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Old 08-17-2009, 12:47 PM   #1
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paint went tacky

Guess you could take that a couple ways...

I noticed that the paint on my interior walls has morphed and is now very sticky. I primed it with XIM and painted with S/W Duration in December. Both the primer - and then the laytex - completely dried between coats and appeared to be fine until a couple months ago. I noticed it was becoming kind of sticky. I thought it might be the humidity and tried to ignore it. However, yesterday, after I'd already had a fit over applying Vulkem outside, I just couldn't was dumbfounded by how tacky the interior has become. The ABS bulkheads are fine but everywhere else is super sticky. I called S/W for some help and they said a sales rep would phone me.... sometime... Till then, anyone have some advice or suggestions? I can't imagine what has happened - like some chemical process has taken place. Outgassing of original vinyl wall covering? The XIM primer was suppose to prevent that...

Laura
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:35 PM   #2
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Laura,

Don't know about the problems with your paint, but we've had several older Airstreams we bought used, and every one of them had the same stickyness you discribe on the vinyl type coating on the aluminum walls. Don't know where it comes from, or what causes it, but it's definately there.

A good cleaning with something like 409 takes it off the original vinyl wall coating.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:03 PM   #3
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I can't imagine what has happened - like some chemical process has taken place. Outgassing of original vinyl wall covering? The XIM primer was suppose to prevent that...
Sounds like off-gassing of the vinyl to me. Sorry to say, the XIM may not have done what it was supposed to do.

The only thing I have heard to work on the sticky vinyl is to clean it real good then cover with a coat of Future Floor Wax...I don't know what to do with it coming through the paint. My guess would be to re-prime with a different primer...then paint again. I've seen good results with Zolatone over the vinyl...

Bummer!

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Old 08-17-2009, 02:07 PM   #4
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Boy - you've had a rough week - hang in there. See if this does anything for you or gets you started towards a cure...

Latex paint sometimes does not dry properly and stays tacky... also called blocking... from the Natural Handyman home repair and do it yourself website
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:24 PM   #5
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Laura, I have the exact same problem (same primer, same paint, same Airstream). I guess it's time to call S/W and see what they have to say. I'll start making some phone calls.

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Old 08-17-2009, 03:28 PM   #6
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Well, I have an answer, believe it or not.

Spoke to the answer guy at Sherwin Williams (local rep) and he recommends trying the following.

S/W sells a product made by MinWax called "Polycrylic" (I'm sure that's not spelled right). It is formulated as a top coat for latex paints. He suggested that we scuff up the surface with something like a Scotch-Brite pad and roll on a layer of this stuff. Wait a few weeks and see if the "tackyness" comes back.

I'm going to give this a shot on the walls under the beds (I'm in the process of putting the bedroom back together right now) and see how it goes. I'll post back here the results, if that's OK, Laura.

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Old 08-17-2009, 03:40 PM   #7
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Well, I have an answer, believe it or not.

Spoke to the answer guy at Sherwin Williams (local rep) and he recommends trying the following.

S/W sells a product made by MinWax called "Polycrylic" (I'm sure that's not spelled right). It is formulated as a top coat for latex paints. He suggested that we scuff up the surface with something like a Scotch-Brite pad and roll on a layer of this stuff. Wait a few weeks and see if the "tackyness" comes back.

I'm going to give this a shot on the walls under the beds (I'm in the process of putting the bedroom back together right now) and see how it goes. I'll post back here the results, if that's OK, Laura.

Jim

Great to hear you got a quick response. I'm still waiting. The S/W guy was going to phone the sales rep immediately. I'll give him till tomorrow noon - then I'll call back. Though I'm sorry to hear you're having the same problem - but it's reassuring that it's not *just me*.

Boy - hope the top-coat product works for you! I can't imagine scuffing the surface without it getting all gummy and unlevel. But the thought of stripping it down to the vinyl is too overwhelming. Please - post your results!!! And if I get a return call that gives some alternate advice, I'll pass it on as well.

Laura

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Old 08-17-2009, 03:51 PM   #8
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Will Do. I'm going to try and get it done this week. Anything is better than that "Future floor wax" solution. I just can't help thinking that floor wax will fail over time.

BTW, I used Sikaflex on the outside of the camper, Vulkem on the inside. Seems to work better that way (yes, I saw your other thread).

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Old 08-19-2009, 09:20 PM   #9
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Well, this stuff looks promising. I scuffed the paint with Scotch-Brite a bit, then brushed on a coat of the polycrylic. The tacky/sticky is pretty much gone. HOWEVER, I did all of this tonight after the sun went down. Let's give it a few days in the summer heat and humidity, try a couple of different areas before we call it good.

Major concerns include:

1) It takes as many as 3 coats according to the label on the can.
2) How does heat (and cold) effect the coating?
3) Will it peal and check over time?
4) It's kind of a pain to work with (Not a bad thing if it actually works)
5) Expensive, about $17/quart, $45/gallon

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Old 08-20-2009, 08:32 AM   #10
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Well, this stuff looks promising. I scuffed the paint with Scotch-Brite a bit, then brushed on a coat of the polycrylic. The tacky/sticky is pretty much gone. HOWEVER, I did all of this tonight after the sun went down. Let's give it a few days in the summer heat and humidity, try a couple of different areas before we call it good.

