Furnace all night?

[Drtrash]

300 w of solar and 2 crown 6 volts never needed power, well unless i fire up nexspresso machine then gennie earns its place. Lithium has its place, not sure if it ever pays for itself, but you wont be cold

[Arctic Taco]

Originally Posted by Kjmmcc

We have a 2021 Globetrotter 27FB. 540watts of solar on the roof with Renogy 2000watt inverter, 2-170 amh Renogy batteries (340amh lithium’s) that fit like a glove in the battery box, also have a 200w Renogy suitcase. Have been waiting for the perfect time to test all of the systems. Leaving for Magnolia Beach in Port Lavaca Texas for two nights on the beach Boondocking. Expecting early morning rain one morning, otherwise sunshine.
Temps will range from highs of 60 to lows of 38. Planning to use the furnace all night starting after dinner to about 10:00am the next morning for two days Between refrigerator, freezer, furnace, lights and Television we plan to burn through the power and see how she performs.
We do have dual Honda’s if experiment starts to fail.
Think we will be ok ?

Not an expert by any means but having the Honda’s as back up is good bang for the buck/weight.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by Gearheart

I read someone quote that the solar array plus lithium batteries ran them $4K. I assume those are $US. Here in Canada that would be $5500 and 13% sales tax on that too so well over $6K. Marine deep cycle AGMs run around $200 / each and I use 2. They last me around 7 years. I will not live long enough to recover that original $6K investment. 15 replacements at 7 years each is 105 years to recover. I’m already well over halfway there so where is the advantage.

I’m just starting to research this myself, but my understanding is that LiFePo batteries have performance advantages like faster charging and being able to cycle deeper (more available Ah) than lead-acid. They might not be economically justifiable but will provide better performance. Kinda like diesel vs gas 😀

[BayouBiker]

I know currently solar does not retain resale value more than maybe 20% if that. Maybe someone knows if Lithium batteries are a reselling point and retain value, I suspect they are similar to solar. It makes sense at 20% given the payout is so poor. The Diesel retains more than 80% of its value.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

I’m just starting to research this myself, but my understanding is that LiFePo batteries have performance advantages like faster charging and being able to cycle deeper (more available Ah) than lead-acid. They might not be economically justifiable but will provide better performance. Kinda like diesel vs gas 😀

I was paranoid about running the furnace all night and running down and ruining the batteries. Switched to two 100ah BB (in the front compartment) We are in Tucumcari NM. I ran the furnace all night, running the inverter this morning to charge everything. Still showing 75% left. 51.9 Ah used. Now all I need to worry about is propane. We slept better at 60 degrees than we did at 50.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

I know currently solar does not retain resale value more than maybe 20% if that. Maybe someone knows if Lithium batteries are a reselling point and retain value, I suspect they are similar to solar. It makes sense at 20% given the payout is so poor. The Diesel retains more than 80% of its value.

Yeah. I wasn’t thinking in terms of resale; just performance. I didn't considered resale when I bought my diesel truck; only performance. After all, why would I sell a perfectly good truck that meets my requirements? 😀

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

I was paranoid about running the furnace all night and running down and ruining the batteries. Switched to two 100ah BB (in the front compartment) We are in Tucumcari NM. I ran the furnace all night, running the inverter this morning to charge everything. Still showing 75% left. 51.9 Ah used. Now all I need to worry about is propane. We slept better at 60 degrees than we did at 50.

Do you find that the LiFePo batteries charge faster? Is it noticeable?

[Goin camping]

Rather than worry about resale or initial cost. I focus on what will allow me to booncock out in the desert for the longest time possible.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

Do you find that the LiFePo batteries charge faster? Is it noticeable?

Haven’t had enough experience yet to really tell, but they were at 100% pretty quickly driving down to Winslow.

[Gene]

I think it is too early to determine if Lithium batteries have an effect on resale. Some things help sell something and some things increase the value. As said above, some are for individual needs.

