West Off the Grid Airstream Lengths: Optimum to Risky

[Ray Eklund]

I posted this onto another Thread, but the idea could be of some value to an adventurous Airstreamer, wanting to experience some Off the Grid camping. Are there any opinions that I missed, as I have only towed OtG a 23 and 25 foot Airstream? These ideas do not apply to Other Brands with higher clearances. Just low clearance trailers... as we Airstream owners are well aware. I used continuous footage from 16 to 34 foot for convenience as older models are not as standard in lengths. Considering OUR OtG camping a longer trailer carries more water
******

There are some questions as to the suitability of various lengths of trailers on the 2016 Wyoming Adventure. While tossing in my sleep... I thought it all out without any diversions of my attention, other than WHY? can't I just sleep with or without diversions.

Off the Grid Airstream Lengths: (Note- Airstreams...ONLY)

16 to 20 feet: Optimum Off the Grid travel with fewer resources "within" trailer
21 to 25 feet: Favorable Off the Grid travel and for longer periods of time
26 to 28 feet: Less than Favorable Off the Grid travel, but for longer periods of time
29 to 34 feet: Risky Off the Grid travel and the maximum period of time

Even though I am considering at the present time the Length of a Trailer in FEET... your real concern is with your clearance in... INCHES.

The 16 to 20 foot Airstreams can easily extend their period of time Off the Grid, by merely having fresh water and solar/generator for battery recharge within their tow vehicle. This IS a big plus for these trailers having a pickup truck for towing.

The 21 to 25 foot Airstreams risk dragging their bumpers on roads crossing washes and dry or running water creek beds. It is the extra length beyond the axles that is always most at risk for dragging. Once your bumper is dragging, chances diminish to back up out of this dilemma. One will have to use leveling blocks to elevate the rear bumper to back OUT of the difficulty.

Any 26 to 28 foot Airstream can risk not only dragging the rear bumper, but ALSO the hitch and spare tire... AT the same time. Extra caution must be considered when traveling alone in an area Off the Grid with the possibility of crossing a dry wash or gravel bottomed creek bed.

Most with a 29 to 34 foot Airstream would have to be very careful. Sharp turns become nearly impossible to "easily" maneuver and I sweat now with the idea finding the space needed to turn around. Each additional foot of length brings in new caveats.

Remember: I have only traveled in a 23 and a 25 foot Airstream to make these comments. I fly fish better in my sleep as well, so let that be a warning to you.

The longer the Airstream, you must mitigate the possibility of dragging the rear bumper... FIRST. Remember, coming back the same way you change the angles once again and must mitigate the possibilities.

At first you might believe that it is impossible to go anywhere off the asphalt with a longer trailer. Some Off the Grid roads are totally harmless for 100 miles. It is that ONE dry creek bed crossing at mile marker 99 that can block you from going the last mile. Your fuel is down below a safe return from where you entered... and you have come to a situation only a few of us have encountered. Myself included. This is why for new OtG towing, it is safer with one or more others traveling untested territory.

None of the routes on this 2016 Wyoming have any risk of high centering your trailer, but the 28 to 34 footers need to make adjustments in your position in the road to make curves easy, which a 16 footer meanders around easily. It comes down to a "mental game" and you "mentally" map your route using what road is available as you travel, looking as far ahead as possible for oncoming traffic and potential turnouts to let opposite direction traffic to pass safely.

The majority of County and Forest Service main routes are well designed for all traffic... as Ranchers bring in 18 wheelers of cattle for grazing. But... these trailers have higher clearances compared to an Airstream and the length of "cattle hauler" is of little concern... unless finding a turn around that is convenient.

There are many other ways to make your Off the Grid camping convenient. Please incorporate those in this "short essay" concerning just lengths and clearances. There is a long list of smart ideas to be added by those experienced OtG campers. I wanted to get this conversation started and this is merely the "beginning" of staying safe and comfortable.

When... YOU are tossing in your sleep... put yourself in some awkward situation pulling your trailer and consider your options. Your dream will be much worse than reality, but it does help to expect the worse, and not experience it... while awake. Although, rolling over in your sleep CAN change the bad situation you find yourself and avoid these diversions while traveling.

[Ray Eklund]

The one Optimum Airstream with the least risk for length is the 23 Foot Airstream. It is also 6 inches narrower and 9 feet 5 inches in height for the 2006 Safari. Our 2014 25 foot that we decided was worth the risk for the additional comforts that is wider and taller. The 2015's were even taller with the new venting systems within!

