West Pack Out your POOP: Colorado Public Radio

[n2916s]

Wildlife excrement carries very few pathogens that are zoonotic so a human is extremely unlikely to pick up anything from exposure to it.

Human excrement, on the other hand, ranges from mildly to very pathogenic and those pathogens are already adapted to a human host.

Cat-holing, the accepted means to deal with it for decades, just doesn’t work that well when you have huge numbers of people on a landscape that used to be remote and seldom visited. And, a lot of folks don’t even bother to dig — there are places near Moab where you can’t hike 10 yards without encountering a pile.

Hard to fault the land agencies for trying to get ahead of the problem.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Wildlife excrement carries very few pathogens that are zoonotic so a human is extremely unlikely to pick up anything from exposure to it.

Human excrement, on the other hand, ranges from mildly to very pathogenic and those pathogens are already adapted to a human host.

Cat-holing, the accepted means to deal with it for decades, just doesn’t work that well when you have huge numbers of people on a landscape that used to be remote and seldom visited. And, a lot of folks don’t even bother to dig — there are places near Moab where you can’t hike 10 yards without encountering a pile.

Hard to fault the land agencies for trying to get ahead of the problem.

Hey, poop happens! The extremists are "poopping" up all over now days...we do hike in Moab each year, and never see the problem your describing. Soon, you will be required to just stay home so as not to harm the environment....look long enough, you can dig up concerns about everything humans do...crazy folks out there taking over the way we live...

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Wildlife excrement carries very few pathogens that are zoonotic so a human is extremely unlikely to pick up anything from exposure to it.

Human excrement, on the other hand, ranges from mildly to very pathogenic and those pathogens are already adapted to a human host.

Cat-holing, the accepted means to deal with it for decades, just doesn’t work that well when you have huge numbers of people on a landscape that used to be remote and seldom visited. And, a lot of folks don’t even bother to dig — there are places near Moab where you can’t hike 10 yards without encountering a pile.

Hard to fault the land agencies for trying to get ahead of the problem.

Hey, poop happens! The extremists are "poopping" up all over now days...we do hike in Moab each year, and never see the problem your describing. Soon, you will be required to just stay home so as not to harm the environment....look long enough, you can dig up concerns about everything humans do...crazy folks out there taking over the way we live... I would say, change where you hike if your concerned.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I'm not as bothered by one thing vs another. What does get me bothered is folks scattering their trash ( of whatever sort ) all over the place and then taking off. Next guy does the same and on and on. Net result is what was once a nice boon docking site now looks like a trash heap.

If enough folks do this in enough places, rules will get written. Those rules are pretty much never going to be "crafted". It's much easer to write and enforce simple. That's true pretty much any time rules get written .....

Bob

[Silvr_Bullet]

There are some stupid, uncaring, irresponsible people who do not care one iota for the environment and others that will use the space they just decimated and are teaching others with them to be like them. Their gene pool is corrupt. Sometimes in the name of personal freedom, how sick is that. We have many scenic parking areas in our area that have been closed off, no longer accessible to the public because people leave their garbage strewn all over. I was once in a gas station I saw a dirty diaper against the fuel pump, how inconsiderate.

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

******


Look at the border crossing into the USA. Trash. Poop? You betcha. What is up with that?

Crossed into Canada and back several times this summer. No trash seen...

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

Crossed into Canada and back several times this summer. No trash seen...

Because you haven’t seen it, it’s not happening?

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

There are some stupid, uncaring, irresponsible people who do not care one iota for the environment and others that will use the space they just decimated and are teaching others with them to be like them. Their gene pool is corrupt. Sometimes in the name of personal freedom, how sick is that. We have many scenic parking areas in our area that have been closed off, no longer accessible to the public because people leave their garbage strewn all over. I was once in a gas station I saw a dirty diaper against the fuel pump, how inconsiderate.

*****
You have a nose for finding evidence. I do as well. I have a doo doo schnoz like our Blue Heelers.
*******
I do not mind using the Men's restroom at a Service Station while traveling.

In the mirror, I pass as a Male Neanderthal, or a Human Bean with excess hormones. I carefully look at the Door Drawing with something that resembles, myself, carefully. No, I leave my walking stick in the tow vehicle.

Men must have a short hose to pee all over the floor, standing in front of a urinal. I consider it like target shooting, you have a target and hit bullseyes. Who wants to change their socks frequently?

I wear sandals and can hit the 'Bee glazed into the Urinal'. 100% of the time. I do not want our two Blue Heelers sniffing my feet all week.

Toilet Seats used at work places, OSHA required that the solid toilet lid have the front center cut out, or updated toilet seats that did. Seat Lifters and Non-Lifters were a problem beginning in 1970, it seems.

Some toilet seats will have toilet paper stuck around the seat, by a previous 'pooper'. Some places have a toilet seat paper to easily apply and then flush after use.

