Boondocking WITHOUT LITHIUM BATTERIES

[Ray Eklund]

Been Off the Grid since 2006 BC without Lithium Batteries,

Been Off the Grid without a Generator.

Been Off the Grid with only Solar and two AGM Batteries. (Airstream)
Been Off the Grid with only Solar and four 6 volt Batteries. (Oliver)

I do not need Air Conditioning in a Tent nor an Airstream with windows open.

I tent camped in the Midwest in Heat and Humidity and in 2006 within an Airstream. No Lithium Batteries needed in either.

I tent camped in Arkansas digging Quartz Crystals at Coleman's in the Heat and High Humidity. Camped in a Tent with D Cell Battery operated flash light.

Took a cold shower from a hose and never complained once. Maybe once, but got use to it.

I tent camped fly fishing in Wyoming and cooled off by jumping into the River... and shrunk up like a spider on a hot stove. It was refreshing... and ooooh weeee, nippy.

I get hot standing in sunlight. I get cool standing in the shade. No Lithium involved in either technique. Works with a travel trailer if you know the difference of shade and sunlight and when there are options during the daylight. Evenings, anyone can figure it out. I think.

I am not a Trailer Princess and neither is Nancy. When cold, we add covers. When hot and humid, we are down to a sheet. Our Blue Heelers also are comfortable under the same situation.

Having Lithium Battery Power is comparable to wearing a Down Coat in a Wyoming Winter in 1972. I discovered that I was highly allergic to the Down Feathers and could not wear the $125 coat in 1972. I donated it to Goodwill.

If you have reasons to have Lithium Batteries... great. They would be of no purpose for a Neanderthal that is comfortable not having Satellite Television, watching reruns of Gilligan's Island.

I and Abe Lincoln were exposed to weather and getting by in a Log Cabin (ours was a USFS shack as a kid) without electricity., nor air conditioning. It must have had windows, but not sure.

Wood provided heat and cooking on the stove top.

I knew Abe Lincoln before he became an attorney, he was a friend of mine. Well sort of... but I wander.

Needing Lithium Battery power is a choice, not a need for us. Not our choice, as it would not improve how we already enjoy our travel trailer experience.

How do YOU survive without Lithium Batteries and Solar. We have plenty of Battery Power with Acid Cell Battery Power, every day, every night.

If you need television or a hair dryer... we don't. I have natural straight hair if styled or not. I trailer camp to get away from the gizmos that need lots of electricity. We can charge our tooth brushes with Solar Power and vintage batteries. They work. They are inexpensive. They do not catch on fire.

The money saved not buying fancy non needed gizmos... We purchased a 2019 Oliver Elite II travel trailer. Same routines as with any Airstream. Lithium Free... No need for a roof top of Solar Panels or a large fire extinguisher. A couple of Solar Panels and we buzz like a Bee on a fresh flower.

[10Smiles]

Hey Mr. Bean. I do have lithium, but probably really do not NEED it. We rarely use our AC, but then we live in the PNW where, on warm days, you can go outside, find some shade and be fine. We do like it warm when camping in the winter though, so the furnace is a must have. Appreciate your perspective. Reality check!

[Dennis C]

Different strokes for different folks. My wife is extremely sensitive to heat and especially humidity. I’m not sure why she’s like that, but she hates it. She feels like it’s too humid when the humidity level is over 40%. If her only option was sleeping in the Airstream in hot and humid weather with the windows open and no air conditioning, then she’d stay home. So, we bought a generator for those times. Problem solved. We never went down the lithium battery rabbit hole, but I see the appeal for those who need it.

[Lafitte]

“I been everywhere man “.

[Ray Eklund]

I lived in Littleton and Castle Rock, Colorado for years. No Lithium Batteries needed in our 23 or 25 foot Airstream. Trailers are on wheels so we could travel when we looked outside and the wind was blowing to the south... time to hook up and take a break by taking I-25 to Tucson to the February Rock Show.

That is why we bought a trailer. For... Climate Change. The 27 foot has a hot end and a cool end it is so long. Stay under 27 feet to remain comfortable.