We had Lifeline batteries for at least 6 years and they were fine when we sold the trailer. That was a good investment and we had better batteries to use. We had 200 w. solar and that helps too. We outfitted the trailer because we took very long trips, boondocked sometimes and wanted convenience. Spreading those costs over years and miles, they cost little and the convenience benefits were high.

The furnace—the original subject—was the primary user of battery power. When boondocking the furnace was always concerning and so we went solar and have a 1,000 w. generator for backup to solar backup. I didn’t buy a generator until I saw a broken box one on sale and figured 1,000 w. was just enough for our needs. I hardly ever had to use it. If boondocking for several nights when it is cloudy and trees are blocking the sun, a generator is necessary. While we could survive very cold nights, the water tanks and pipes are the problem. The generator cost was too high for the benefit received even though I got it on sale. Of course, that was impossible to predict.

With ever increasing electrical needs, lithium batteries will become more common (raw material shortages are a problem though). One campground owner told me some people want 75w. service, a trend that will probably continue. She has to leave some spaces empty because her power system is overtaxed. Digging and installing new very expensive underground cable costs plenty. I remember houses or apartments with two 15 amp fuses. Now 200 amp is normal and probably too little in a few years.

If you rarely or never boondock, cheap batteries are all that is needed.

[pmclemore]

I spent big bucks to add solar and lithium to my rig, hoping it would enable me to boondock more- plus it is really neat. However if I were to analyze my use, it would not have made sense to spend that much for what use I have made so far. I still intend to make more use of it in the future.

I do want to caution those who are considering solar: do it for its own sake; as a return on investment goes, that will depend on the buyer who has to have it when you want to sell. It's kind of like putting in a pool at your house - it will only increase the value if you can find the reduced set of buyers who will pay for it. You may well lose buyers for whom a pool is a detractor of value.

Big solar is kind of fun, though. And it's paid for.

Pat

[ghaynes755]

RV's are never a financial investment. They are a depreciating asset. You get an RV or add solar/lithium because you want to enhance and enjoy your camping experience. Let's see if anyone who has installed solar/lithium got a big bump in price received when selling. Personal experience of 2 Airstreams and a motorhome with solar/lithium. It helped making the coach/trailers more attractive to the buyers but contributed little to nothing in getting a higher selling price.


But I would do solar/lithium install again in a heartbeat since it increase my enjoyment and flexibility of boondocking without running a generator.

[JunkYard]

Im able to run my heater until its uncomfortable. But ive never been in extended cloudy situations in the winter. But in the desert the other week it was fine with the kids watching TV. I use the zamp 230 portable and I move it around or make sure its getting a lot of sun. AGM 6 volts. Im thinking multiple cloudy days in even colder weather the generator might be needed.

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

RV's are never a financial investment. They are a depreciating asset. You get an RV or add solar/lithium because you want to enhance and enjoy your camping experience. Let's see if anyone who has installed solar/lithium got a big bump in price received when selling. Personal experience of 2 Airstreams and a motorhome with solar/lithium. It helped making the coach/trailers more attractive to the buyers but contributed little to nothing in getting a higher selling price.

Never say "never". The increase in Airstream prices since 2012 -2013 are such that you could have added lithium batteries and solar (better quality in more recent years) and sold units for increasing profit. One Airstreamer in New Mexico, a doctor, bought and sold three units during this time and made enough to buy a unit new in 2019 with his profits.



This however is probably an anomaly and I would not expect that this is a good "investment" normally, and in my book, an Olympic Wave heater or Gas Buddy are a better choice for putting heat into the trailer without draining batteries. Propane is cheap when compared to the upgrades some have made... but then some people have more money than they know what to do with. I am not one of those people.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

RV's are never a financial investment. They are a depreciating asset.

