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Old 12-16-2019, 05:54 AM   #1
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West Wyoming Rendezvous 2020

Just before midnight I went to my mental chalk board and erased everything previously considered.

My first duty was to Email Thalweg about this at 12:13AM this morning. I do not expect a response, even though I am on Pacific Time and he, Mountain Time, an hour later. Trust me, Thalweg will be overwhelmed with enthusiasm, of some sort.

There will be a WEST and an EAST Wyoming group, that will meet at a Rendezvous Campsite on a date predetermined. Thalweg will lead the EAST Wyoming Rendezvous. I will attempt to do the same with the WEST Wyoming Rendezvous group.

WHY you say? The West Group driving to Laramie, Wyoming for example, would add 500 or more miles from Boulder City, just to turn around and head back west. This will eliminate this overlap. That would be my situation today. Not necessary.

The 2016 Wyoming Adventure I was living in Castle Rock, Colorado. Laramie made sense. Now... not, so.

The Westerners will depart Boulder City, Nevada on a date that provides ample time to arrive at the Rendezvous Camp, but Boondock on the way.

The Easterners will depart Laramie, Wyoming or meeting point that Thalweg will designate. Buffalo, Wyoming is the gateway to the Big Horn Mountains... so... Laramie may be out. Thalweg will get his dusty maps out and work it out.

As this is a Western Stew and an Eastern Stew being made, the gathering from Boulder City, Nevada will gather earlier to arrive to the Rendezvous Point. The Eastern Group will depart to make the Rendezvous Point at what date that works. Thalweg will whip this together like Sour Dough pancakes to suit the Eastern group's timing.

If someone is better off leaving Boulder City from their home, you chose. I will fix the number at FIVE trailers. Interstates take up less room, so that would leave room for an additional trailer. If a second Interstate is coming along, then the additional trailer becomes a standby.

I will be looking at the month of June weather history for Highs and Lows. At this moment on my clock, 4:55AM... June 1st from Boulder City to the High Country. This may change, but the Mohave Desert is already hot here and any cool weather would be a better option.

The Thread I post as the WEST Prefix is for those meeting ME at Boulder City.

The Thread Thalweg will be posting will have the Prefix EAST.

The West meeting the East Groups... is the knot that binds the rest of the Adventure at the Rendezvous Point. From there we will be traveling together, more, maybe less...
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:57 PM   #2
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June 3, 2020 Boulder City, Nevada 9AM Departure

I considered the months of July or August.

Trying to accommodate various considerations and being a follower of the Custer Decision making process of 1876, I am offering June 3, 2020 and departing Boulder City, Nevada and rolling at 9AM.

I am planning on four days to arrive at a predetermined Rendezvous Wyoming camp, where West is expected to combine with the East group on June 8 and depart at 9AM on June 9 from the Rendezvous campsite.

I have considered weather. I have considered the day length of sunlight hours. I have considered Highs and Lows from last year, at a number of locations AND also the Average Highs and Lows over recent years. Accuweather is what I used.

Yes, weather occurs. It could be hot to cool. It could be dry or wet. Any number of chronic possibilities and procrastinate the Summer away.

Climate Change predicts hotter and drier. I predict weather will be no different than the areas visited and will be within normal ranges. Too hot is not an option, considering southern Nevada will already be into the 90's.

Custer rode into Battle June 25th, 1876 into history. This is good enough for me and I hope others agree.

Anyone interested, I suggest you can either post on this Thread or PM me directly through the Airforum PM system. I will then have some questions and also answer your questions.

Once I have some interest and questions being answered, this I will follow through. Shortly I will post some general information as to direction the West Group will travel into Wyoming. Mostly a Geological and Archaeological Expedition into Wyoming.

I am being vague on purpose.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:07 PM   #3
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Basic Required Equipment:

1. Snowblower
2. Tire Chains
3. Winch
4. Much Boots
5. Toboggan
6. ????
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:51 PM   #4
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Wyoming Rendezvous...

