West Owning YOUR OWN Boondocking Site

[Ray Eklund]

Why?

After Boondocking for 14 years in three Airstreams and camping in a tent often since 1965, I never regretted NOT OWNING property I could visit often and leave at will.

No Property Taxes. No road to maintain. Mailbox in a town miles away. No electricity. No water, unless you spend to have a water well drilled with water that will dissolve a copper pipe in three years? Or two gallons per minute recharge, possibly nothing at 300 feet, how about 800 feet? Truck water to the 'camp'? Sewage. No shade. Too much shade.

Remember... this wonderful place is being SOLD by an Owner. Obviously... it has to be wonderful? Or not?

Sit down and think of all of the disadvantages.

If I become tired of the view Boondocking, I attach the Airstream and move to another new site, new views and new things to explore.

No matter where you own a place to park your trailer... you will discover it becomes... OLD and Familiar.

Obviously those posting on another Thread are 'Boondocking Dreamers'. We have been to a hundred wonderful Boondocking Off the Grid sites and after five or six visits... the 'thrill is gone'.

The majority of Trailer Owners have never parked in an isolated location for one day. Five months? Two years? They will be eating their... pets.

Paying $10,000 an acre in an area for vacant land? How about vacant land in the desert of southern Nevada for a bargain in comparison and after two days... ready to give the property away. Winter in the 70's and Summer at 115 F. Be careful to understand the seasons change. No electricity? No problem, run a generator on Propane 24 hours a day...

We paid $150,000 EXTRA for the... view in addition to the Lot Price to build a home. Five had 'the View for an additional $150,000 for .55 acre lot', and five looking at the front of our home... views for the price of a lot. The Lake and Mountains look the same, every day.

The view... looks the same after five years. We go OTG Boondocking. If you think Lake Front property along the Flathead Lake on NW Montana is less than... lets say $250,000 for 150 feet of lake frontage is high... good luck. Recheck the price with a shack for sale that you will tear down to place your Airstream.

You can camp for 16 Days Boondocking in Utah for free. Move five miles, 16 Days, return to the previous site. Some do not leave for the Summer. In the Winter you need a snowmobile. In the Summer an ATV. Gasoline is 45 miles away. No electricity. No propane. No Cell Service.

A 25 acres Corn Field in Missouri? A farm is not selling 25 acres to someone wanting to Camp Out and possibly become a problem.

Think seriously about this. We are already tried and bored of visiting our 'favorite sites'. After years of visiting the 'mystery of exploring' is gone. You will become tired and bored at the Same Place, after a month. Try a year, or ten.

Not us. Been there. Done it. Even 500 acres in the forest... ZZZZZZ.

I would be happy to eat my words or answer any response wanting my experience. It sounds great at first... but when the luster is worn off... you will be SELLING to the next dreamer... and do not expect to break even. You most likely will not.

Call it an Experience... and move on. An RV Park in comparison is a bargain.

[SYC2Vette]

You make some great points and probably majority would agree with you.

I think the main draw of owning a piece of property that you could boondock on for some folks is that it fulfills a desire to "own a piece of dirt" somewhere nice. This is probably especially true for folks who may have gone fulltime and sold their home and/or their vacation condo or cabin. Some kind of "roots" so to speak, and not a place they would actually spend the majority of their time at either.

[Ray Eklund]

One interesting point many miss are the State Tax Commissions. If you are a part time resident with earned income while a resident... or an income from that State, or from another State, you may want to check that out. A home in two States can become a bit more expensive if you have not checked.

State Trailer rules for bringing your, other State Licensed trailer, into another State and living in it on your property. Some States have CHEAP plates, others are expensive and these States are aware of this...

Bulk Fresh Water Delivery costs to your Boondocking Home on the Hill.

Black and / or Grey water pickup or disposal.

Trash disposal.

Real Estate Taxes.

Insurance. Fire Codes. Fencing. Improvement Permits. Zoning. Non Residential property rules and regulations. County Regulations. State Safety Requirements.