We call it the Four Seasons in Wyoming. Cool, Cold,Colder and Hot. Then you move on.

I was almost tarred and feathered in Laramie, Wyoming, as I liked the sub zero weather, low humidity and snow drifts during the Summer. Winter was even worse... but you adapt by doing.

I lived in the Canal Zone when a little Bean. Dressed for Rainy Season or Dry Season. Same clothing, just wore a hat and rain jacket. Sometimes a life jacket to float, if necessary.

Low humidity is common during anytime of the year... somewhere else.

If it was raining or snow melting, hot, cold or dry... someone is going to complain about the weather. I complain about not needing a bath more than twice a year. Too humid, for me.

Even then, still... low humidity, and comfortable with cool dry air moving through. We preferred home anchored to granite, during the cold and wet months. If you like wet and cold... great. We choose our destinations by watching climate and weather reports. Both change, year to year.

People love the humidity and heat in Florida. Clothing appears to be... optional.

I know a person who complained about the low humidity and heat in Las Vegas, Nevada. Not Las Vegas, New Mexico. He sold his home, moved to the upper Idaho area. It has been raining often, snowing often and water everywhere. I expect to see him back in Las Vegas soon... to eliminte the mildew and fungi on everything.

New Mexico at 7800 feet two weeks ago. Below 20F every evening. Set the furnace at 50F in the Oliver. Ahhhh.... comfort under covers and no Lithium found anywhere.

Modern Society has developed a culture of comfort that is unreasonable for city folk.

Humans Beans, unlike Ice Age Neanderthals, are warm climate creatures. 'Hairless Apes' we called them during the Holocene Period... the end of the Ice Age. They should have stayed in the Tropic of Cancer, Equator and Tropic of Capricorn parallels. Hot, humid and Attitude with Longitude was home sweet home.

We are at Home camping or at Home in our Trailer camping. We watch the weather reports every morning at Home home. Our entertainment is for those living in the WET Climates and complain about heat and humidity.

We compromised on how to travel on wheels. We call it 'seasonal camping' with our trailers. If we do not like the weather, climate, elevation, topography, humidity, water access or not, wind ... we know where to travel to avoid misery stories, from the company it brings to OTG campsites.

Of course you have to understand I am not in Lithium Battery sales. But I would make a good Lithium Battery salesman. If you believe in magic... I can find a way to make it work.

Just add ... and make up the rest. Your responses need some work and need to put in some effort. Geez... and I am the Neanderthal?

[hikingcamera]

Our last trailer had 200Ah of AGM batteries and a one way 12-volt fridge. Plus 480 watts of solar on the roof. We could go 4 days in cloudy Pacific Northwest winters. Our Flying Cloud has 200Ah of LiFePo4 and 300W of solar on the roof plus a 100W or 200W portable panel, depending on which we bring. We can't even last 48 hours. Our old trailer lasted twice as long on half the usable battery capacity.

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Our last trailer had 200Ah of AGM batteries and a one way 12-volt fridge. Plus 480 watts of solar on the roof. We could go 4 days in cloudy Pacific Northwest winters. Our Flying Cloud has 200Ah of LiFePo4 and 300W of solar on the roof plus a 100W or 200W portable panel, depending on which we bring. We can't even last 48 hours. Our old trailer lasted twice as long on half the usable battery capacity.

Curious why you think is the case?

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by Hans627

Curious why you think is the case?

I have no idea. We rarely turn on the hot water heater. We don’t really shower on trips that are less than 4 nights. Most of our device charging is done in the truck or from portable batteries.

Our old trailer did have a smaller fridge, maybe 70% the size. And it was simpler. LED light strips mostly. Smaller space to heat although it had a tent top, so that may be a net neutral difference. Instead of built in Fantastic Fans, we had ones that plugged into 12-volt outlets that we hung from the mesh windows on the pop top.

We certainly had more solar on the roof, but we only had a 40W portable panel at the time and really never used that. And I’m
Not sure how much solar really makes a difference on cloudy, often tree covered days. With some good sun, we could go indefinitely with our old trailer, unless we ran the A/C off the inverter which we only ever did to see if we could, and once for a bit to take the edge off a particularly hot weekend.