What would make the 23 foot Airstream... better, would be using the same axles as the 25 footer and 15 inch D Rated tires. The double axle is a big plus for weight distribution per tire on irregular roads, yet the current 14 inch tires are a poor excuse to save money at the manufacturer. The current 14 inch C Rated Goodyear Marathons are not worthy, in my opinion, for such a beautiful trailer. The first tire problem... replace these 14 inch Marathons at the nearest possible Costco or reliable tire dealer.

After eight years towing our 23 footer... it was able to resist cross winds, head winds and not drag the tow vehicle's ability to tow up any steep grade or require braking excess down grade. A wonderful trailer that Jackson Center refuses to OVER engineer the wheels and axle arrangement. By swapping out the five wheels to 15 inch D Rated tires and 15 inch five lug nut pattern wheels... The axles limit your tire size to a maximum 15 inch with the five lug nuts with plenty of clearance under the skirting.

The 23 foot with the rear bed is a "challenge", but a trade off for the well designed interior.

Our 25 foot International just seems to be "bloated" in comparison for size. But that is the cost of more convenience and capability of fresh water hauling.

Although we now own a 25 footer and will not replace it with a longer Airstream... the 23 footer is the best compromise for an Airstream not surpassed by any shorter or longer Airstreams now in production.

[BoldAdventure]

Many a wash we have crossed. One simply needs to know about approach and departure, how to maneuver, and when one should disconnect anti-sway/wd.

I'll be heading to another spot here in the Mojave next week that I scouted today that has two such spots that are going to require angled approach.

[kscherzi]

Have you considered looking at some way to jack up the trailer suspension to make it more off road capable?

[Ray Eklund]

Another idea for understanding the limitations of longer Airstreams came to mind this morning.

Take a 2" x 4" piece of lumber. Cut the lumber into 16 inch, 20 inch, 23 inch, 25 inch to 34 inch sections. Subtract 30 to 50 years from your current age and play with these simulated Airstream trailers in the sand pit.

Once you can visualize the drastic differences that trailer lengths present... it is easier to understand what BoldAdventure means by "scouting" from a Base Camp. An experienced Off the Grid traveler cannot give YOU experience by telling you how they manage to travel safely. It is experience and advice ARE the condiments added to your cheeseburger.

I have never used our sway bar in the toughest cross winds of Wyoming. Our 23 and 25 footer had minimal effect from cross winds and 18 wheeler "wind braking". A wonderful advantage of towing a low profile Airstream.

Some might have some answer to kscherzi's idea. I would probably just purchase an Arctic Fox and save myself the trouble of "re-adapting" my current trailer.

I acknowledge to everyone that an Airstream is probably not the most appropriate Off the Grid traveling trailer. Even though that is the case... it is possible with tow driver's ability. We have been to places that few would be comfortable to travel. It is not any worse than driving rush hour in City traffic or flying an airplane. After flying a helicopter, my driving skills were much improved as I was aware that every direction was important... not just looking forward.

You must keep track of your place in "space". Up, Down, Left, Right, Ahead and Behind. If you cover your behind... your ahead will follow. If you understand what I mean.

[wcrockett]

I agree with Ray. I have a 27' AS and where I go depends on more than the length of the trailer. If in doubt I get out and walk the road or unhitch from the trailer and drive it. I look to make sure there is a place to turn around, that the road is passable with my AS and for a good place to camp if needed.

[fth]

Not that I ever plan to do any of what you're talking about but perhaps an axel lift kit would help. http://www.dexteraxle.com/inc/sdetail/45177/45180

[Len n Jeanne]

Ray, we love camping in the back of beyond, but are reluctant to beat up our AS on rough roads. So we tend to sacrifice on the wild factor, and camp in something like a park or an out-of-the-way BLM campground, unhitch, and then have daytime adventures from there.

As you know, crossing a wash can be tricky if you end up on the far side and then it rains. We were in the Escalante area of southern Utah in October, and checked out the BLM Calf Creek CG. This one is actually unsuited for trailers (no turn around) and then some of the sites are on the other side of the creek, requiring a ford. No Problem during typical low-flow, but we were there during a rainy spell, and the creek was up considerably, stranding campers on the other side without a really high clearance vehicle. The dirt road to Bullfrog Marina washed out, and when we left it was under repair and no one knew whether there might be stranded campers below the washout or not.

Having said that, we do take some chances, typically walking ahead to check the road. But our first AS salesman recommended taking along a bicycle for dirt road reconnaissance. Probably a better idea.

