutouts) can easily multiply stresses by a factor of 3. Large high tech. companies (like the auto or aerospace companies) use sophisticated optical and strain gage reading equipment to understand what is going on and make design corrections. (I am a retired Mechanical engineer and participated in a lot of that kind of testing and development.) Airstream (being a small company) neither possesses that kind of equipment or personnel. Wally said we only make improvements. The current marketing department says we need new bells all the time to sell more units. It is obvious, the marketing department has won the internal political battle.

Some of the heavy users of their Airstreams look for function and durability. Other people are looking for a unit that has "style". There are always compromises occurring in any product design. I think Wally had it right in his development of a legendary product. Beatrice and Thor seem to have been more style and marketing people than Wally. I also think Wally was also a great marketer and used his skills to also develop a loyal customer following. Beatrice, and now Thor, have been living off Wally's legend and customer following for years. I think blaming the customer for failure of the product all the time will eventually kill the legend and they will have to just become another SOB with a unique look.
dwightdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 07:30 AM   #77
Paul
 
2009 30' FB Classic
New Boston , New Hampshire
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
Blog Entries: 3
Oh my God

We just purchased a new 30FB from an AS dealer, and they included an Equalizer hitch, they only had the 14,000# unit in stock and stated that a more heavy duty hitch assembly would be more stable, at the time it seemed to make sense, the higher rating the better...wrong.

Well thank all of you for this forum, we tow our AS with an F250 and the trailer and truck are rock solid on the road but it is obvious that it is way over hitched by the way the interior items like cushons, frig items , closet items, are shaken violently, I cant imagine the stress that is created in the shell from the lack of suspension. Kinda like riding on a hard tail chopper.

We 'Downsized" from a 40 ft diesel pusher to our AS and knew nothing about hitch requirements and relied on the dealer to match the AS to our truck.

I will post again when we have a solution.
Beauchesne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 07:57 AM   #78
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauchesne View Post
We just purchased a new 30FB from an AS dealer, and they included an Equalizer hitch, they only had the 14,000# unit in stock and stated that a more heavy duty hitch assembly would be more stable, at the time it seemed to make sense, the higher rating the better...wrong.

Well thank all of you for this forum, we tow our AS with an F250 and the trailer and truck are rock solid on the road but it is obvious that it is way over hitched by the way the interior items like cushons, frig items , closet items, are shaken violently, I cant imagine the stress that is created in the shell from the lack of suspension. Kinda like riding on a hard tail chopper.

We 'Downsized" from a 40 ft diesel pusher to our AS and knew nothing about hitch requirements and relied on the dealer to match the AS to our truck.

I will post again when we have a solution.
The 14,000 # pulling weight is ok.

Since you have a heavy duty truck, should have lighter weight "torsion bars", probably in the area of 750 pounds, and possibly less.

What rating bars do you have?

What all does your trauck have? 4 x 4? Extra overload springs?

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 08:07 AM   #79
Rivet Master
 
mandolindave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,189
Images: 4
I needed this thread....thanks.....ALL of you

#1 I don't feel that a solution, constitutes a high jacking.

#2 I am just a mandolin player, not an engineer. These
hitch equations have multiple variables, and I for one
appreciate simple tests to guide me.

#3 I welcome back the voice of experience ( Andy )

I tow a dry 3000 lbs Argosy,
with an older 1/2 ton van ( 5000 lbs tow capacity ),
using a Draw Tite hitch with 1000 lbs torsion bars.
Do I need lighter torsion bars and can I switch to
different bars for my Draw Tite hitch ?
mandolindave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 08:10 AM   #80
Rivet Master
 
SilverRanger's Avatar
 
2005 19' Safari
1968 24' Tradewind
Rural , Delaware
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Hut View Post
What if both an Alien and a midget jumped up and down on your hitch?

Forget the stress cracks. Those are the pictures I want posted.

__________________
2005 Bambi
1968 Trade Wind
2007 Ford F250 4x4 Crew
WDCU
SilverRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.