:shrug:

[Ray Eklund]

We decided that the 2019 27FBQ Airstream and the 2019 Oliver Elite II, with Propane Appliances and an effective and modest 12 volt Solar powered systems, were a perfect match for our style of trailer uses. OTG Boondocking.

With the trend going towards all Electric Trailers conveniences, many new trailers would not work for us. Possibly some in the Airstream models still have both Propane / Electric options for appliances.

When the interior light bulbs used in the 2016 were replaced in later models to LED, that was a big improvement for us. The 2019's have LED lighting.

The Propane Dometic in the Airstream and the Oliver uses a Propane Norcold refrigerator. Both have been excellent in maintaining temperatures and operating very well. The smaller Norcold used in the smaller Oliver, makes it even easier to maintain a constant freezer and refrigerator temperature.

When we cool down either refrigerator before loading, we run either on electricity at home and the day before we leave, switch to Propane.

We get our Propane at Costco, which has been the best price for us.

Of course I am not against Lithium Batteries. For our purposes, the 12 volt systems using Battery Power, charging off the Two Solar Panels on either trailer have been more than adequate for our style of camping.

The Oliver's do not have AM Radio as the fiber glass does not block the interference of electrical systems in the walls. Did not have that problem in any of the Airstreams. Now that AM is going 'extinct', FM will become the major source of Radio. The Oliver has poor FM reception OTG. My F350 has excellent reception and a small pocket radio with ear plugs is better than the Oliver for FM. Need to stand away from the Oliver if I want to listen to AM.

I wonder if I am being Microwaved in the Oliver and not the Airstream?

There will be a year when Lithium Batteries and Systems are Standard. My toothbrush must have Lithium Batteries. One charge and it runs for weeks.

I do use a possible Lithium Battery in my Toothbrush. I am evolving. Slowly, but like to hear how others are considering Lithium or getting feedback from those who have a 'modest 12volt battery system' for power in your trailers with mounted or portable Solar Panels.

[Boxite]

I am often both amused…and annoyed …sometimes…at Neanderthals’ musings…

…but I have to admit I agree with the view that the rush-to-lithium/connectivity/all-things-modern/convenient-while-camping….strikes me as competition-in-desires.

I can, however, see where some men need to accommodate the frivolous in order to preserve peace with the weaker-sex…so as to keep “momma happy”…

I am fortunate that my lover is so willing to accept my decisions to remain minimalist when it comes to batteries…. WalMart lead-acid works just fine for us… All we want to do is enjoy the nature.

We have dear friends, however, who have accepted the recommendations of their medicine-man and believe they need cpap machines, AC, generators, and an ER within 20 minutes…. so their fully-solar-equipped, Lithium-powered Airstream sits in the shed and they remain inside their mansion in the city, cowering in timidity….

We respect their decision.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by Boxite

We have dear friends, however, who have accepted the recommendations of their medicine-man and believe they need cpap machines, AC, generators, and an ER within 20 minutes…. so their fully-solar-equipped, Lithium-powered Airstream sits in the shed and they remain inside their mansion in the city, cowering in timidity….

We respect their decision.

If that’s what respect sounds like to you, I’d hate to see disrespect…

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

If that’s what respect sounds like to you, I’d hate to see disrespect…

You’d have to know them to understand my comment. Suffice it to say that Hypochondria is a disease of itself.

[fossil5775]