I don't see an East Wyoming Rendezvous 2020 thread so I'll post here for now.

This East/West thing sounds interesting. We enjoyed the 2016 outing and have envisioned doing something like that again. There were some challenges associated with the 2016 gathering - fires, rain, attrition to mention a few.

We are certainly interested in seeing Wyoming again and tentatively planned to do so either prior to, or immediately following the WBCCI rally that will be held in Loveland, CO in mid to late June. We are interested in your sojourn but have a commitment from approximately June 13 to June 29. Depending on the dates you select, and if we meet the criteria (no snowblower at this point), maybe we'll see you and Thalweg in 2020! We definitely have plenty of ????? - I keep those in my back pocket and have a truck bed full of them.
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:38 AM   #5
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Attrition...yes, beginning after the first night.

Common to these “adventures“ has been targeting, tirades, mean spirited behavior and without notice leaving people behind.

I’ve seriously debated saying anything, in spite of public and private prompts the past few years, but feel it is important to others considering these “adventures”.

Brent and Connie (Thalweg) were unable to make the 2016 trip, and their presence may have made a difference.

Be careful.

Maggie
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Lily&Me View Post
Attrition...yes, beginning after the first night.

Common to these “adventures“ has been targeting, tirades, mean spirited behavior and without notice leaving people behind.

I’ve seriously debated saying anything, in spite of public and private prompts the past few years, but feel it is important to others considering these “adventures”.

Brent and Connie (Thalweg) were unable to make the 2016 trip, and their presence may have made a difference.

Be careful.

Maggie
********
Please Maggie, open the pot and spill the beans.

This could be very interesting and I can post your 2016 Wyoming Adventure emails of the gushing and blushing. How I reminded you of your late husband.

Nancy explained to me the other night about the moment your attitude changed and it was at Alpine, Wyoming after stopping at the Yankee Doodles Cafe. You never mentioned what I heard and now understand why. You had a lot of memories there in the past. We stop there all of the time. What a coincidence.

I sent you an email last week about this unusual behavior, but was sorry to hear the rest of the story. You did not explain, nor stuck around for some reason after that stop. You never responded to my email.

Please mention everything. I want people to compare your contributions, to what I have done. How was the 2015 New Mexico Adventure? You obviously loved it as you did not mention that. You were among the First for later Adventures...

Thalweg made it to the Double Cabin site out of DuBois. That was when he had time off. He has vacation time to work with now. He encouraged me to offer another 'adventure'.

Please... do not restrain yourself, as everyone needs to know why, where and what. Especially myself. This would be quite entertaining and may clear the air, as I said in your non response a week or so ago to my wanting to heal this relationship.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:48 AM   #7
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And there you have it.

I rest my case.

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Old 12-17-2019, 10:21 AM   #8
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And there you have it.

I rest my case.

Maggie
*****

Maggie, you are still a sweet heart. I agree.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:21 PM   #9
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Feelings and Facts are not the same

The 'attrition the first night' was really in the morning of the second day.

When camped, we open the trailer door and let our two Heelers out. Have been doing this, since owning a trailer and camped in the forest, plains, mountains...

OTG Boondocking on Beaver Divide, Wyoming, we had a knock on the trailer door, the morning of the second day. A member had a 'rescue dog' and was not comfortable with other dogs running around. The couple had Thalweg's maps and said they would do the Adventure on their own.

OK, with me. They were nice to explain what was up.

I understood. My wife does not let me run around without some kind of restraint, when inside a store. I could be considered a 'service husband' for security.

So... this was not my doing. I blame tradition of camped OTG, minding our own business at these campsites, where we are by ourselves.

I have been in the buying and selling business for 60 years. You learn a lot about people just by watching them and how they react. Sometimes, no matter what you do, some people expect something that is not part of the... deal. All explained after 500 or more posts on the 2016 Wyoming Adventure thread.

