West Looking for advice

[Flathead1984]

We put a deposit down on a 2020 Flying Cloud 25' rear twin. Not final, and we never planed to buy a new one, but after looking for months, we went to compare the 23' vs 25' at our local dealer, and bang. The 25 was just perfect for us, and we plunked down a deposit to hold it. Gulp.

My daughter and grandsons live in Missoula, Montana. I retired from the Forest Service a few years back and have worked in Montana, Idaho, Alaska, New Hampshire, and Pennsylvania. I am very familiar with NW Montana - having been Forest Supervisor of the Flathead. At the time, all roads were open and you could camp any place you wanted to camp. Today, a lot of the roads are gated to protect Grizzly Bears. But I know a lot are open.

Here is my question: What service installed options should I consider before I take this off the lot? Given that we plan to spend the summers in Montana, and winters in Florida, what options are good for boon docking? Should I have the Dexter lift package installed (raises 3"), generators, what ever. I know there is so much on the site, and I have been spending a few hours each day noodling, I thought I would ask a few questions.

Ed and Kathe Brannon

[uraljohn]

Get the Dexter lift kit installed if you plan on any kind of Forest Road use. You may not have a problem without it, but if you do drag the bumper somewhere you will wish you had it.

If the trailer you purchased has factory solar you can add a panel on the roof and use a suitcase style of portable to plug in at the provided plug on the tongue. If no solar from factory there are some great Threads on doing it yourself or having it done by an experienced company.

Get yourself a decent generator. Everybody loves a Honda. We have a Champion 3500 Dual Fuel (we only use propane, no gasoline). It was far less expensive than the Honda, had way more capacity, already had an RV 30 Amp plug in (no need for an adaptor), is electric start with backup pullcord (never had to use pullcord), and it is reasonably quiet. There is no such thing as a "quiet" generator. Just some that make less noise than others. It has done a great job and we can run the A/C and other thing at the same time.

We spend the winter in Florida at LYH with full hookups. Travels in the summer are a mix of full hookup and some boon docking.

There will be a bunch of good suggestions for you I am sure.

We have a 2019 FC 25 RBT and love it. It is our second AS. We started with a 2017 International Serenity 23D. Nice trailer but the FC 25 RBT is just worlds better. You made a great first choice. Happy travels.

[Hans627]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new AS. Sounds like you already have plans to maximize the joy of traveling with it.

I don't know your timetable but I would highly recommend that you do some local camping before heading cross country. I would really be surprised if there are not a few "bugs" that may need to be dealt with and it would be much easier to handle that in FL than in MT (or on the road in between).

Also, you will need a lot of carrying capacity for such a trip and to do boon docking in MT. That means you need to have a TV cable of handling the load. What are you using?

But it sounds like wonderful trip. Especially being a veteran of the Forest Service and knowing the "back roads". Thanks for your service!

All the best!

[Bill M.]

A generator to carry in the truck. Probably not from the dealer but lithium batteries and a lithium battery capable converter. Maybe a DC to DC converter to actually charge the batteries while the TV is towing the trailer. Maybe a 12 volt fantastic portable fan. Maybe a tire pressure monitor system. Maybe a RV gps with a backup camera for hitching. Maybe Rock Tamers or equivalent. Maybe an Easy Start depending upon the size of the generator you are happy with and how the dealer feels about installing it. Maybe max air covers for the vent fans.

[Goin camping]

I'd get the solar and Honda Genny and call it a day.

We spent many years boondocking across the Mojave in a stock height 25FB. When off road we just went slow. Never had a problem.

Have fun.

[CBWELL]

Get a tire pressure monitoring system. You only have to need it once to pay for itself. Talking from experience!! I prefer 2 smaller gen sets hooked together. Much easier to move from bed of the truck.

[Wayne&Sam]

We have a 2014 35' FC Rear Twin and love it. As far as power goes, I'd suggest just go camping to find out what you need. Everyone has different needs. We can camp indefinitely with stock batteries and a 100 watt suitcase solar panel. We carry a 1000w Honda generator (converted to propane) but never use it. Your needs may well be different, but you won't know until you try it.

