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Old 02-03-2010, 08:40 PM   #201
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and SLIDE models have had the FRAMES beefed up to support the extra weight.


Hooray... slides have beefy frames...

Even when towed by a dumptruck..

(sorry.. I will go back to behaving..)

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Old 02-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #202
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Andy recommended 800 lb. bars for our '94 30' Excella, and that's been fine. So sorry to hear about your trouble, and Airstream needs to make sure they are equipping new owners with the right information. Lots of good counsel above.

Anytime you get counsel from anyone, ask this question: "What is their motive in giving me this counsel?"

In some cases, it's simply to help a fellow traveler on life's road. In other cases, it may be to sell you something or self-serving.

Most of the counsel I've found here is in the former category, some has been in the latter. You decide.

Best to you, and above all, I hope you enjoy the good things your Airstream can bring you and yours!
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:40 PM   #203
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Great tow vehicle, amazing power, no equalizer hitch need and no cracks in the trailer…. A little slow going down the highway.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #204
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Attachment 95472


Great tow vehicle, amazing power, no equalizer hitch need and no cracks in the trailer…. A little slow going down the highway.
Ok.. now we're having fun!

I might have to save this picture for future reference....

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Old 02-03-2010, 11:12 PM   #205
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That’s why we own Airstreams! Life’s to short, have some FUN!
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:26 PM   #206
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I had the repairs honored under warranty the first time. I was told that they added plates and they added a new skin. So what materials were used were choosen by Airstream in JC. This debate is very frustrating to me as to what is the cause and who is to blame. I bought my trailer before I purchased my tow vehicle (2006 Dodge Ram 2500 desiel 4x4 )after doing research and getting recommendations from people "in the know" including the Airstream dealership that I purchased it from. I was told this was what I needed in order to safely tow my Airstream. I have done everything that I have been told to do. I don't want to destroy my trailer I want to continue to enjoy using it.
Now I'm told it's to stiff get lighter bars so I do. I was given 800# bars I replaced with Reese 600# bars. I have it adjusted properly. I don't drive in the back roads four wheeling with it. I have only driven it on the highway. I don't drive like a maniac. I'm no expert so I rely on what the professionals have told me to do. Andy was saying it wasn't sealed right and the rivets are wrong. JC did that. Why don't they know that? I just want it fixed right. That's all.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:48 PM   #207
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I had the repairs honored under warranty the first time. I was told that they added plates and they added a new skin. So what materials were used were choosen by Airstream in JC. This debate is very frustrating to me as to what is the cause and who is to blame. I bought my trailer before I purchased my tow vehicle (2006 Dodge Ram 2500 desiel 4x4 )after doing research and getting recommendations from people "in the know" including the Airstream dealership that I purchased it from. I was told this was what I needed in order to safely tow my Airstream. I have done everything that I have been told to do. I don't want to destroy my trailer I want to continue to enjoy using it.
Now I'm told it's to stiff get lighter bars so I do. I was given 800# bars I replaced with Reese 600# bars. I have it adjusted properly. I don't drive in the back roads four wheeling with it. I have only driven it on the highway. I don't drive like a maniac. I'm no expert so I rely on what the professionals have told me to do. Andy was saying it wasn't sealed right and the rivets are wrong. JC did that. Why don't they know that? I just want it fixed right. That's all.

Pop rivets are never used where water can easily hit them, since they leak.

They can be used, in spite of their looks, if they are sealed around the shank, as well as the center hole.

From your photo, it appears that no sealer was used.

If JC installed them, shame shame on them.

Andy
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:42 PM   #208
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JM,

I have seen Airstreams pulled by tow vehicles in photos from back many years ago that were much more harsh riding than my 2000 Ford, F250 2wd crew cab, short bed truck. The old Dodge 4x4 power wagons were very stiff, and cars that you see from back when also had airshocks added to them to support the rear of the car. Anyone that has driven one these vehicles of yesteryear know what I am talking about.

I still want to know why there is no better instruction given in the owners manual on how to set up the trailer to tow vehicle connection, and the running gear balancing (which has nothing to do with anything but the trailer) and many other of the seamingly Airstream "skunkworks" know how items. I did not spend my CASH on theis trailer because I want to tear it up. I bought it as an investment so that in 8 yrs or so we can drop our son off at college and travel in it. Maybe I was mistaken with the Airstream product and it is not really the icon of the American frontier. That would be some misleading advertising wouldn't it. Check out any Aistreamer publication, Airstream add or publication from the caravan club and see what the essence is they are trying to portray.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:01 AM   #209
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JM,

I have seen Airstreams pulled by tow vehicles in photos from back many years ago that were much more harsh riding than my 2000 Ford, F250 2wd crew cab, short bed truck. The old Dodge 4x4 power wagons were very stiff, and cars that you see from back when also had airshocks added to them to support the rear of the car. Anyone that has driven one these vehicles of yesteryear know what I am talking about.