"I am not a Tour Guide. I will get you in and out of these remote OTG Boondocking sites. I have done it already. Once there it is up to you. Not me. This is your adventure." This was repeated often on the 2016 Wyoming thread.

This is NOT the same as the Adventures. This is a Rendezvous and for those interested in Geology, Paleontology, Archaeology and I am well versed in these areas. I will be part of the Entertainment... although many find the sciences drier than air. I have a 10,000 book library with maps. Even professionals will go into a permanent sleep reading this stuff. I... love it. Gold to Meteorites... ooooh weeee.

As Thalweg and I understand, some individuals want to be catered, as IF we are feeding, tending their horses and shoveling horse s*it as part of the tour guiding and catering to their needs and wants. Not necessarily anyone in particular, but my wife can write the personalities and go from there.

This is not our first Rodeo, of sorts. This becomes a Bronco Busting experience that needs to be explained in a clear thought process before the ride begins. This clear and direct attention to detail is MY personality. Many find having a direct conversation from someone, other than their mother or spouse, is a violation of their position at their office or treating us as paid guides or employee.

OTG Boondocking is not Glamping or social gatherings of hundreds. Very few individuals do this and fewer want to learn. That is fine. It is not giving me saddle sores, but the pain can be obvious. A pain in this same area, comparison.

These remote areas for the Glamper... is not safe. It is not safe for an experienced OTG camper, although parking lots have different animals on the prowl.

If someone can handle unpredictable weather, has the courage of a Rancher looking for good ranch hands and an interest in looking around for discovery... this could be your first, possibly last opportunity.

There is NO profit for my wife and I taking our time and offering an opportunity to others. We have spent time at fossil fish quarries to hunting the Badlands of Nebraska on ranches... with others that think like we do. Those involved are very particular whom they allow as newbies will ruin more stuff than recover. Most I have know since the mid 1960's when I had a driver's permit and a 1956 VW. All have since died, ranches sold and corporate ranching leasing fossil rights, today.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:38 PM   #10
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Feelings and Facts are not the same

The 'attrition the first night' was really in the morning of the second day.

When camped, we open the trailer door and let our two Heelers out. Have been doing this, since owning a trailer and camped in the forest, plains, mountains... OTG Boondocking I had a knock the morning of the second day. A member had a 'rescue dog' and was not comfortable with other dogs running around. The couple had Thalweg's maps and said they would do the Adventure on their own.

OK, with me.

I understood. My wife does not let me run around without some kind of restraint, when inside a store. I could be considered a 'service husband' for security.

So... this was not my doing. I blame tradition of camped OTG, minding our own business at these campsites, where we are by ourselves.

I have been in the buying and selling business for 60 years. You learn a lot about people just by watching them and how they react. Sometimes, no matter what you do, some people expect something that is not part of the... deal. All explained after 500 or more posts on the 2016 Wyoming Adventure.

"I am not a Tour Guide. I will get you in and out of these remote OTG Boondocking sites. I have done it already. Once there it is up to you. Not me."

This is NOT the same as the Adventures. This is a Rendezvous and for those interested in Geology, Paleontology, Archaeology and as being well versed in these areas... I will be part of the Entertainment... although many find the sciences drier than air.

As Thalweg and I understand, some individuals want to be catered as if those, feeding the horses and shoveling horse s*it also are tour guides and cater to their needs and wants. Not necessarily anyone in particular, but my wife can write the personalities and go from there. Some have a * next to their name, if you get my drift.

This is not our first Rodeo, of sorts.

OTG Boondocking is not Glamping or social gatherings of hundreds. Very few individuals do this and fewer want to learn. That is fine. It is not giving me saddle sores, but the pain can be obvious. A pain in this same area, comparison.

These remote areas for the Glamper... are out of their comfort zone and not safe. It is not a picnic in the park for an experienced OTG camper. Parking lots have different animals on the prowl. If you are not experienced, be careful and listen.

If someone can handle unpredictable weather, has the courage of a Rancher looking for good ranch hands and an interest in looking around for discovery... this could be your first, possibly last opportunity.

