West Macho Trailer: Upgrading to an Airstream Off Road Trailer

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Longboard6

Ray, You must be eavesdropping on me and DW. I'll be following closely.

*****
Not if you are still using 14" Marathons. New they have very little tread to wear. Tow Max and Maxxis did well for our travels. They had more rubber on the road.

There were a five lug 15" wheel that fit an Airstream five lug drum. I am sure Sendel has them, as well. Great trailer, lousy 14 inch option for tires. One BIG reason why I went to the 25 foot and then went to 16" tires. Sold the five 15" wheels and tires for $400 for someone needing nicer wheels on a flat bed.

The 23 footer is the ultimate Off the Grid... with some modifications and a carton of screws, piano hinges for ALL cabinets and protect the fresh water drain with bent stainless steel so it does not get snapped off by a loose stone. Maybe this has been taken care of from our visit to Jackson Center in 2008. They replaced the fresh water plastic drain and added stainless steel all around for protection...

[lindaebrewer]

Attention may be given to interior colors & fabrics BUT not much. Brown, beige, off-white, black. Whatever happened to Midcentury colors? Well, we now have turquoise! However, agree structural integrity is much, much more important.

[dcasr]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Our microwave is being pulled out before we move the Airstream.

_____________
Ray we still do some boon docking in our 1990 Excella and we love our microwave. The Sharp microwave/convection oven that came with the AS when we bought it in 2009 wasn't original, and has just died and we have replaced it with an updated Sharp. We take our 30 amp generator with us when we are going to be off grid, and once every day or two we recharge the battery, momma fixes something either as microwave or convection for supper and all is good. We used to live in Montana, Wyoming and South Dakota and enjoyed off grid in the National Forests and Parks. Used to take a 22' SOB up to hunting camp in the snow as well as on dirt roads in summer. Don't think I'd take my 29' AS over those same sketchy dirt roads, but a shorter AS I might if it was set up right.
+dcasr

[Ray Eklund]

Dcasr... Nancy uses the microwave space to store paper goods.

With the extra weight out, I can toss something else into the trailer. In ten years I cannot recall when we used the microwave. Even at an RV Park. I admit we used the television(s), but never the microwave.

The 27 to 29 foot trailers did well on the Wyoming Adventure. No incidents due to length. Two women driving tow vehicles and long trailers in the 27 to 29 feet. With experience anything can be managed.

Enjoy the lack of blizzards in Georgia. We already have snow near the Front Range in Colorado and we are getting prepared to head off to the Mohave Desert... SOON.

[Ray Eklund]

Today, under the bathroom sink is an open area between the cabinet back and the interior aluminum skin. The sink plumbing goes through it and the hot & cold water lines feed to the faucet.

The contents were dusty from the last two weeks of forest service roads in Wyoming. For a quick fix, I used duct tape to seal this approximately 14" by 12" opening. This filled most of this open area.

The thin panel that serves as the back of the cabinet has a wood block on the upper left side and one on the upper right side. This is to secure the back to the cabinet.

The block on the left side was screwed securely to the bottom of the counter. The block to the right had holes drilled to screw to the bottom of the counter, but were missing. There never were any and it is very difficult even to manage a way to put a couple of wood screws to secure the opposite side.

If you put some pressure on the right side, top edge of this panel... you will know immediately if yours has been attached with screws, or not.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

One last comment and if there is no interest, why should I care?

OK... Maybe the Oliver or the Casita has potential. I am still trying to get an Oliver owner in the Denver area to permit me to examine the construction... with no success, yet. Even Oliver itself is reluctant to send any information concerning interiors and exterior construction. The web site is closed to NON Oliver participation and questioning.

Ray, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, the Oliver forum has people on it asking questions all the time who are trying to decide if they will purchase one, you are free to browse the forum and as with any forum you would just need to register to post.

Had I known you were looking to inspect one, I'd have been happy to spend the time with you when I was out there earlier this summer. I know there is an owner in Utah that is happy to show theirs.

If you have specific (or general) questions, please just ask I'm happy to help out and provide any answers I can. If you'd like photos of how any thing is configured I'm happy to help out there too.

