How do you Boondock???

[wheel interested]

I would think the gray water issue with RVs is the sheer volume of it. An RV can carry a lot more water than a backpacker, and RVs are the majority. Dare I say backpackers tend to be conscious of their environment? Opening up a tank and having gallons rush out has a lot more impact. Are there more irresponsible rvers than backpackers?Close proximity as mentioned too has to be considered. I don't want to stand in the mud or holes my neighbor or previous camper made emptying his tank. I think with rules it's a lot easier to give a blanket NO than to have to pick and choose and monitor the results.

[Sugarfoot]

Carol, I agree. I feel that no RV should be able to dump graywater anywhere they please. And proximity to civilization should be considered. Your points are right on. I believe in low impact camping and choose to be kind to the environment. So I guess I'm looking at things from a backpacker's point of view and few RVers do. If boondocking, I would expect to produce minimal graywater because I have this preconceived notion that boodocking is like backpacking. I'm camping in the wilderness, roughing it, no one else around, and have minimal expendable resources. The only difference is my backpack is is one big silver container on wheels. I may be able to carry more fresh water, but would I use it? So if I produce no more graywater then I would backpacking, could I not treat graywater the same as I do backpacking?

That being said, I haven't had the chance to boondock yet. If I have more resources available, I may have a tendency to use more. So I guess I need to wait and see how it goes. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything that would negatively impact neighbors or the environment. I'll be taking the Blue Boy first time out.

[scottanlily]

Well ,my boondocking ideas I have are that you obviousely conserve your
resources ,water especially ,electricity and food .in the old days they did
the golpher hole thing and yet had black holding tanks on our trailers as far back as 60 like our tradewinds do (Dacia) so keeping waste off the ground even then was important .If boondocking ,you'll hopefully not be using high
amounts of water all the time and so forth .Id be shocked if someone dumped there grey tank on the ground when full ,I use the blue tote for grey water only ,and will be going up on the size as well .I do use the shower , short
duration on/off during the shower ,(hot shower is a must even boondocking )
after all these trailers were designed for just that ,gas LP stove ,oven
water heater,lamp ,battery for the Grover water pressure air pump or lights.
but you can go LP only .and of course a commode with self contained tank.
In addition to the 20 gallon water tank under the front gaucho ,I take 10
more gallons in the portable blue 5 gallon fresh water containers ,for 4 people
or less ,but we always go together lily and the kids and I which I like anyway.
We haven't gone to a dry only ,no services campground for long periods so it
works out for now .By the way Fyrzowt get you some of those 5 gallon fresh water containers next time for heavens sake .

Scott

[wheel interested]

Sugarfoot, I was speaking towards why there are so many restricted places and rules against dumping grey water. Do you get Airstream Life, maybe someone can help me out as to what issue? There was a lengthy article on disposing of gray water and even how to dispose of gray water when restricted.

We have camped in places where you can dispose of gray water and even had to let some top water off in emergency in others. We carry a gray water hose and divert a small amount to watering the plants when the ecosystem is not fragile.We had occassions that we hitched up and went for a station to refill and empty, but usually our holding tank will be adequate for our stay. If we are leaving the next day, we wait to empty and let enough water out to not have remaining water standing in the shower or sloshing about on our way out.

The blue tank is a good thing to have but it would be an unusual occurence with the time we boondock and the size of our tanks to require always carrying one.But we have done that too when necessary.

I too can't see the difference between throwing the dish pan water or wash water out and running through the plumbing, it is the same water.

[Sugarfoot]

Carol, I think we are basically on the same wavelength with this issue. I wouldn't want to camp next to folks who think nothing of dumping gray on the ground either. Restrictions make perfect sense. I have no gray tank in my TW, and would always use the Blue Boy in any campground or anywhere there are restrictions. I just started getting Airstream Life, so it must have been an earlier issue that addressed gray water. But if someone knows which issue, I would love to get my hands on a copy.

Since I don't have a gray tank, and can live like a backpacker, I need to research what is permissible and what isn't when boondocking in remote areas, private land with permission, state or federal land, etc. For instance, I understand some of the southwestern states welcome graywater in some areas. Like you say, Scott, even in 1960 Airstream owners were digging gopher holes, etc., and used the principle of letting small amounts drain at a time, kind of like field lines. I'm just not certain if this is even permissible today when in remote locations. Thus my question as to would backpacker’s rules apply. Yes, the hot shower would be nice!

[Minnie's Mate]

Just a question here. You all mention the blue tank. What size are you talking about and where do you dump it? My blue tank holds 25 gallons and we can fill that in a day at a camp ground that doesn't have sewer hook-ups. We each have to have a shower every day even if it's just a navy shower! And there is no way I can lift that into the back of my truck nor would I try...I'd be having a gray shower for sure! The only camp ground we have stayed in that didn't have sewer hook-ups had gray dump stations about every third camp site so I just towed the blue tank over and released it into the gravel filled sump. But with North Georgia's clay soil it would just flow across the surface of the ground if anybody had dumped their's before me and that had usually happened. So I kind of don't know what the big deal would have been to dumped on the ground. I'm just glad we didn't have either site next to the gray dump site.