There is NO profit for my wife and I taking our time and offering an opportunity to others. We have spent time at fossil fish quarries to hunting the Badlands of Nebraska on ranches... with others that think like we do. Those involved are very particular whom they allow as newbies will ruin more stuff than recover. Most I have known since the mid 1960's when I had a driver's permit and a 1956 VW under 16 years old. All have since died, ranches sold and corporate ranching leasing fossil rights, today.
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Old 12-17-2019, 01:19 PM   #11
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Nancy corrected me. Everyone's dogs were running loose that morning. Even Lily. Sir Guiness. Que. Blue & Dingo. Even dogs need to have fun.

When climbing our dogs climb with us. I will lift Dingo and Blue up to the next level at times, due to the difficulty. Somehow people can really have a weird way of reacting, some times. They consider it... abuse. Me? Or our Dogs?

The rescue dog owners were not angry or upset. They just were afraid their dog would not be as passive.

On the 2015 New Mexico Adventure... one very aggressive dog actual bit another member and tore her pants. Jen, myself and maybe someone else sat on the tailgate where the dog was now being kept to help the dog adjust to all the people and dogs. I do not recall their names, but the wife was from Panama and very understanding.

So... if you want Fun, Travel and Adventure... You are prepared.

No clue about duplicate posts. I post and then find grammar issues, then the weird stuff begins to take over.
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Old 12-17-2019, 02:01 PM   #12
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Why do some of us even want to try this?

OK... Nancy wants to hear whats going on. I let it roll off and I forget the details. She filled in the blanks that others have no clue what I know and what they think they know. Almost like grade school play ground activities.

This WAS THEIR VACATION and it was nice some found places worth staying, versus going into the Oregon Buttes and the Red Desert area to the east of the mountains.

- One member hired a fishing guide out of DuBois and were staying there with another couple who were on the adventure. They were also planning a trip to Alaska together.

Susan and Dave's plans included jumping off after Jackson as they were heading home at a convenient spot back to Oregon.

Gerard and wife stayed at Grey's River as the fishing was great. They have returned since then to the great camping spots that they never would have discovered.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:15 PM   #13
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I give up... Thank You

I need to agree with my wife that I should not continue.

She does not need to get involved and there is no purpose left for me.

There are no winners in this. I suggest that Thalweg do what he is most comfortable with doing with his part to the East.

I will be no longer participate on the Airforums.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:41 PM   #14
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No good deed goes unpunished...and this too shall pass.

Never fear Ray, 99.9% have no idea what's going on here, including me.

We still need your ramblings to continue. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.
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Old 12-18-2019, 07:35 AM   #15
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No good deed goes unpunished...and this too shall pass.

Never fear Ray, 99.9% have no idea what's going on here, including me.

We still need your ramblings to continue. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.
Ditto to mojo's comment.
Ray, the wife and I are interested in the June rendezvous. Sounds like our kind of fun.
I hope we can talk more about eq needed. Like you I might have too many shovels. I don't want to bring to much stuff. Chainsaws, GPR, snowblower, power posthole digger, 3-D Lidar flying drones, etc.

-Dennis
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:23 AM   #16
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Not Fun

Let me try to explain the situation as I see it.

When Ray and I began discussing this adventure, it sounded like fun. As we worked through the details, it quickly became “not fun”.

Ray and Nancy are skilled boondockers. Connie and I are skilled boondockers. Many people on this forum are skilled boondockers. One thing that I am sure all of us would agree on is that boondocking requires adaptability. Ray and Nancy know the areas that they travel very well and often visit places they’ve been before. However, if an obstacle gets in their way, or conditions change, they adapt. They adapt within the limitations of their skills, equipment, and experience. Many of Ray’s posts over the years could be broken down into adapting, whether it is pulling out a chain saw to move a tree that has fallen across the road, or cleaning an outhouse at a campground. It’s all adapting to the situation that they have encountered.