I also added TPMS, rearview camera (your's probably came with one), changed the Fantastic Fans to MaxxAir and LevelMate Pro.

[Gene]

One of the reasons Airstreams tow easily is they are low to the ground. A lift kit will make remote boondocking easier, but the trailer will not tow as easily. Best to wait I would think and see what boondocking is like with a stock system.

I assume this unit comes with cheap batteries. They may have been sitting on the lot for many months and been abused. Two six volt golf cart batteries will have more capacity. Solar is not always available (trees, canyons, fall—the worst place is Yosemite in November) so a generator is a back up to the back up (solar). We got along with a Honda 1,000 watt generator and hardly ever have used it. But you may be boondocking much more than we did. If you want TV, A/C or microwave while boondocking, you will need a generator running to do so or you will drain the batteries fast plus you'll probably need an inverter for those appliances. The furnace also drains batteries, sometimes faster than solar can charge them the next day, especially if it is cloudy. We had 200 w. solar and mostly we did ok, but solar is a lot cheaper now and I would aim towards more watts.

You can make improvements as you learn. Most boondocking sites used for dispersed camping I have seen are not on bad roads, but that is in Colorado mainly. You may have some special spots in your mind and the lift kit may be necessary. Now having another trailer designed for off road, it is quite high off the ground and much harder to tow. So the higher you go, the better hitch you need. That is a book in itself.

For years the 25' FB was the most popular trailer and we used to have one. Nice trailer, but weak on storage. The center hall takes up a lot of space. The advantage of a fully enclosed bedroom is ok, but the hall is where storage and living space are sacrificed.

[uraljohn]

Originally Posted by Gene

One of the reasons Airstreams tow easily is they are low to the ground. A lift kit will make remote boondocking easier, but the trailer will not tow as easily. Best to wait I would think and see what boondocking is like with a stock system.

I assume this unit comes with cheap batteries. They may have been sitting on the lot for many months and been abused. Two six volt golf cart batteries will have more capacity. Solar is not always available (trees, canyons, fall—the worst place is Yosemite in November) so a generator is a back up to the back up (solar). We got along with a Honda 1,000 watt generator and hardly ever have used it. But you may be boondocking much more than we did. If you want TV, A/C or microwave while boondocking, you will need a generator running to do so or you will drain the batteries fast plus you'll probably need an inverter for those appliances. The furnace also drains batteries, sometimes faster than solar can charge them the next day, especially if it is cloudy. We had 200 w. solar and mostly we did ok, but solar is a lot cheaper now and I would aim towards more watts.

You can make improvements as you learn. Most boondocking sites used for dispersed camping I have seen are not on bad roads, but that is in Colorado mainly. You may have some special spots in your mind and the lift kit may be necessary. Now having another trailer designed for off road, it is quite high off the ground and much harder to tow. So the higher you go, the better hitch you need. That is a book in itself.

For years the 25' FB was the most popular trailer and we used to have one. Nice trailer, but weak on storage. The center hall takes up a lot of space. The advantage of a fully enclosed bedroom is ok, but the hall is where storage and living space are sacrificed.

We have a 2019 25 FC RBT and there has been no effect on towing from installing the lift kit. The 25 FC RBT has excellent storage. The storage areas under the twin beds is very nice. The exterior storage with a large full width rear exterior compartment plus 2 side storage areas under the beds and an additional compartment forward on the street side makes for a bunch of storage.

[Gene]

Glad to hear the lift kit did not affect performance. When we used to take cross country trips, the Airstream followed us like it was attached as one vehicle. Hardly any sway, if any, and I had many experiences with high cross winds, rain and even snow.

Twin beds would increase usable storage compared to the queen bed version. Storage was adequate for us, but other trailer brands usually have more. Of course, any storage seems, after a while, to be not enough. Our problem after 60,000 miles with it was we felt cramped and another 20 sq. feet felt like we had twice as much space.