XXXXXX State Tax Commission

We have hunted for that Special Cabin where we could live in peace and quiet with few restrictions... without neighbors with numerous junk cars, boats, trailers, hoarders of used lumber, farm equipment, rotting trees never used for firewood.

We have been looking for that Special Place for thirty years in the Rocky Mountains. Still looking.

I NEED a PURPOSE. If I run out of things to do... I am bored to DEATH. It is a slow death sitting around on your Arse with nothing to do... It could take a week, month or a year... but IT WILL happen.

Go to www.landwatch.com

They are very good offering real estate across the USA. Hunt. Sniff around. Be smart. Anyone can post on the Forum how happy they are... but... we have encountered people living in a trailer and you could not give us the property or whatever was parked there. I would not describe their appearance nor living conditions... you would not believe it unless I took you there.

Search. Go look at the area. Water, water and Electricity. Groceries 75 miles away is possible. Medical facilities... well, if in need check around. You will pay for convenience. A LOT.

I know it is fun to think about that special place... if you have lots of money to burn... it is possible. If you want to live on the 'cheap', play it smart. The State RV Parks are full of transients that stay the limit, move to the next Park for the limit and then return. Check out Quartzite, Arizona. City on Wheels. Many are experts in this life style.

I post photographs of wonderful Off the Grid Boondocking sites on the Forum. ALL not for sale. Would I want to purchase private property five, ten... 100 acres and stay part or full time. NOT US.

The Forest Service have private properties within the Forest. Be aware if THEY plow and maintain roads... or YOU?

The Plains Indians figured it out. Study how they handled Boondocking. They were use to it. The majority of Airstream Owners cannot handle a week of rain and mud with a view of the Mountains, 25 miles north of DuBois, Wyoming.

Then consider the eight feet of snow and below zero Winters. Seasons change... check it out in January and then decide.

I earned my greying hair. You will, as well.

[Ray Eklund]

A vacant small parcel Real Estate Agent could sell a lot of dirt, brush and trees to those wanting a place to park their tent, RV or Trailer.

- The closer to a lake or river... multiply the price in 10x's.

- The closer to a lake or river... the lots get smaller and you may already too late to be near the water... but at least can see some water... if the neighbor cuts down his forest. ...and no trespassing signs on every other tree for fishing access?

- The more dense the woods in a parcel. It is cheap. Removing trees and brush, multiply the price in the 10x's.

- Leaning Aspen Trees... over five feet to 90 feet tall. Too much snow in the winter. Too much ground water the rest of the year. Mosquitos will suck blood out of you and your pets. Cut down and make a log cabin, as Aspen is lousy firewood. A true Boondoggle for the Starry Eyed Crowd. If exterior cabin logs... rotting sooner than later. Interior... not too bad.

- Pine Trees, Junipers and other Pines... need pruning, clearing out dead and damaged trees. If you are physically unable to do it your self or do not have a Stihl 27 inch chainsaw and gallons of gasoline... multiply the cost in 10x's.

- If you cannot use the firewood, hauling the limbs and brush are not cheap. You can sell the firewood by the cord... $85 to $150... but your neighbors ALSO have stacks of rotting firewood when living in the FOREST.

- If you have scenery, the lots are smaller. If you have no scenery, the lots are larger. If your lot has no trees, no grass, no rocks... just dirt... hauling in gravel after grading your road in and out of the site costs... a lot.

- It is best to buy from someone who already is losing a bundle doing the above, but then... WHY?

- To take an Airstream over 25 feet into a small lot and want to turn it around... it will take a lot more 'dirt' to clean out. Unless you are an experienced Off the Grid Boondocker... you haven't a clue... yet.

- Is the lot Level? If not, where does water from rain and snow melt go to?

- Do you know the difference between Shale, Limestone, Granite, Sand or Gypsum? You better if you expect to find a nice gravel driveway in the future. Or a jack hammer and some explosives if not.

- Do you have advice from a Land Man? Do you own the surface and nothing below it as it is owned by a mining company, or oil company? Are there liens on the property. Caustic materials dumped there years ago? Septic backup from neighbors? Ohhhhh Weeee aren't we having some fun?