We feel that smaller is better. The Utahns seem to love their monster 5th wheels, and one can usually find dispersed sites on public land in Utah big enough for an extended family reunion of a dozen 5th wheels. On the other hand, some of those small funky BLM campgrounds have maybe a couple of sites for bigger rigs, but most of them were designed back-when for smaller trailers & tent camping. With the Bambi, we have a lot of campsite options. We just do our best to conserve fresh & waste water, & the batteries. We bring a generator and jerry cans of water & sometimes gas.

On our October trip, we had a great time camping in the North San Rafael Swell (the part north of I-70 between Green River and Salina.) Not at all crowded, and we enjoyed our dispersed campsite a lot. (Buckhorn Draw, off the graded road.)

[KJRitchie]

Getting into and out of gas stations is enough to scare me dragging the rear let alone OtG. Even at developed campsites I have to watch the back end doesn't hit anything when raising the tongue to unhitch or level. I make sure my rear door step is retracted. My very first outing I backed up too close to a concrete bumper and I had to raise the front end a lot to level. My step was down and it started to get wedged between the trailer and concrete bumper when I raised the tongue to level. Luckily I caught it in time so no damage done to the step. First gotch ya experienced.

I haven't tried any OtG yet. I want to but would probably scout an area out solo with my tow vehicle. I'd probably switch to 16" rims on my 25fb before venturing and carry a trailer spare.

Kelvin

[D Greene]

I've really enjoyed this thread, as I have all of Mr. Eklund's posts. My wife and I enjoy this type of boondock camping and exploring. It was more worry free when we had our slide in, pop up truck camper and we could go about anywhere with the 4x4 option. I have read some of the travel logs by a couple on the forum who pull their trailer with a camper equipped truck. This seems like a good rig. Set up the trailer at a easy access campground and then do overnight exploration as desired. Of course then you lose the truck bed capacity. All the more reason we love our 16 footer, although I am curious about ways to increase ground clearance.

[Ray Eklund]

Good News and some Bad News.

Walking or biking an unpaved road is the Good News.

The Bad News. Once you begin to pull your "aluminum gem" on this same road... it is no longer as nice as you thought. Been there, done that and you will discover that some day, yourself!

We all hate to put scratches or gravel dings on our Airstreams. I am not different and probably a bit more critical. The gravel guards on the left and right side and your first line of defense for your aluminum skin. The plastic window protection is your first line of defense for your windows.

For our 25 footer I have a "spare set" of gravel guards. These work very well. Some of the gravel that catches the TOP of your trailer, around the Airstream logo are most likely gravel dings tossed up from passing traffic and following traffic.

No matter the length of your Airstream, you can only use what equipment to avoid dings and watching brush and tree branches just waiting to blemish your perfect aluminum skin. Once you have had your... first ding, first light brush mark... the second or third are not as distressing. After forty years... nobody will notice, nor care.

Lucky for those with longer trailers. They are easier to back up a quarter of a mile!

Practice backing up with your riding lawn mower with the short trailer in tow. IF you can back this up for 100 feet... you can teach the rest of us how to back up a 16 to 28 foot Airstream!

Remember. Your Airstream is intended to be used and well used at that. They are built to handle OtG travel without structurally failures. Maybe a few screw backing out and adjusting of hinges are prone to all, you do the standard "upgrades" and get outside and enjoy your magnificent hotel with a $1,000,000 view!

If you are in Kansas, looking for that $999,999 view... get off I-70 in western Kansas and discover that the State is not FLAT, but has topography and rock outcrops. There are some areas in the Hays/Wakeeney, Kansas area, to the south, that are worth taking a look. The Cretaceous yellow Niobrara Chalk Beds have fossil reptiles and exposures to climb around for shark teeth, as well.

[Bob662]

I told the Airstream folks recently if they'd figure a way to put twin beds in a 23' trailer, it could easily become a top selling model...or put in a wider double bed. Those 48 inch beds, well, you'd better be both good pals and sound sleepers.

Sorry for this diversion -- now back to your regular programming.

[Ray Eklund]

Bob... a great diversion. If they could fit Twin Beds you would have to give up something you would not want to in the 23 footer. In my case, it would be my wife.

I had given the irregular bed consideration myself and the interior is well fitted for what was left for a bed. You still have the pull out table in front and use "memory foam" for the bed cushions. That is the only true option I could imagine possible. Someone who has made a bed change might want to come forward for the 21 to 23 footers. The factory supplied mattress is not worth the springs it is built.