I believe someone said to take short trips at first to get used to it and find out what warranty repairs need to be done. There will be some and hopefully not more than "some". Trying to get those things done in the northern Rockies will be a lot more difficult. These things take time to get used to.

[Flathead1984]

Originally Posted by Hans627

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new AS. Sounds like you already have plans to maximize the joy of traveling with it.

I don't know your timetable but I would highly recommend that you do some local camping before heading cross country. I would really be surprised if there are not a few "bugs" that may need to be dealt with and it would be much easier to handle that in FL than in MT (or on the road in between).

Also, you will need a lot of carrying capacity for such a trip and to do boon docking in MT. That means you need to have a TV cable of handling the load. What are you using?

But it sounds like wonderful trip. Especially being a veteran of the Forest Service and knowing the "back roads". Thanks for your service!

All the best!

We are signing today. Mother’s Day.
Our TV is a VW Touareg V6. Capacity 7800 lbs. it would be better with a diesel but we found this one. This one of the more popular TV in Europe. It is the same as the Porsche Cayenne and Audi Q7. It may have a little struggle on steep grades. It is our only vehicle. We went to one vehicle. If it does not do the job, we will go Diesel.

I also need a generator that runs on propane. Thanks for the recommendation. I like the Honda’s but pricey and not sure how to convert to gas
E

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by Flathead1984

Our TV is a VW Touareg V6. Capacity 7800 lbs.

I also need a generator that runs on propane. Thanks for the recommendation. I like the Honda’s but pricey and not sure how to convert to gas

E

We originally towed ours with a Durango rated at 7200 lbs. It did just fine (and much of our towing is in Mt, WY, ID). Fully loaded for camping our 25' FC rear twin weighs 6600 lbs.

You can buy a conversion kit that's easy to install.

[jaybauman]

Originally Posted by uraljohn

We have a 2019 25 FC RBT and there has been no effect on towing from installing the lift kit.

+1 on the Lift Kit.

We have noticed zero towing impacts after installing the 3" lift on our 2019 FC30. We can get into a few more places than we could before.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Flathead1984

We are signing today. Mother’s Day.
Our TV is a VW Touareg V6. Capacity 7800 lbs. it would be better with a diesel but we found this one. This one of the more popular TV in Europe. It is the same as the Porsche Cayenne and Audi Q7. It may have a little struggle on steep grades. It is our only vehicle. We went to one vehicle. If it does not do the job, we will go Diesel.

Check the payload on your Touareg and add up weight of everything you plan to put in the car. The AS 25' has one of the heaviest tongue weights and can easily push the payload to the limits.

I towed with a Touareg V8 and a V10 diesel, both with air suspension, which towed great but had to travel light and do some creative loading to keep the hitch weight in check. Now have a diesel truck that allows me to load kayaks, bikes, generator and a whole lot more.

[Bill M.]

You can buy a Honda already converted

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by Flathead1984

<<snip>>.

Here is my question: What service installed options should I consider before I take this off the lot? Given that we plan to spend the summers in Montana, and winters in Florida, what options are good for boon docking? Should I have the Dexter lift package installed (raises 3"), generators, what ever. I know there is so much on the site, and I have been spending a few hours each day noodling, I thought I would ask a few questions.

Ed and Kathe Brannon

Service installed equipment you might consider:
Matching awnings on the road side and rear bedroom window can make it a lot cooler when parked in the summer sun.
Lift kit only if you are going off road or have a really steep driveway. (I don't need this on my 25', but considering it on my 34')
If it does not have the microwave/convection oven option already installed, you might want to add that.
If it has Fantastic fans, Fantastic UltraBreeze covers to keep rain out on warm rainy days when the fan is needed. (I found these very useful wintering in FL) This is an easy DIY, if you want later.