[Sugarfoot]

Minnie's Mate, you've hit on my problem exactly. You're image of a "gray shower" isn't pretty. My Blue Boy is also 25 gallons with the four wheels and tow-on-the-hitch-ball handle, does well in a campground. Just hook it on the receiver ball and drive slowly to the dump station. Its not a lightweight empty, much less full. But if boondocking in a remote location, how could one dump when full? I would have trouble lifting 80 lbs of a full ten gallon blue tank. I suppose graywater could be transferred from the blue into smaller containers and carried out, but who has room for 25 one-gallon milk jugs when breaking camp? Maybe remote boondocking isn't as feasible for more than a night with Airstreams having no gray tanks. There must be some vintage owners that have found a good work-around for this in an extended boondocking situation.

[Fyrzowt]

By the way Fyrzowt get you some of those 5 gallon fresh water containers next time for heavens sake .

5 gallon? I carry a 30 gallon with a 12 Volt transfer pump.

[flyfshr]

No grey showers allowed!! How about putting a garden hose bib on the lower section of the blue tote? That way one wouldn't need to lift it. Set it up with a small section of hose, say 18 inches or so, maybe put a valve in the hose. Just unscrew the cap, place the hose in the hole and open the valve. Wah-lah, no lifting. I may just have to do this on mine. Talked myself into it.

Brad
Ff

[Fyrzowt]

Last month my wife and I camped for 3 days without hook-ups. 15 gallon tote, no grey tank on my '72. Short showers each day, minimize water use all possible ways. This was my first outing with this trailer and was not sure how long the tote would last. At the end of the weekend, I was about 3/4 full in the tote. It can be done, but I prefer full hook-ups!

[Minnie's Mate]

We recently camped at Falls Creek Falls in TN. Some of their sites have sewer hook-ups while the majority do not. We were fortunate that someone with a full hook-up canceled the day we arrived so we were able to get the full hook-up site. The camp ground is beautiful, but it was not laid out for 30' trailers to get into the sites easily. If you have a gray tank, or can reserve a hook-up site (two day minimum, I believe for a reservation on weekends) I highly recommend it.

[RoadKingMoe]

This is just my opinion, but I think Airstreams, at least the big ones, are not so much designed for boondocking as they are for Thursday through Sunday WBCCI rallies with 2-3 amp rally power. That translates into 16-24 amps or so at 12 volts. At 35+ gallons, they have enough grey water capacity for us for 3-4 nights, depending on use (like dumping dishwater down the toilet instead of the sink drain). At 39 gallons, they have plenty of black tank capacity for lots of bowl filling and flushing for 3-4 days. And the 54 gallon tank of fresh water is more than enough to take care of both, since we're drinking bottled water or other drinks.

I can't imagine a couple putting more than 8-10 gallons a day in the grey water tank, if taking Navy showers and conserving while washing dishes. I guess I need to define our Navy showers as up to 30 seconds wet down, with a 60 second rinse, at about a 2.5 gpm flow rate. I find a lower flow rate more effective and can allow for up to 2 minutes rinse for the same water use. I'd much rather be frugal with the showers than mess with a blue tank, even for just grey water.

From what I've been able to determine (but haven't used an amp-hour meter), our big AS has only about enough 40-50% battery capacity to cover one day's phantom loads (appliance circuit boards, refrigerator LP solenoid, radio memory, etc.), run some lights and watch a little TV (or listen to a little more radio) in the evening, AND run one Fantastic Vent all day on medium in warm weather (2.4 amps) or the furnace all day in cool weather (9.8A x 25% duty cycle). That's definitely within 2-3 amp 120VAC rally power (if everyone arrives with their batteries at least near fully charged), but from my perspective, nowhere near matches the tank capacities for boondocking. That's why I think the larger Airstreams are primarily "rally trailers."

And that's why we use a generator when boondocking, especially run in the afternoon/evening when our electrical use can be highest, and the need for 120VAC the greatest (TV, sat receiver, microwave oven, vacuum cleaner, etc). It's also a good time to recharge the camera, iPod, and notebook batteries. Daily afternoon charging, at least for us, minimizes depth of discharge as well as the need for a depth-eating inverter. After paying $400 for a pair of Group 27 Lifeline AGMs, that depth of discharge and inversely proportional battery life got a lot more important to us.

Now all this being said, we've more than once slept at anchor for 4 nights, using less than 2 gallons of water (lots of spray bottle use), 1/2 gallon of porta-potty capacity (grey water drains overboard), and less than 20 AH each day. You do what you have to do. That's as low as 40ºF with no heat one night, and as high as 90º with fans on high another. But the boat fans use 1/10th the power of a Fantastic Vent, plus if there's a breeze, the anchored boat weathervanes into it, making the fans less necessary with the front hatch open. So if we had to, we could probably stretch the Airstream capacities way beyond 4 days, except perhaps for the batteries. But I wouldn't want to.

Just another perspective...

[Fyrzowt]

[quote=RoadKingMoe]

I'd much rather be frugal with the showers than mess with a blue tank, even for just grey water.

That's fine for those of you WITH a grey tank!

[RoadKingMoe]

[QUOTE=Fyrzowt]

Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe

That's fine for those of you WITH a grey tank!

You do whatcha gotta do!

You probably don't have all those phantom loads we do either.

[Sugarfoot]

Nope, no phantom loads. But no gray tank? OK, do whatcha gotta do. I can do that!

Transfer pumps and running hoses are possibilities. I'm getting the idea from this and the graywater transfer thread that maybe its a 'don't ask, don't tell' kind of situation. When remote boondocking, running a line to gopher holes for gray may be permissible in some states but not in all. Use common sense, check the statutes, and don't hurt the environment. If you can live like a backpacker, go for it.

If I'm way off base, someone please correct me. Now, eventually I'll get my generator and go boondocking!