We survive very comfortably without lithium. We put two 6 volt Trojans in series & increased our capacity by 50%. We only use about 45 amp hours a day. We use our fans when needed, use our furnace when needed, and keep our fridge on propane most of the time. We have 180 watts of solar that keeps us going most of the time. We do keep a generator and use it about twice as often as blue moons. I hate air conditioning. Apparently my internal thermostat is off kilter to everyone else's- just when the temperature gets to where I can open all the windows & enjoy fresh air everyone else closes theirs & turns on the ac. We have some goal zero solar powered lights that we use for most of our lighting needs. They are also rechargeable via usb, & I admit I cheat most days by plugging them in instead of putting them in the sun. I do this during the day while the sun is giving me my free electricity . We are careful with water consumption, but we never feel deprived. I know lead acid batteries aren't great for the environment, but are somewhat recyclable. What is all this dependence on lithium doing for the environment? I admit I am reluctant to evolve. I prefer wood heat over any other heat & if I could put it in my 19' airstream, I would. We don't exclusively camp (we call it living, & it is 4 seasons for us) OTG; once in a while we go somewhere & there is electric hookup and my husband will plug in because he says if he has to pay for it, then he's gonna use it. Then he closes the windows, turns on the ac & I complain until he turns it off. We still tent camp when we backpack, but I admit to having evolved (code for aged) enough that I can't sleep well on the ground, & I hate getting wet. Small price to pay for the rewards reaped on those adventures

[richard5933]

Need? Quite a subjective term once you get past breathing, eating, drinking, etc. So no, we don't need lithium. At least not any more than we needed the lead acid batteries which came before. We don't even need the electric at all, having tent camped for years with not much at all in the way of electric other than a flashlight.

But we're talking about Airstream and travel trailer camping here, boindocking or not. It seems some enjoy managing with fewer things, but most who are hauling around an Airstream have a basic set of things they like to travel with at a minimum.

For us, a working electric system is on the list of minimum requirements for our Airstream, and while the lead acid batteries did the job we find that lithium batteries do it better. For us. They charge faster, have a near-constant voltage while discharging, have a higher percentage of usable capacity, and they weigh much less. They simply make managing our electric system easier, and they expanded the capacity of the system.

Other than cost and a few days to retrofit the electrical system, they is no real downside for us switching to lithium.

To me, not much of what's discussed in relation to camping in an Airstream is a 'need', but there are some things we find greatly improve the experience. Lithium batteries are one of them.

[field & stream]

We camp unplugged nearly 100% of the time. We put a single 100Ah lithium battery in our 16’ Airstream in order to double the amount of power and simultaneously cut the weight in half. Also, it significantly reduced the number of days I have to fuss with the portable solar. (I am resisting rooftop solar because I think they are ugly and the roof already looks like a flea market display. I’d get rid of the a/c if my wife would let me, and the tv antenna is useless to us.)

We also have a vintage (1962) trailer with a heater, fridge, stove, oven, and light all powered exclusively by propane — no electricity at all. There is no battery. Out of safety concerns, we don’t use the propane light but use solar powered LED lanterns instead.

P.S. we use less than 10Ah per day while camping in the Airstream.

[fossil5775]

10Ah? Impressive!

[Mollysdad]

I enjoyed tent camping....back when sleeping on the ground was fun.
Now, I want some comfort. I like the propane fridge, I've run the water heater briefly for a shower, but shut it off as I leave the bathroom. I just replaced my 12v lead acids with another set of lead acid. I plan to get a 100w. solar suitcase.
I don't envision boon docking for more than a three days and I feel I'll be okay. (I have a generator if I need the microwave or a quick battery charge )

[Boxite]

For those not mathmatically-challenged…..It’d be interesting to see a lead/acid VS lithium in a cost-analysis/evironmental-detriment comparison

Without much calculation on my part….my simple mind says that the cost per kilowatt after conversion is higher in every instance, and lithium-mining is similar to lead-mining…except that lead is more economically and more simply recycled.

According to a leading Lithium battery supplier, Battleborn, 95% of all lead-acid batteries are recycled….while only 5% of all lithium batteries are recycled.

At present, it appears except for weight-savings, the money-side of the equation goes to lead-acid.

If money is no object…then lithium is cool.

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

(I have a generator if I need the microwave or a quick battery charge )

Microwave? While ‘camping?’ Prepare to be eviscerated on this thread!

[starlite29]

While I generally agree with N's perspective, as someone else pointed out above:

With LiFePO4, in addition to weight savings and capacity, there is also charging speed.

Lithium charges 4 times faster than SLA.

Means I can run the generator 1 hour instead of 4.

Far fewer wasted electrons/gasoline/sunlight.

Just saying.