Other considerations:
The 25' has 30 amp standard electrical service, or 50 amp with two air conditioners. If you plan on spending summers in the southwest you might want the two AC units (I have not found 2ACs necessary, traveling the upper half of the US in the summer and spending winters in FL. I've done this the last 14 years)
If you will be riding on gravel roads, a set of hitch mounted rock deflector flaps.

later, not from Airstream:
A good quality generator, pure sine wave.
and/or
Solar upgrade with better batteries, if you find that suits your camping style. (If I were just beginning, with many years to justify the $$$$, I would go solar & 2-3 batteries for boondocking)
While wintering in FL, a good quality-very quiet-thermostat controlled-electric space heater is what we used.

[Gene]

There are also Max Air fan covers and they do the same thing as the Fantastic Fan and cost a lot less. Fantastic fan says you can drive with the fan open to keep air circulating in the trailer and it won't tear off, but a thunderstorm can cause serious wind gusts added to the speed of the vehicle, so if you don't want to worry that you will have o find a new fan cover (not the same as the fan or vent cover) on the road and you want to keep the interior less hot in the summer, get a fan cover. Hard to explain because they have similar names, but the best thing to do is Google Max Air vent or fan covers or the same with Fantastic fan ones. Fantastic Fan claims they are better, but the Max Air works for us.

It can get pretty cool at night in the Rockies, so if you have 120 v. available, an electric ceramic fan is a good addition. Good in Fla. in the winter too. We got a small Lasko heater for about $25 (make sure it has a thermostat and fan) many years ago and it works fine. Lasko makes about a million different models, so just look for a simple one with the basic amenities. The furnace uses a lot of propane, so you want to use it as little as possible. Airstreams are not well insulated, so they cool off or heat up quickly.

You will need sewer and water hoses. We have used Revolution sewer hoses for quite a while. The ends are glued on and have stayed together for years (there are ones with ends that screw on and they are close to junk). Get an extra 10 or 15' for those times when the sewer is far away. Get two 25' water hoses (drinking water ones are white). One 50' means a lot of hose coiled at your site and more chance you will be stuck with a leaker—they all leak sooner (usually) or later. A 30 amp (unless you have a 50 amp) extension cord is also good (they are quite expensive) because you never know when hookups are in strange places. Campsites are sometimes uneven and you need something to put under the wheels then—boxes of plastic units that fit together like Legos are used by many of us. Also if you get a flat, some 2x10 pieces provide a way to drive up the other wheel and lift the flat off the ground. I have three, each beveled on one end, to lift the wheel up high enough. You can get a jack too, but the scrap wood is cheap and easy to use. It is also more stable. And a small compressor and a tire repair kit is good when you go to remote places. A compressor that attaches to the battery rather than a cigarette lighter has more power and will pump up a tire in much, much less time. By now you are getting the idea that you have to get a lot of the stuff and will be spending more than you thought. There are books on how to RV and they are useful for those never having done this before. There is a steep learning curve.

Are you good with mechanical things? It helps to have lots of tools, extra screws, glue, Velcro, extra fuses. The drawer catches may fail in a year or ten years and are very expensive on the road, so look them up and order online when you get around to it. Airstream recommends Sikaflex sealer (can't remember the specific numbers) for the seams and you will need some. Some Airstreams leak a lot, some less. Never use silicone on aluminum.

You are entitled to a thorough walk through from the dealer. I believe Airstream pays them for this. Don't be afraid to ask for more time if you are confused—most everyone is. Video it if you can because you will forget a lot of what you are told. Camp near the dealer for a few days to learn the trailer and what needs immediate fixing. The dealer is supposed to go through the trailer and fix things missed at the factory. Some do it, some don't. In the end, it is up to you to make sure things work. Test everything and then test it again. Over the years there have been lots of complaints about dealers. Make sure stye set up the hitch properly. That is part of what you are paying for and many dealers do not do a good job.

[Balderston]

I have a 2016 25 Ft Flying Cloud with rear twins. I would ask to have the second heat pump installed. Also if you have XM radio ask them to install the antenna.