- Worried about Radon in the Rocky Mountains? Or you do not care? OK? You will not like to hear the 'Rest of This Story' either.

- I wish there was a Boondocking Fairy out there to help anyone who has no clue what they are looking at or think they are looking at. Buy someone else's already finished plot of land.

- We 'pencil out the numbers' at have discovered that where there is Private Property for sale in the Rocky Mountains... you had better bring the Trailer, park it there for a few days or a week... and walk it. Where are the boundary posts? You had better check that out... for sure. A Survey Paper is good to check out.

- We looked at a property in Colorado. Beautiful views of the 14ers. Nice home, needed some landscaping improvements, but that is easy. When asked about 'IS the Septic System on YOUR property or the Neighbors?" No response on the telephone. We found the property markers, walked them out and the Septic System was NOT on their lot. We called, left a message, we were no longer interested. (If he had an easement to show... different story. He offered nothing.)

The owner called within sixty seconds after that call. Why? He still did not know where his Septic System was located. (WE DID.) He was a Real Estate Attorney for a Ski Area in the area. He would not say. Of course not. It was not on his property.

YOU had better be careful. Ask lots of questions. Pencil everything out like a Rancher would on any land deal. "There is always someone willing or able to be swindled or deceived."

"There's a Sucker born every minute".

I have no clue as to the experience of some making comments about 'owning a camp site' thread. If you are 75% satisfied... that is a BIG improvement. I want to be 90% satisfied.

If you are Young and Healthy and have inherited money... Go For It. It will make you much smarter... the next time.

[Ray Eklund]

If there is a need, someone comes up with a solution.

Maybe someone can provide First Hand Knowledge with this solution, needing Black and Grey Water disposal options. There seems to be all kinds, for various needs and volumes. Just a FYI. They have a hundred or so... options.

Considered an: Under Ground Plastic Septic Tank- from 200 gallons to a whopping 10,000 gallon Waste Holding Tanks. Find a local pump service and you can do your business on the cell phone, kind of thing.

I give one example of a tank that is buried. You pick the spot. Run the plumbing from your Trailer and have someone who knows what they are doing install it. Check that out first.

Plastic-Mart.com

"Plastic septic tanks are constructed from polyethylene resins as a great alternative to concrete because they last just as long, take half the effort to install, and lower your overall septic tank cost. Today's technology and engineering involved with making a plastic septic tank, has created a product built to last.

Plastic Septic Tanks are designed for both residential and commercial use. Outhouses, trailers, rv parks, homes, cottages, portable construction buildings, whatever the job, plastic septic tanks are there.

Waste Water Systems? no problem...plastic septic tanks do it all! Plastic Septic Tanks may NOT be used for storage of chemicals intended for human consumption, if needed see the below ground food grade water cistern tanks. Buy a plastic septic tank today!"

[Ray Eklund]

Way beyond our minimalist needs, another possible Solar System for those wanting to be Off the Grid with additional Solar needs.

www.solarelectricsupply.com

Solar Electric Supply, Inc.

"Drop-in, plug-in solar power wherever you need it.

Portable or fixed, off-grid or grid-connected, the MAPPS® RD Series provides reliable backup power in remote locations. The RD Series skid-mounted solar generator systems are quick to deploy and are designed for your specific load requirements.

Do you have a critical remote or grid-connected electrical load? Do you need a simple, reliable backup power source you can quickly get up and running on any site? Are you tired of paying the high cost of fueling and maintaining your remote generating facility? Then you need to check out the advantages of our portable solar systems like our self-contained Rapid Deployment RD Series solar plus storage systems.

SES MAPPS® RD Series are pre-assembled, pre-wired and tested skid-mounted portable solar generator systems that provide rapid deployment power for remote areas where conventional power is too costly or difficult to reach. The RD series can also be used to provide backup power for residential or commercial grid connected critical load applications.

SES MAPPS® RD Series systems represent the highest standards of reliability, component selection, workmanship and system performance."

[Ray Eklund]

Anyone can search the Internet and discover what you did not know existed... does.

www.watercache.com/rainwater

I liked the "Why Should I Harvest Rain" at the bottom of their promotional sales part.