The 23 foot bed was one of the motivating factors for us moving into a 25 foot. The first was the larger refrigerator. Then 15 inch wheels and D rated tire options. Obviously good for the Airstream sales of 25 footers from those stepping out of a 16 to 23 foot.

Once we replaced the 23 foot malformed curved mattress with a self cut to fit "memory foam" mattress, it improved the comfort level dramatically.

I consider the 23 foot Airstream a perfect fit for size and comfort for regular OtG users. My biggest gripe were the 14 inch C Rate tires. My wife's biggest need was the refrigerator size differences. My personal opinion for OtG camping is the 23 OR 25 foot Airstream or any other similar sized other brand of trailer with better clearances as standard axles and 15 inch tires. Our second choice for a trailer... Arctic Fox 25 foot, if the quality has been maintained.

[Thalweg]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Bob... a great diversion. If they could fit Twin Beds you would have to give up something you would not want to in the 23 footer. In my case, it would be my wife.

We've got twin beds, and frequently find the lack of an auxiliary heating unit to be a big disadvantage. A couple of weeks ago, we were out when it got down to the low 30's. The dog did her best to help warm one of us at a time, but she's a bed hog, and often times smells funny, so I'd like to have a double bed, or maybe another dog.

[djarrett]

Ray, You are located in Colorado. You have places to get "remote" but on the East Coast, there just aren't many places you can get "away" anymore. I recently sold my Conqueror Commander and well "built" Land Rover LR3 for a 2015 F250 (which I have built) and a 2015 25' Eddie Bauer due to the "outdoor" favorable interior, and the additional 2 inches in lift and the larger wheels and tires.

We found that with the Conqueror (UEV 490) Commander, we could go anywhere our built truck could go, but there were only two times that we were able to find a place remote enough that we wouldn't have been able to pull the trailer to. Every other place we camped with that extreme trailer, we could have done in the AirStream. At least with the AS, we have air, heat, indoor facilities, indoor cooking, and comfortable beds!

I realize you guys have much more remote access out West, so I guess my point is ... at least with the EB, you are starting with a trailer that is a little more "extreme" than the standard AS.

Here was our past rig:



Current Rig:

[Ray Eklund]

Nashrover is one of thousands of Airstream trailer owners East of the Rockies, with a lack of places to set camp and not pay for a Private or a State provided camp site. It is the dilemma for those East of the "Western States". Not that it is negative, but I am a product of the open country and National Forests to roam at will.

Living in Missouri I did not need a trailer since there were no places I wanted to pay to camp. I had to jump private property barbed wire fences to hunt Indian Artifacts in the Spring and Fall plow seasons. When soil conservation required just scratching the surface of the fields after harvest, there was no longer a reason to drive the back roads of central Missouri and my eyes were set... Go West Middle Aged Man.

Europeans in their rental RV's are absolutely "surprised" with the wide open spaces found in the Rocky Mountain "region". Some appear a bit shaken from the experience of loneliness and shear magnitude of wild geography. Most find comfort at a RV Park, which is the norm for European camping. My Dutch relatives take their mini car, pulling a mini trailer to Greece to find some change of scenery at a mini park. When they visited Missouri, they thought they were in Siberia and staying in Independence, Missouri was a remote settlement.

Not all of the Rockies are a help yourself to a camping spot. Colorado with its early mining has deeded properties everywhere and well posted to Keep Out. Western South Dakota, as well within the Black Hills. The western third of Montana has most of the "public lands" within that State. Finding a "flat spot" in Idaho is tough when looking for any OtG camp sites. Arizona has large Indian Reservations, leaving less "public lands" to explore, than you would have expected. I could write a chapter just on the differences just within one State of how the "public lands" are distributed.

This leaves: Wyoming. Utah. New Mexico. Nevada.

Even Wyoming is limited with much of the Cattle Country and east of the Rocky Mountains being deeded. Maybe some National Grasslands scattered about, but for the most part, Wyoming's OtG begins, where the mountains rise above the lower elevation prairies.

Utah with the multitude of National and State Parks takes up a large part of the State. Between the Parks are "public lands" and you can seek them out and enjoy the lack of tourists with the scenery all to yourselves. Early Mormon settlements occupied the watered lands for crops and grazing in the 19th century.

New Mexico. Again, where there was flat ground with water... deeded, so you must find yourself at higher elevations where Ranchers lease the grazing rights during the Summers and remove their cattle before the snow and cold closes these options down.