[Plan-B]

I had a 25’ twin. Currently have a 26U and full timing. The 25’
I had a descent solar system with 200w total. That’s really minimum
to keep systems topped of with standard batteries and not a lot
of off grid. This all depends where you are and power you need. Here
are my suggestions:

-
1- Have a dealer rip out your trailer AC power charger converter (Parallax)
they are electrical junk and battery killers. Have them order a replacement
from Progrssive Dynamics. Batteries will last twice as long. Not expensive and a must.

2- Have installed 400 watts of solar , get an outstanding solar
charge controller, a must , and invest in some ‘REAL’ deep cycle
AGM batteries , not the fake ones AS uses as stock. AGM, go Lifeline
batteries. 400w solar 200amp is pretty good. I do 300amp but you
Really need to need that or overkill. Think Lithium if you have the bucks. My current AGMs with my solar charge controller and replace the Parallax, see below, good for 7 years no problems. When these need replacing I will go Lithium.

3- If solar the best of the best place to contact for RVs is google
Up ‘AM Solar’ in Oregon. They are amazing. You can search this
forum and they probably show up a 1,000 times. They have an amazing
staff of engineers that can help fine tune your needs, kits and make
custom to fit wiring systems. They do not have to install they have complete
DIY instructions and they know Airstreams well. They will also work
with your dealer for an install too. Also, zero and I mean zero holes
will be drilled in your Airstream skin.

4- Bad shore power is your enemy and it can come in all forms
and surges are not necessarily your biggest enemy. It’s the brown
outs, low voltage that can be very common. They destroy your air conditioner
they protect you from this.

Many other things but these cover from you are not going to be
doing much boon docking to wanting to be off grid for a couple days
to weeks and plus these are my suggestions. I have not used my two Honda
2k generators in 5 years.

Wrote this on my iPhone so sure there are plenty of typos.

Good luck.

Greg

[DC Bruce]

I can’t remember the size of the propane bottles on the 25, but on our FC27, consumption of propane by the furnace was not a problem. The problem was the electricity used by the furnace blower, which can be a lot overnight if it’s cold (even if you set the thermostat at 50). So getting rid of the stock charger/converter is not a bad idea. It just did not suck the amps from the generator. The Honda 2kw generator is very nice; and there is a big difference between its loudness and the cheapies (don’t ask us how we know). A compressor that runs off 12 volt battery connection is, in my opinion, a must-have. Many punctures are not catastrophic, but result in a slow leak that can be compensated for with a compressor until you get somewhere it can be repaired properly. As a last resort, you can carry a can of fix flat, but the use of that is very discouraged. We wore out a set of the hated Goodyear Marathons with no incidents and without a TPMS. So I don’t consider it necessary. In any event, every day before starting out you should check your tire pressures on both your trailer and tow vehicle. And every time you stop, you should do a visual inspection of all your tires. Hoping not to trigger a flame fest about tow vehicles, you should check the payload rating of your proposed TV, using the sticker on the frame of the driver’s side door. Airstream’s tongue weight specification is generally on the light side, and that will be part of your vehicle’s cargo along with the weight of the people and stuff inside. In my opinion, the biggest risk from overloading your TV with a trailer is that it unloads the front axle, which can result in loss of steering control in low-traction situations like rain. Weight distribution hitches can rectify this only to some degree.
Also, using an SUV as a TV leaves no place for grubby stuff like gasoline for your generator. Check your proposed TV’s fuel capacity and figure you’ll get 10 mpg towing. Consider where you’re planning to go and how far apart gas stations are. Our truck (gasoline) has a 25-gallon fuel capacity and we get 11-13!mpg towing. We also carry a 3-gallon and a 5-gallon can of gas in the bed as a reserve and to power the generator. One time we arrived in Tonopah NV flat empty, even though we had fueled up at the last gas station. As we realized we were going to be cutting it close, we cut our speed from our usual 60 to 50 or less. Even so, it was pretty close.