Obviously for those preferring sterile conditions from filthy Human Bean Butts.

Butt, Seriously. A new Generation of Campers have evolved from the habits they learned at home, living in their Parent's Basement. Mom cleaned for them until reaching 35, and then told them to leave or pay rent.

A suitcase and a roll of toilet paper, optional. And a swift kick in the Butt, helped.

My Dad worked some time for the Forest Service. He never had a Poop Advisory from the NFS, NPS or BLM. People understood, at one time, that trails are for Hiking. If you have to whiz or poop, step into the brush some distance from the trail. Naturally, Grizzly and Black Bear await to eliminate those who are not paying attention. That use to solve some problems.

I am Pooped Out from changing the F350 Diesel Oil and Filter after our last great Adventure. A Pain in the Butt, butt saves me money, doing it right.

[Ray Eklund]

From my close examination of RV and Trailer owners, I would be very surprised if 100% can squat in the Boondocks and HIT a Cathole. Even with practice. Some would not be able to recover as their knees would give out.

Those hiking and biking are a different story. They squat, do some pushups, squeeze water out of a hand held container...while walking, talking, biking, pooping, peeing... eating, you name it.

Do not get me wrong. Or do, I have a problem with observing close up or at a distance the Ratio between The hiking/biking population and the RV/Trailer populations.

The Ratio of Pooping near a Mountain Trail is 99% healthy hikers and bikers.

The Ratio of Pooping near a trailer, outside, is 75% healthy hikers and bikers.

Those who are Neanderthals tromping through the Forest are 99% likely to roll a large rock over, Poop... gather up leaves or toilet paper into a plastic bag.

Human Poop eaten by animals is like health food to joggers.

Our Blue Heelers are no exception... they can dig... but cannot roll over a 8 pound boulder. They do find the Poop Pile left by humans quickly. If I see too much interest close to our trailer... yep... Jock Poop. Healthy, but disgusting, non the less.

Many commenting, myself excluded, may have not spent any time Off the Grid. At least, we have not seen many where we go. Airstream owners gather at other kinds of parking, much like Geese like Lakes.

Costco Toilet Paper is best. From personal experience. Carry the last 20% of the roll when away from the trailer.

No, we do not need a plastic five gallon bucket no our exploring the wilderness. We do what the Pioneers did for hundreds years, outside town and city limits, of course.

What does get to me. Horse owners will tow off the highway, and shovel out their horse trailer. Found that at one of our last favorite campsites. Human Poop dries and gone in no time. Hay infested horse poop will remain for YEARS.

If you can Squat and Poop off the grid... you already know what you are doing.

Human Poop has not killed any animals I am familiar with, as it is carnivores that find it satisfying, as do YOUR Dog. If your Poop is full of bad bacteria and viruses... you should be in a Hospital, not Pooping in the Forest.

[Mollysdad]

What if you live in Colorado?
Take it from one place to another?
Mail it to California?
Launch it into space?

I used to ride my motorcycle all over Colorado, loved it.
Do you know how many times I encountered 'meadow muffins' on the road?
It's open range so cows might just be ahead.
I always took it as a good hazard warning, "Cattle ahead!"

Originally Posted by n2916s

Hard to fault the land agencies for trying to get ahead of the problem.

Glad they have nothing better to do. Wanna bet the solution will be a poop tax!

If I made a list of things I'm concerned about, "My unruly pathogens are escaping" is not near the top.

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

From my close examination of RV and Trailer owners, I would be very surprised if 100% can squat in the Boondocks and HIT a Cathole. Even with practice.

This is a skill that you begin to hone from your first camping trip as a Boy Scout. I’ll never forget my first experience with this. I thought I did everything that they told me to do. When the time was right, I found a suitable location in the woods to do my business. I dropped my trousers and assumed the squatting position. I then proceeded to release the contents of my bowels directly into my trousers, which were down around my ankles. First lesson on how to poop in the woods learned…

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

We were along the Oregon Trail and Lander Cutoff in Wyoming several weeks ago.

Nothing to report. No toilet paper. Butt wipes. Obviously the evidence was being picked up and held for a conviction by concerned non poopers.

The Angus and Herefords leave their Vegetarian Pies everywhere. Elk nuggets, OK. Antelope nuggets, OK. Vegetarians... rule.

We did not USE THE TOILET IN OUR AIRSTREAM for two weeks. Too much effort...

We were towing our 2019 Oliver Elite II...

So Ray, how is the Ollie stacking up maintenance wise to the Airstream?

[xpcdoojk]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

So Ray, how is the Ollie stacking up maintenance wise to the Airstream?

That desperate to change the subject?

jc

[Ray Eklund]

Men and boys discuss Poop as if it is a discussion about Politics. You just go... vote and cut loose hoping to get it right, the first time. I like Dennis C. and his story. I lasted one year as a Cub Scout... when you are six feet tall, hair all over at 12 years old... friends are hard to find.