This leaves, Nevada. Although wide open spaces of public lands, yet lacking roads to access much of these potential OtG campsites seen in the distance. Mining towns that have remained since the 1860's and surrounded by miles of desolate deserts and cool mountains with access for OtG campsites still survive, many barely. Most, hunter's camps during the Fall left for travelers like ourselves in the warm months.

I am so use to being able to look fifty, a hundred miles from my campsite. The idea of traveling into the thick forests of the USA I find as uncomfortable, as the open remote high country of the Rockies would be to you and Europeans.

Enjoy what you have to explore and find those isolated National Forests campsites and remote private campgrounds. They are remnants of what will be lost to towns and cities needing more land to expand. We in the Western USA already see changes limiting was is available for access to remote campsites. I regret that in ten years, access roads will fall into such disrepair and only 4x4 and tent camps are left for hunting seasons. I already see this occurring in my travels, roads lacking repair unless necessary for isolated ranches within National Forests.

Time changes your expectations, and usually not to the better. You and your trailer still can find room to explore with the use of maps and internet sites as the Airstream Forum. It is unusual that anyone will divulge these hidden gems to anyone but their next of kin... even if anyone is told. Be it your back yard, a lake side rental or an obscure OtG camp... do it now. Tomorrow, even these places will change with time and you are left with fewer places to go and must get in line and follow those who also waited too long to explore and find themselves making reservations in advance.

Already Off the Grid camping is at a RV Park with hookups. Today a National Forest dry camp with a water pump is the closest to OtG even we will find out West. Support them with your visits when having to chose between a RV Park or Forest Service campground. When I find myself camped with 100's of trailers to watch a balloon festival in Albuquerque, NM to escape the crowds... my trailer will be put up for sale and i will call it quits.

That is what televisions are for. Not my trailer.

[Ray Eklund]

Many in our new neighborhood in southern Nevada have a garage for a RV, trailer or a boat.

Last week one neighbor was having several large sections of his concrete driveway to his RV garage jack hammered out. He has a boat the size of my trailer, if not longer. A boat on wheels. The arc of the grade was being lowered about 12 inches.

His tow vehicle was "jacked up" with oversized wheels and lifted leaf springs. This "improvement" of his tow vehicle created angles that caused his hitch to drag and boat trailer when driving off the street and up his driveway grade. Of course, it was the fault of the concrete contractor... not his.

So add to my observations: If you are going to "upgrade your suspension to Baja Desert Racing" specifications... maybe consider how your trailer might become a towing liability.

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Many in our new neighborhood in southern Nevada have a garage for a RV, trailer or a boat.

Last week one neighbor was having several large sections of his concrete driveway to his RV garage jack hammered out. He has a boat the size of my trailer, if not longer. A boat on wheels. The arc of the grade was being lowered about 12 inches.

His tow vehicle was "jacked up" with oversized wheels and lifted leaf springs. This "improvement" of his tow vehicle created angles that caused his hitch to drag and boat trailer when driving off the street and up his driveway grade. Of course, it was the fault of the concrete contractor... not his.

So add to my observations: If you are going to "upgrade your suspension to Baja Desert Racing" specifications... maybe consider how your trailer might become a towing liability.

A lot of people who lift their trucks don't really off-road and have never heard of concepts like approach and departure angle.

So you see them with 4 and 6 inch lifts and huge tires. When about 80% of off roading can be accomplished with much less. Unless you are getting into serious rock crawling, which is another subject all together. And I don't think a lot of them understand how parts work with other parts. It's usually about looks over function.

Just a 2 inch lift and level and plus sized tires tackle almost everything we throw at the truck, and the impact to towing stability is minimal. I sit about as high as a 4wd 2500 or F250. But I have higher ground clearance because of the smaller frame rails on the 1500. I'm sort of hurting my break over with the side steps, but wife won't let me get rid of them.

[mandolindave]

You are often dirt road traveling. I heard that in around 1980, there were still more dirt roads in this country, than there were paved roads ( could be BS )

Getting to many of my favorite campsites, was iffy for just a car. But most of the campsites were very flat. Big patches of loose sand was a major concern. We were advised to NOT stop or slow down on sandy spots. Getting towed out was expensive when you are hours away from a gas station. Jarring washboard and pot holes were also a concern

[perryg114]

You could give up on a trailer and get a slide in camper for a pickup. Moostags has a slide in camper and also pulls an Airstream behind that. When the road gets rough you can go just about anywhere with a 4x4 truck and a slide in camper. Use the trailer as a basecamp.

Perry