There are quite a few of us that lurk around on here to keep abreast of anything we may need to know that crosses over and with how much information and help everyone provides here it's a great learning tool. (That and the fact that there's still only about 150 total Oliver's on the road, the forum activity has some catching up to do)

I will say one of the good aspects to Oliver is they are always taking recommendations and improving the build of the trailer based on input from the current users on the forum. People brought up how noisy the Mach 8 AC was, they checked tested and now run the Penguin. Some started asking about Dexter EZFlex suspension, note it's an option they provide. Recently a few members started wondering about the Nature's Head toilet, it's now an option they include in the build.

[Hittenstiehl]

Thx Randy for chiming in I was going to add the same information.

We are members of the Oliver forum and they frequently talk improvements and they listen at the factory. Being a smaller family style business they still participate on the forum. They have been in the fiber glass business for a long time. They ceased production during the financial downturn and we were so glad they came back.

Technomadia was a former owner and pioneered a lot of the tech talk that we often referred to here on Airforums. They used to set up at Quartzite in January and we would visit. I still have pictures but they are older ones.

[BoldAdventure]

I already built mine, considering downsizing to a 23D and moving a lot of my gear to it for the ULTIMATE boondocking Airstream setup.

[djarrett]

Ray -

I understand where you are coming from.

I had the first Conqueror Commander (UEV490) in the US.



It was robust - I had an entire wheel come off while traveling 60 MPH (passed us) and the trailer rode a good half mile or more on the wheel hub. No body damage at all. We had the wheel studs re-threaded and on the way we went.

That said there were several things that facilitated our move to the airstream -
1) We are in the south and the access to places to off the beaten path are so very limited. Of the places we have camped in the Conqueror, only two would have not been possible in the airstream.
2) While it was very well built for off-road, it was extremely limited in amenities - No air conditioning, no heat, an immense amount of set up. No screen doors.
3) It leaked around all the weather seals.
4) It was starting to show age after only 4 years (powder coat finish was chalking, areas were starting to rust.
I'll add to this that I am about as OCD as they come, and I was constantly cleaning, maintaining and restoring wear.
My point - They aren't all that and a rubber biscuit. Off road capable? TOTALLY! An Airstream? Not even close.

We own the Eddie Bauer Edition as our answer to the outdoor-to-indoor experience. We didn't buy it so we can schlep a kayak in and out of the interior of the trailer.

That said, we had some pretty rough damage (fixed by the great folks at Jackson Center) from a truck throwing a turn-buckle handle. I worry about scratches, etc.

I've given much thought to beefing up the off road prowess of the AS.

A diamond plate bottom stone plate instead of aluminum (talking under-belly here). Diamond plate stone guards/LP tank guards. That sort of thing ...

As for the Oliver - I have been in one. I felt immediately like the Oliver should have been the Airstream acquisition over the Nest. It has the same feel as an updated Argosy. That said, it was very, very nice if you like nautical. It has a very nautical feel inside, but the biggest thing for me was the fiberglass outgassing smell. I simply couldn't stay in one. But it was a great trailer.

Our set up now:

[switz]

We are very happy with our 2015 23D International Serenity after some modifications that make it very off-grid friendly. It came with factory installed street and rear awnings, convection microwave and a 1,000 watt inverter we discarded. All 120Vac outlets are now powered by the Magnum inverter. We are towing it with a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI four wheel drive diesel with a CanAm reinforced receiver.

Installed 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels and Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires with Centramatic wheel balancers #200-221, and a Dill 1506-453 TPMS
Installed Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake control head on front of empty battery box.
Installed auto adjusting drum brake upgrade and four sets of Timken bearings (#4 and #17 bearing sets and #441151 seals) Built a larger spare tire carrier, used McGard 24138 Chrome Cone Seat Wheel Locks and McGard 64010 Chrome Bulge Cone Seat Style Lug Nuts