I still want to know why there is no better instruction given in the owners manual on how to set up the trailer to tow vehicle connection, and the running gear balancing (which has nothing to do with anything but the trailer) and many other of the seamingly Airstream "skunkworks" know how items. I did not spend my CASH on theis trailer because I want to tear it up. I bought it as an investment so that in 8 yrs or so we can drop our son off at college and travel in it. Maybe I was mistaken with the Airstream product and it is not really the icon of the American frontier. That would be some misleading advertising wouldn't it. Check out any Aistreamer publication, Airstream add or publication from the caravan club and see what the essence is they are trying to portray.
You can call Airstream at 937-5966111 and ask for the sales department.

Perhaps they can answer your question.

Andy
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:50 AM   #210
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Krazy,

I feel your pain and was in no way trying to minimize the situation. However, having put over 300,000 miles on three quarter ton pickups and now over 65,000 miles on a one ton dually, there is no comparison in ride harshness. Absolutely none. Your Ford 250 does not ride that harsh and I suspect is not part of the real issue. My comment was that for most of the first years AS built trailers they were pulled with passenger cars, none with suspension as stout as even your 250.

I spent some time this winter reading accounts of some of the caravans, especially the African caravan, and to think that the trailers did not have issues would be a huge underestimation. Axles broke, tire issues, and many other things. Most trailers in that era were not long, and to that end I think some of the flex issue is greatly mitigated. But, they broke, they were fixed, and the folks on the trip had a great time. Maybe some thought they should never break, maybe for the price that a Ferrari costs consumers think they should never break. Look into the data, Ferrari is one of the worst reliability cars on the market. Imagine telling a Ferrari customer who just dropped tons of coin that if he/she wanted something almost bullet proof reliable get a Jetta. And then here comes the discussion about how much more was spent and it should be that much better.

I feel your pain and would not be happy, either. But, I would be using it, not storing it, and getting enjoyment out of it like those did on the caravans. They fixed them, moved on and had a life time of memories.

If it is true (as mentioned above) that the tongue flexes so much just on the jack stand as to cause problems, then the issue most likely is not with your truck. At the end of the day, your trailer will likely outlive you, is still the best TT on the market, and should you care to look at other brands, you will likely realize why you purchased it in the first place.
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:21 AM   #211
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Krazy,.... is still the best TT on the market, and should you care to look at other brands, you will likely realize why you purchased it in the first place.
Airstream is the best of a very mediocre group...very comforting.

.... it's obvious we are not being responded too, some competition might help or a modicum of pride of purpose...

Check this thread for the LAST Airstream response...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f318...eam-53083.html
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:38 AM   #212
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Airstream is the best of a very mediocre group...very comforting.

.... it's obvious we are not being responded too, some competition might help or a modicum of pride of purpose...

Check this thread for the LAST Airstream response...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f318...eam-53083.html

Is it over.. I mean the discussions..
I thought is was so cool that we could interact with the president of the company..

Thats cutting edge and we are major enthusiasts!

Come on Airstream.. Lets build some excitement! We are still here and talking up your product every day!

Dont run away because you got your feelings hurt.. get back in the mix and lets either agree to disagree or work some stuff out..

Its all good. I love my airstream and cant wait till the next rally!

Vin
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:49 PM   #213
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Robert,

Your position is understood. Nobody said that Airstreams were perfect. No trailer is perfect, no nuclear sub is perfect either, etc. But, take a good look around and you will see why most that own that other brand really want an Airstream. There are a few exceptions,to be sure, those that need four slides bunk houses, TT toyhaulers, and maybe some that cannot see or think for the long haul so they count out AS as too expensive. I also feel to some extent that AS should make the tongue and trailer body attachments strong enough so that most vehicles that likely would tow it won't damage it. The need to consider derating a tow vehicle or use substantially less spring bar is a bandaid that may work for a long time but not a true fix. Why can't the body be made to flex a little on the frame without damage. Virtually every pickup truck has the bed of the truck made to flex as the frame flexes without resultant damage. It can be done!
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:48 PM   #214
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Some good points here. The truck flexing thing wasn't always that way. There are old canadian ford pick-ups with a unibody and an I-beam frame. Was it a good idea? there would probably be more of them if it was.
The frame could be made taller and stronger like a motorhome, but only with the resultant increase in weight. I don't think that would solve all of the issues that are coming up either. I wouldn't want a Bambi that could only be pulled with an f-250. There is a mid-ground somewhere here that should be investigated more thoroughly by Airstream. I never heard of the issues that 2air raised about the tongue flexing, with nothing but the trailer weight, to the point where it deforms the shell noticably. Now that just scares me. What does it do in an emergency stop situation?