In remote Montana, my Forest Service working father would have the rain water run into a large wooden barrel and we used it for washing clothes and dishes. I took the bucket to the River for... water when no rainwater was available. We must have drank either water, but I was too young to know or understand. This was common practice in NW Montana.

If you have a Car Port or something similar. I have seen just south of Magdalena, New Mexico someone installed a large conical collection cone that would collect rainwater into a tank for his cattle. It is about one mile south of town.

It would be a lot less expensive than drilling a well. Even a shallow well, unless you install a manual pump. Exercise is good for... you. Or have the pump use Solar battery storage to maintain a pressure in the system.

Use your imagination. This has its disadvantages like dust, bird poop and insects falling into the collection unit... but for non potable uses... might fit the need.

If you have a River or Lake to draw upon... filtering systems work as well and then into a storage tank.

Take some large system idea and then make up your own. Your imagination is your only limitation. Start here and then begin to look around.

[Ray Eklund]

Yes... I was busy today to discover the great variety of what is available to those interested in being self sufficient. Although I believe Solar is better... maybe you are sitting on Real Estate with lots of Wind and Solar options.

Wyoming makes them BIG. You just need a little.

This is just one... Search: Wind Power for Remote Power

www.bergey.com

"For very small loads, up to ~ 50 watts continuous, an all-solar system will usually be the best configuration.

For continuous loads from 50 – 300 watts, a hybrid system with wind, solar, and a 3 – 10 day battery bank can power a site without need for a back-up generator. Using both wind and solar will reduce the battery bank size and the total cost compared to solar-only or wind-only systems.

For larger loads, a hybrid system with a back-up generator will generally be more cost-effective. As the load size increases the relative size of the solar array shrinks due to the higher cost of solar, compared to wind.

Wind turbines should not be installed at the edge of a cliff or very steep hills because the turbulence during storms will be too high."

[Ray Eklund]

A good portion of the World's Population exist in remote locations. Cell phone service may not be available. I remember in the Wyoming Oil Patch the 'big money' had this large system in back of the SUV. The horn would honk and he would answer with this large walkie talky looking thing. Anything better than that? Of course. This was in 1970. It was 'magic' then. Today... four ounces with video.

Satellite systems can be expensive, but available today.

Start with www.engineerlive.com

Does anyone have any experience in cell service in REMOTE AREAS in the USA and Candada?

How did YOU work it out? Often our TWO cell phones have NO Service in small towns in the Rocky Mountains. Sometimes we do and the next time... zip.

"Nothingness. As far as the eye can see. For the staff working in the oil gas and mining industries, dealing with environmental extremes is par for the course; storm-battered oil rigs and sun-blistered deserts in some of the world's most remote locations are the places of work they sign up to.
In these remote energy outposts, staff depend upon having the right technology and infrastructure in place to be able to do their job, and to provide them with the safety mechanisms and support they need. Central to this is effective communications - it's the linchpin that unites field engineers with an unseen operations centre far over the horizon.
So what factors do you need to consider when looking at when deploying a communications system, and how can you ensure it will stand up to the demands placed on it?"

[rmkrum]

My answer is my Ham Radio license, I’m KE4GNK/AE.

The Airstream is equipped with built in HF (High frequency) SSB single side band radio equipment. With only 100 watts of power and a portable antenna, I can easily talk around to the other side of the planet powered only by the solar panels and batteries already installed on the Airstream.

The problem with cell phones is that you need a lot of very complex, expensive and touchy hardware and fixed location infrastructure on the back end to make that 4 ounce computer in your pocket communicate. HF radio needs only independent hardware and power, no infrastructure whatsoever is required for long haul communications.

I can also show you a complete HF radio system in a waterproof pelican case that will fit in the overhead bin on an airplane as well. It does both voice and digital communications and all it needs is either 120 volt AC power or 12 volt DC power to get it on the air.

We hams don’t need no stinking infrastructure...or the phone companies. My younger brother made a nice living setting up communications systems in remote jungles.