Maxim skylight with white frosted lens installed
Two MaxxFan 7000K fans installed
Truma "AquaGo comfort" instant on propane only water heater installed with custom external door hatch skin
Installed 10" Rocky Mountain mattress with their fitted sheets
Installed all available Airstream stainless steel parts
Flooring replacement with Marmoleum Vivace (hole worn by dinette table leg in stock flooring in 2000 miles)
Brass wear plate installed under dinette table leg
WiFi Ranger, XM/Sirius and Verizon MiFi antennas installed
Voyager wireless rear camera installed with lighted power switch
Winegard Rayzar autotune TV antenna replaced crank-up TV antenna
Installed Rigid Industries LED reverse lights
Rewired all electrical outlets to Hubbell 20 amp GFI
Five 100 watt solar panels system with Magnum MSH-3012 inverter, Blue Sky 3024iL solar controller and 300 amp-hour lithium battery, Magnum ME-ARC control, Blue Sky IPN Pro remote control
New main 30 amp circuit breaker panel and new six circuit sub-panel
Power outlets added to rear storage area, both hanging closets, in furnace air return space under dinette, rear of trailer
12Vdc outlets in hall and front under dinette
Special 12Vdc power outlet behind refrigerator for Viavir 450P portable air compressor
Special blocking plate w/3 fans to cool refrigerator
Added front outside power inlet with automatic transfer switch
Custom Hickory panels for ship's clock and solar controls, converted to a Hickory dinette top and added a Hickory lift up side table by the sink, made Hickory spice rack like in Classic
Custom curtains made by a friend
Replaced all plastic cabinet catches with brass ball catches
Power on/off switch for subwoofer
Installed Dometic CU434 stove and Vitrifrigo DP150i refrigerator
Created additional storage under the bed and made storage beside the curb side wheel well

The solar system has no issues replenishing the power consumed by the freon based Dan Foss 12Vdc compressor in the refrigerator. The hybrid Magnum MSH-3012 inverter can draw the necessary additional startup power for the air conditioner when using just one 2000 watt propane converted Honda generator.

We gained over an inch of ground clearance when going from the stock 14" tires and wheels to the 15" Sendel wheels with Michelin tires.

All the electrical changes fit under the sofa and dinette seat with no loss of accessible storage space.

[slowmover]

The thread title question starts with frame flex. It's not quite a "real" frame under an AS. And not quite a monocoque structure, either.

Id think total length and weight almost exclusively over the wheels would be the requirement.

Then there is tongue strength and attachment. Rotation on the ball.

Not looking to start argument, but thinking that an old unit, redone specifically for this purpose, would be the way to go.

Coming in and out of oilfield with new equipment that wore out quickly on unpaved roads not always that bad was sobering.

[streaminwild]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

OK... Maybe the Oliver or the Casita has potential. I am still trying to get an Oliver owner in the Denver area to permit me to examine the construction... with no success, yet. Even Oliver itself is reluctant to send any information concerning interiors and exterior construction. The web site is closed to NON Oliver participation and questioning.

Ray, Going to the Casita or Oliver plant for a tour would be the best way to inspect. Casita plant is in Rice Tx. 8am to 1pm m-f. Oliver tours are in Hohenwald Tn. I hope all engineers from airstream have been at both plants with ''open minds'' for ideas.

[Bullit]

Ray, thanks for this thread. I am currently working a full Monty on a 71 Caravel with a specific intent to boondock. I will be revisiting this thread for all the good information. Currently have a welder building a deeper (stronger) frame to accommodate bigger storage tanks. Things like construction, solar, insulation, clearance, radio/internet, etc have all been concerns of mine as well. You have a great crew of forum members in your area, you should start a project and resto-mod the airstream you want.
Bull

[Bullit]

Thought I would include this offering from Uinta brewing in Salt Lake. I think they might be like minded individuals...

[Ray Eklund]

Our 25 foot 2014 International has the curved kitchen sink fixture which is much, if not the same as our 2006 23' Safari. At the bottom is an aluminum kick plate. It has about ten wood screws holding it to the cabinet.

Remove those from the left to the right side, leaving the last wood screw on the right side to keep the kick plate aligned. The ends slide between the horizontal and vertical cabinet frames. Lightly pull on the left side and it will spring out of this inset.

Find the wood screw, dead center at the bottom of the vertical wood strip that has the door ball bearing latches. It is just above the linoleum floor. Is there some black residue on the linoleum? If so, this screw is already loose and catches a lot of movement when the trailer is in motion. Remove it. The wood support frame for the plastic trash can will handle a much longer wood screw. Put a small washer on the of this wood screw (you will never notice it) and secure this lower end. It is just above the linoleum.

The lower 'wood' frame that houses the plastic trash can (would have been a nice touch to have been aluminum) is not secured to the front vertical support, so do not push down on the forward/front section. Even avoid putting any stuff on top as that front edge had no support on my trailer. I took two wood screws and by holding this thin sheet of wood up a little and screwed each in about half way. The part of the screw that sticks out... now supports the front and you can use the surface to store kitchen items, if needed.

When the aluminum kick plate is removed from the left side, let it go straight. It will naturally 'unspring' to the right of the cabinet. Remember that the right side should have ONE screw holding it to the cabinet base for alignment.