Absolutely. Same with tow vehicles. We spend big bucks on Airstreams and TV’s because we enjoy it. If you want to invest, then buy real estate, equities, or whatever.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by JunkYard

Im able to run my heater until its uncomfortable. But ive never been in extended cloudy situations in the winter. But in the desert the other week it was fine with the kids watching TV. I use the zamp 230 portable and I move it around or make sure its getting a lot of sun. AGM 6 volts. Im thinking multiple cloudy days in even colder weather the generator might be needed.

I’m in exactly the same boat. Put the panels out the other day and got the lithium batteries up to 90% pretty quickly. Ran the furnace at a comfortable level all night. Plus the inverter to get everything charged. Looking at a long stretch ahead of cloudy and rainy days, with 40s at night. We are headed to a county park near Tucson, which I think has elec hookups. Nice not to care either way though.

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by Silver.Sanctuary

Never say "never". The increase in Airstream prices since 2012 -2013 are such that you could have added lithium batteries and solar (better quality in more recent years) and sold units for increasing profit. One Airstreamer in New Mexico, a doctor, bought and sold three units during this time and made enough to buy a unit new in 2019 with his profits.



This however is probably an anomaly and I would not expect that this is a good "investment" normally, and in my book, an Olympic Wave heater or Gas Buddy are a better choice for putting heat into the trailer without draining batteries. Propane is cheap when compared to the upgrades some have made... but then some people have more money than they know what to do with. I am not one of those people.

Yuuup.
The solar thingy provides very low actual electrical power (available Amps), unless it's a large expensive system, in a place with a lot of sun, like Florida/ etc.
Try solar now in PNW or northern tier States.Be lucky to charge a cell phone.
Many Airstream owners have $$$ to burn.In that case, buy 10 -1K batteries, and 10 solar panels.Have fun.I would fire up a $400 -30Amp gasoline generator ( real power) and just plug the rig in.
Run the microwave/hot water heater /AC at same time.Try that with solar lol
Problems solved.

[Gtx Eng]

Original poster here. Attesting to the bend of this thread, we just completed our first 2 week cross country. Several times we boondocked, thankfully we didn't have to trust those dealership batteries. I traveled with the Predator (cheap Harbor Freight inverter generator). At 3000w, we could run a single heat pump at night if needed. The lights and furnace, water pump and refrigerator were easy to manage. The generator could run about 14 hrs on a tank.

Much easier and less costly than any lithium solar upgrade.

Will run this setup, changing it those batteries to a couple of 6v deep cycles for the occasional when we don't want to run the generator. Thus no changes to the inverter, controller / converter, cabling, etc.

Maybe lithiums when the pricing drops in a few more years.

[BayouBiker]

The Predator Generators are very well designed and built inverter generators. The attention to detail is surprising especially when considering the price. Have had two 3000 W (3500 peak) for several years now. Use them for hurricanes at home (tend to lend one out to neighbors or friends) and boon docking, particularly down here in the hot humid south where AC is mandatory or I go camping alone. We have extended run fuel hoses and a marine 14 gal tank so these things run two days easy.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

We are headed to a county park near Tucson, which I think has elec hookups. Nice not to care either way though.

It snowed in Tucson a few days ago. Friends are camping there for part of the winter and sent photos. The snow melted fast.

Some generators are relatively quiet (Honda, Yamaha) and others are not. We bought a Honda because of reliability and quiet. Hopefully other brands are quieter than they used to be. I would not want to be camped next to any generator including mine if I had an option. The few times I needed a generator I only ran it in mid-day when most people were gone. The generator noise is another reason people go solar and lithium.

When we sold our Airstream we got a very good price. Increasing prices for new ones certainly affect people, but there's no good way to tell if solar and other such improvements add to price. They do make it easier to sell I think. Data on sale of houses with solar is better. It appears a house with solar sells for more, though maybe not equal to capital expense. If solar and/or lithium means you can boondock, the camping fees are usually less, so that is a benefit. An RV as an investment is a poor choice and there are valid arguments that the same may be true of houses in normal markets (the present is hardly normal).