Western Nebraska has tall Prairie Grass and Badlands. Fewer choices, but with great views, from all directions. The sod hinges out with the shovel leverage... as the flush handle... drop the goods... pack down with your foot. Next Spring... the best looking grass for miles.

Toilet paper is inserted into a plastic bag to add to our trash. The toilet paper is still sterile... if you use it only once. Newspapers are something else you can use, if you clip out the articles you like... before, not after use. Just saying.

Nancy made shoulder bags out of $1000 of U S Mint Quarter canvas bags bought at a shop for $1 each. Sewed in a side pocket for dog treats, too. We collect rocks and fossils that fit into the bag. The Bag Says... "Please Do Not Cut Bag When Opening". She just added thread and a pocket and a shoulder strap. She is a Human Bean Seamstress. Yaaaa Hooo. I say.

For 'Foiled Again' and 'xpcdoojk':

There is a post on the Forum of a member who purchased a used Airstream that was parked in a heated garage in the Winter? and then parked in the grass the rest of the time. I was involved in some discussions of what you might discover after the fact of purchase and listening to the sales pitch.

Our 2019 Oliver Elite II, is similar in interior space as a 23 foot Airstream. After taking the Oliver through the same areas of our 23, 25 and 27FBQ... the Oliver is among the finest Travel Trailers for Off the Grid Boondocking. I would put our 25 Foot International as the finest, with the extra space, possibility to add 3 inch lift, Solar Panels and maybe five ounces of Lath Screws, some floor braces for walls... and it would be my personal choice for an all around Travel Trailer.

The 2019 International 27FBQ has gone where the Oliver has traveled this year. It is now as close to perfection for Off and On the Grid camping. It also has 3 inch lift, 16 inch Michelins and reinforced front cabinet up front with aluminum bars and brackets. So far... so good.

Length is easier to back up... but the driver has to be very good judging clearances.

If time comes to move one trailer along... it would be most likely the Airstream. Not because it cannot go where we want it to, but the Oliver has all the room we need.

Both trailers being towed by a F350 4x4 on the ball. Smooth. No sway. Track perfectly. The Oliver weighs around 7,000 pounds. A bit lighter than the Airstream and I cannot recall but maybe 7200 pounds?. Twin Beds takes some skill to sleep upon. The younger Blue Heeler wants to snuggle up when the outside temperature gets below 40. Great foot warmer, too.

[Mollysdad]

I looked closer and saw that the concern was from "Colorado Public Radio".
Thanks for your concern, now get a job.

[xpcdoojk]

They never do, and they think they are saving the world.

JMHO and YMMV

JC

[WestieHouse]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Next, you will have to watch where you exhale while hiking...don't want that breath to kill the plants!

That comment, though made in jest, illustrates some of the misinformation implicit in a number of the previous comments. Plants actually use the CO2 we exhale during photosynthesis.

Many comments fail to consider a few basic principles:
1. dosage matters - a “little” poop (or any substance, including water) is quite different than too much
2. population density is an important consideration and this has changed as technology has supported more humans having access to more remote places
3. aesthetics are important to many folks, though some folks don’t seem to mind junk strewn about the landscape or toilet paper clinging to bushes
4. mountaineers have carried their poop off of glaciers for many decades - they melt that snow/ice for drinking water (boiling temperature at elevation isn’t high enough to kill bacteria)
5. humans and animals have different vulnerabilities to microbes - many eat carrion without ill effects
6. a human trait that varies considerably among all of us is the degree of balance between concern for self vs concern for society /others.
7. Most of us have seen far more human poop (and dog poop) than that from all other species combined. The sole exception may be city dwellers seeing large amount of pigeon or seagull poop.
💩

[Mollysdad]

While we're pulled over by the poop police to see if any of our catch and release are over the legal limit, I just read a story where San Francisco and the surrounding towns are dumping millions of gallons of untreated sewage into the bay.
Let's keep some perspective. Not everything is a crisis.

[Sophiehaus]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I'm with you on that. Two popular hiking trails and a dog park were closed in my area because people won't pick up after their dogs. It's irresponsible behavior.

One of the hiking trails was littered with dog poop bags. People felt that they were doing their job by picking up after their dog, but then they dropped the full bag of poop at the trailhead and left it there. There were hundreds if not thousands of bags on the ground. Despicable.

Many people leave their dog poop bags near the trailhead (dogs poop early on the hike due to excitement). The vast major pick up their bags when they return to the trailhead. Then they dispose of them in trash cans provided or take them home for disposal. Only an irresponsible few don’t pick up their bags when returning. Sometimes others pick them up.

[Sophiehaus]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

While we're pulled over by the poop police to see if any of our catch and release are over the legal limit, I just read a story where San Francisco and the surrounding towns are dumping millions of gallons of untreated sewage into the bay.
Let's keep some perspective. Not everything is a crisis.

Exactly!