When traveling with a group, ones ability to adapt is quickly diminished. If you’re tooling down a two-track road with one other rig, and all of a sudden you come to an obstacle, you stop and discuss it and decide what to do. That is usually not a big deal, but it is one extra level of complexity. If you’re traveling down the same road with 3, 4, …10 rigs, all of a sudden it is a big deal. How do you get everyone turned around within the limits of their skills, equipment, and experience? What do you do now that you cannot get to your planned site? In this situation, you cannot really have a discussion. Someone has to be in charge and make a decision, and the options for a group are always severely limited. The only way to deal with this is through planning. You’ve got to have contingencies for unexpected events. However, as Helmuth Von Moltke said during the Prussian War, “No plan survives contact with the enemy”. So you’ve got to have contingencies for contingencies. Options may not be available. We also have to be wary of keeping people happy. There will be a wide variety of emotions involved. If the guy in charge decides that we’re all camping in the Walmart parking lot in Rawlins, WY, he may be strung up in the nearest Ponderosa pine. Okay, there are no trees near Rawlins, but you get the point. We’ve lost our ability to adapt. Not fun.

I suspect that I contributed greatly to this becoming “not fun” for Ray. I am privy to many issues within the BLM that most people are not. The timing and location of much of the proposed adventure gave me great concerns regarding muddy conditions. This is an ever-increasing issue on BLM administered land. Rutting of roads, and more importantly, off the roads where one might set up camp is a big issue. Ray and Nancy can adapt to these conditions. Connie and I can adapt. We have four-wheel drive vehicles. We know the challenges of muddy clay roads. We can read the topography to assess where conditions are suitable for camping, or not, and we adapt. However, adapting for a group is “not fun”. Some people will have vehicles that cannot traverse clay mud well. Trust me, when you start sliding sideways down a hill slope toward a cliff, things can get tense. We have to consider all of this when planning these trips. Not fun.

So, Ray and Nancy are going to do their trips; but they will do it on their terms, with their ability to adapt fully in-tact. Ray pulled the plug on the group trip because all of the fun had been drained away during the planning process. However, I was leaning heavily to pulling the plug myself. Ray just beat me to it.

Connie and I are still planning a Wyoming boondock trip this summer, and if others want to tag along, that would be fine. Contact me through Private Message and I’ll tell you where we’re going. It will probably be in middle to late July, as that will be the best time to access some of the higher elevations that I’m intending to explore. However, I’ve never explored the area that we’re going, so my planning abilities are limited. I will have plans to adapt relative to Connie and me. If you come along, you will have to be prepared to be responsible for yourself, with your own abilities to adapt.

If anyone wants to do a little trip in the Bighorns of Wyoming, I can put that together on the spur of the moment. Weekend trips up there are regular events. We'd be happy to have a little impromptu trip there. If we can't go, I can at least provide advise.
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:25 AM   #17
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Thalweg,
Thank you for explaining the situation.

The dear wife and I don't usually participate in group event much but love Rays witty humor. We had thought this would be a great way to meet up and share some good times with you all. Very unfortunate.
I for one try to have my own backup plan even when I am part of a group event. It is nice to have reliable advice from someone who has been there before and does this often. However things happen unexpectedly at times that can end all forward momentum in it's tracks.
If the leader falls ill or someone in the group has issues. These things happen in life. Everyone should have there own backup plan. I is not fair to expect someone else to be responsible for me or my good time.
I am a simple guy who likes to get off the roads into the back country and have the place to our selves. I have a 4x4 and all the tools needed to get me in and out of most places I want to go. If you give me a Lat-Lon. I will meet you there. But I don't expect to be mollycoddled the whole time.
Perhaps we will meet down the dirt road sometime.

-Dennis
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:28 AM   #18
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Dennis,

You sound like my kind of guy. If you're ever in the area of the Bighorns of Wyoming, give me a shout. We can get together and swap tall tales.
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Old 12-19-2019, 04:43 PM   #19
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I am interested.....
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