Major concerns include:

1) It takes as many as 3 coats according to the label on the can.
2) How does heat (and cold) effect the coating?
3) Will it peal and check over time?
4) It's kind of a pain to work with (Not a bad thing if it actually works)
5) Expensive, about $17/quart, $45/gallon
Jim
My fingers are crossed that it works for you (and holds up over time). What was particularly difficult about working with it?
Laura
Thanks for the update!
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:24 PM   #11
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Just a lotta steps to "do it correctly".

I'm going to mask off an area tonight up high on the wall, on the theory that there's more heat up there, then put a couple of coats on there, let it sit a couple of days in the summer heat and humidity and see how it turns out. I checked the area painted last night when I got home from work and all of the tackiness is gone. Looks like this may actually work.

Have you heard back from S/W yet? I'm interested to hear what your guy has to say.

I'll keep posting the results here as it goes along.

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Old 08-24-2009, 09:21 PM   #12
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Well, we have some good news. This stuff is definitely taking the sticky out. Or, rather, covers it over. I decided to leave one test area with two coats and the other with only one coat. Two coats seem to cover better than one. The sticky isn't coming back thru the topcoat of the Polycrylic and it seems to be holding up pretty well to the heat and humidity.

I'm going to let it sit for a while longer before I put anymore up on the walls. If for no other reason than I want make sure it's not going to crack and peal in the heat.

Let me know if you need more info. I'll post back here if any problems pop up.

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:18 PM   #13
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I am a retired plastics engineer and have formulated many flexible PVC compounds. This sticky problem is common to many non-rigid PVC compounds. It is caused by the liquid plastiziers, that are used to make the PVC flexible, becoming incompatible with the rest of the PVC compound and being kicked out of solution or what we call "spewing". The degraded liquid plasticizers bleed to the surface of the PVC and then migrate into or combine with the top coat you have put on to cover up the problem. To be successful in the long run, you need to pick a top coat that is completely impermeable to the plasticizers. Otherwise, you will just cover up the problem till the plasticizers destroys the topcoat polymer. The underlying problem is the stabilizers in the plasticizers break down over time and the plasticizers degrade. You can not do much about that.
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:26 AM   #14
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Dwight, can you recommend something? Name brand, I mean.

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Old 08-25-2009, 10:57 AM   #15
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Dwight, can you recommend something? Name brand, I mean.

Jim

I was wanting to ask the same thing ... or what phrase to google to find "top coat that is completely impermeable to the plasticizers".

I am glad to hear you are having success with the Polycrylic. Two calls to S/W have gone unreturned. Time for a foot trip.

Laura
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:56 PM   #16
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Minwax Polycrylic is simply a waterbourne polyurethane product. I seriously doubt that it will be able to 'hold back' the disengrating and migrating plasticizers any better than the latex paint products--it is a good product just not likely able to do what they are saying it will do. I know of no product you could put OVER the latex based products that would hold back the spewing. They problably haven't called you back because there is no solution.

Our walls were a little sticky--cleaned them best we could and then used a double coat of oil based Zinsser primer and two top coats of Benjamin Moore alkyd (oil based). It is much more durable and is a lot better at holding back bleed through of anything. Messier to work with and stinkier (VOCs), but the payoff is in the extreme durability. We have had it in ours for a couple of years with zero problems.

I know this would be a nightmare but I would recommend stripping the latex products and go back with alkyd (both primer and top coats). The little foam cigar rollers will give a beautiful finish and make it easier to apply. Make sure you have lots of ventilation when applying alkyd products (fans, open windows). Follow the directions to the letter (don't apply late in the afternoon or in high humidity, etc.).

Whatever you do, do not put an oil based product over the latex product. When the oil based product cures out, it is very rigid and hard. Latex moves around a lot, even when cured--caused by changes in temperature and humidity. This repeated expansion and contraction will cause oil on top of latex to lose adhesion and begin to blister and fall off.
Best of luck,
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:09 PM   #17
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Well that brings up a whole 'nuther set of questions.

I primed (as did Funkill) with a primer that was supposedly designed for plastics. Sherwin Williams recommended the latex paint as a top coat for this primer. I'll grab the can and reread the specifics and post back here.

How would one go about stripping this product (or at least the latex top coat) at this point?

Jim
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:29 PM   #18
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Cantrell !!! has it right, for maxium durability a good oil-based, alkyd paint coating has been and still is the best. It is messy, stinks however the pros out way the cons. There is also a low odor oil-base coating . As far as the XIM primer, it is best used for non porous substrates like glass, ceramic tile etc.
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:35 PM   #19
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Well that brings up a whole 'nuther set of questions.

I primed (as did Funkill) with a primer that was supposedly designed for plastics. Sherwin Williams recommended the latex paint as a top coat for this primer. I'll grab the can and reread the specifics and post back here.

How would one go about stripping this product (or at least the latex top coat) at this point?

Jim
You don't have to strip it. Just clean the surface, prime with an oil-based primer, and use an oil-based finish. You can get a nice Satin or Semi-Gloss finish. If you have any concerns do a test area. You will love the finish of an oil-based paint, and it will last a long time.
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:38 PM   #20
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Whatever you do, do not put an oil based product over the latex product.

Best of luck,
Bill
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You don't have to strip it. Just clean the surface, prime with an oil-based primer, and use an oil-based finish. You can get a nice Satin or Semi-Gloss finish. If you have any concerns do a test area. You will love the finish of an oil-based paint, and it will last a long time.
Oh, my head is going to explode!!!!

Laura
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