There are two white wood screws holding the lower flat base to the floor. Unscrew both of them them, and note the length. If they were loose, if you use the same hole, add a small washer to the end of your better wood screw so it does not pull through the fiber board when securing. Then add one extra wood screw on each side, of your own, for a firm tightness. I added another wood screw to the back and center, as well. I use a long nail and hammer an indent to get the wood screw started. Saves you some cursing, as well.

Then I added about eight 1/2" wood screws around the lower base that is in contact with the floor. This counter is not going to be moving while the trailer is being towed! The entire cabinet feels secure and should remain so when out Boondocking.

Possibly the theory when attaching the cabinets to themselves and the floor and walls is to keep them 'flexing' when the trailer is moving. If so, the factory is doing a fine job.

If by attaching the cabinets with additional support and better wood screws (not the soft metal white headed ones)... they are snug and secure, but maybe the factory discovered that this is not recommended.

My theory... if the cabinet is showing movement on the linoleum and the white factory screws are backing out... they tend to fall out eventually. More support with better hardware is better. Also feel the backs of some supports. Metal brackets secured by wood screws are also to be found. Snug them up if needed.

I found that to return the lower kick plate back to its original position takes an extra hand to hold it secure on the left side. I found one wood screw that was shorter than the others when removing all of them. So, maybe the person who assembles a cabinet grabs whatever is laying nearby, or... I will look closer to understand why this odd one in the group.

[Gearheart]

Flexing is what causes screws to shear off the way 3 out of 4 screws holding the back bed support to the wall did on my Argosy. The only screw that did not shear was supported by a post going down to the floor thus preventing flex at that point.My repairs will include floor supports at all locations that were previously hung to flex. The bed support rail at the wall was not even installed level with the floor. It seems that shoddy workmanship was already in place 43 years ago. I was taught to be fussy about my work even when the "no one will ever see it" card was playable. I also think that the constant thumping I got on the interstate highways with the uneven concrete slabs did more harm than the back roads that Ray took us down.

[Ray Eklund]

"I also think that the constant thumping I got on the interstate highways with the uneven concrete slabs did more harm than the back roads that Ray took us down."
Gearheart

The thumping sound were the trout you had in your sink from Grey' River.

******
Update to post #35. The lower shelf that supports the 'plastic waste basket' versus a 'durable aluminum trash receptacle' is supported by the aluminum kick plate screws. Just be careful with it when the kick plate is removed and you are securing the cabinet to the floor.

In response to Gearheart Post #36.
We, now, all understand when someone says either of us has a 'screw loose', it is common knowledge and fact. Owning a vintage or a current Airstream may have lots of loose screws to the benefit of those who need any. There is no shame having one or more loose screws, nowhere to be found. Carry a variety in the event that you or a friend needs to find their loose screw(s).

[aap]

Wow, what a wealth of information. I just came back from my "1st major outing, what a mess". Please see post with same title in On the Road forum. Ray is familiar with my story...1st travel trailer/1st trip and a bunch of damage over nothing but essentially whats been described here. I am curious what amount of time/ $ it will take to get my 2015l 23ft FB FC off road ready...I realize there are many variables, but for those who have gone before me...whats a ballpark figure on time/ $...some quick fixes I can do myself l, others not so much...just wondering if cost benefit is there or if I need something different.

Thanks,
-anthony

[Burnside Bob]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Our 25 foot 2014 International has the curved kitchen sink fixture which is much, if not the same as our 2006 23' Safari. At the bottom is an aluminum kick plate. It has about ten wood screws holding it to the cabinet.

We've the same sink cabinet, although in our 25 foot 2009 FC FB I believe it is a mirror image of yours. As our trailer is short on storage, any unused space could be converted to same.

During that rainy afternoon at Doublecabin it occurred to me that there was an unused cavity in the sink cabinet behind the magazine rack. True, the wheel well is in there, but I don't think the wheel well occupies even half the width of that area.

So there it is. A secret location for a safe, contraband, pots and pans, canned goods, or?? Maybe we should have had Q dog check it out when we had the chance?

[Ray Eklund]

Some or maybe all models have, just to the right of the cooktop, a closet. Below the closet is a vent for the furnace and air conditioning air flow.

Open the closet. (This is not a Simon Says game. Just do it.)
Below it, the smaller door opens with the vent attached. It is hinged.
Find Burnsides roll of car wash quarters. Or if empty, anything you like.