Rich the Viking

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Robert,

Your position is understood. Nobody said that Airstreams were perfect. No trailer is perfect, no nuclear sub is perfect either, etc. But, take a good look around and you will see why most that own that other brand really want an Airstream. There are a few exceptions,to be sure, those that need four slides bunk houses, TT toyhaulers, and maybe some that cannot see or think for the long haul so they count out AS as too expensive. I also feel to some extent that AS should make the tongue and trailer body attachments strong enough so that most vehicles that likely would tow it won't damage it. The need to consider derating a tow vehicle or use substantially less spring bar is a bandaid that may work for a long time but not a true fix. Why can't the body be made to flex a little on the frame without damage. Virtually every pickup truck has the bed of the truck made to flex as the frame flexes without resultant damage. It can be done!
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:26 PM   #215
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I never heard of the issues that 2air raised about the tongue flexing, with nothing but the trailer weight, to the point where it deforms the shell noticably. Now that just scares me. What does it do in an emergency stop situation?

Rich the Viking
Rich.

Normal flexing of the A-frame hurts nothing, such as stops, even hard stops.

Repeated abusive flexing, from excessive rated torsion bars, and/or excessive rated tow vehicles, lack of proper running gear balance, can, over a period of time, cause damage, moreso to the shell initially and later on to parts of the chassis, furniture etc.

Andy
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:06 PM   #216
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...Normal flexing of the A-frame hurts nothing, such as stops, even hard stops...
and no one can define 'normal'...

i'd suggest normal MIGHT B a sufficiently SMALL amount, such that NOTHING else is affected.

however on my unit this was sufficient to BUCKLE/BULGE the front skin several inches...

even withOUT a hitch/truck or any towing and certainly NO w/d bars tensioned.

in fact when i FINALLY got the head of service/customer relations to WALK OUT to the terra port and LOOK at this...

he immediately offered to have it towed INTO the shop and fixed, no questions asked, that day.

even though there was a 'waiting list' for service at the scheduling desk.

and the "oh sh!t" look on his face suggested he wasn't happy about seeing it either.

this is NOT an isolated case, i am aware of this issue on many units and several have been posted about HERE or in other threads.

and, while it COULD have been just a random coincidence, there were several OTHER TRAILERS in the terra port with the same issue...

UNKNOWN to the owners, until we (another owner and i) pointed it out... to them.

the factory tongues on NEWER bigger streams which are HEAVY relative to the A frame stiffness...

that along with NO hold down plate, fewer rivets, fewer lag bolt into the floor/frame, PANO windows, big storage doors and so on.

the current definitive FIX has been to simply stop PRODUCTION of the largest streams.

i suspect WHEN those models/sizes return they'll be different UNDER/inside...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:57 AM   #217
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Is it over.. I mean the discussions..
I thought is was so cool that we could interact with the president of the company..

Thats cutting edge and we are major enthusiasts!

Come on Airstream.. Lets build some excitement! We are still here and talking up your product every day!

Dont run away because you got your feelings hurt.. get back in the mix and lets either agree to disagree or work some stuff out..

Its all good. I love my airstream and cant wait till the next rally!

Vin



Vin,

It's still an open thread but the Mothership hasn't responded in at least 5 months.
Oh well.... I got my Stream just about the way it should have been from the start and I don't plan on buying another new one, so I guess it may be time to pass the torch.

The new QC plan...wait us out and sell to the "new" generation of Airstream owners, the Wallymart generation, expect crap and we'll give you the best money can buy.
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Old 02-06-2010, 02:06 AM   #218
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How many late model Airstream's on the road, and how many owners posting their dissatisfaction here?
Less than .01%, I would wager.
And how many of those folks fall into the "there's a fingernail of corrosion in my wheel well" category?

Would I like to see A/S implement some 'six sigma' strategies? Sure.
But suggesting Airstream is 'no different than the others' smells of troll bait.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:02 AM   #219
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Joe,

Don't read more into it than whats there, AS is still top of the heap!!

Bob... one of the .01%'ers and proud ovit
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:28 AM   #220
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Bob,
Roger that

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