Boondocking with 90w solar and 2 AGMs

[Ch47d1sg]

Originally Posted by aep71

Waiting on a 19CB Caravel and I want to get ahead of problems we may have boondocking.

Understanding the 2021 Caravels power their fridges with ELECTRIC and no propane, I'm wondering how much we can rely on the 90w solar + 2 AGMs.

At most I'll want to get away with our kids for 2-3 days, but a bunch of other forums express concern with the time you can even just run the fridge on 90w solar and 2 AGMs.

Questions:
-Electric draw of the 19CB fridge? I haven't been able to find anything to try to do some math on how long we could run it without being plugged in.

-Lots of comments on Lithium: what kind of length could we gain by upgrading to Lithium? Seems like it's worth the upgrade from everything I've seen.

-Anything else to keep in mind boondocking a 19CB much appreciated!

While I will not comment on the length or time that you’ll gain from lithium as that is related to your energy use. Lithium will give you more available energy to draw from. AGM should only be used to 50% rated capacity so 2 100ah agm will only give you 100ah of energy to use. Lithium can be drawn down to 85 to 90% with no damage to the battery which would give you 170 to 180ah of energy with a similar lithium setup.

Good luck on your journey

[fossil5775]

[QUOTE=field & stream;2463797]

Originally Posted by Toasterlife

If you plan to do any kind of boondocking, and that includes National Parks, where many of the most desirable sites may prohibit generators, you might consider replacing the fridge with a model that will run on propane as an alternative fuel from the get go.




I believe that along with the recent change to the electric-only refrigerators, Airstream eliminated from the body the external venting required by propane refrigerators. Therefore changing to a propane refrigerator is quite complex and will cost many thousands of dollars. Also costing thousands is all that is involved in upgrading to lithium batteries and lots of solar.


Rather than spending thousands of dollars, here is a suggestion that will save thousands of dollars: buy a gently used recent vintage Airstream with the propane/electric fridge.

Agree with this 100%! That electric fridge is enough to prevent me from buying a newer model. We boondock with 180W solar & 2 trojan t-105's, even in below freezing & stay above 80% battery capacity. Only need generator for AC. Do not understand the electric fridge movement. But then I have an oven & no need for a microwave either

[Carl n Lynn]

We have a 2020 20fb Bambi with solar and AGMs. Here’s how we boondocked in the Adirondacks last summer at DEC sites.

Use the fridge as an ice chest! Put frozen water bottles in the bottom bin. On really sunny days, run the fridge for a few hours in the am. When bottles are totally thawed, put in ice you pick up locally. ( there happened to be someone who drove thru every afternoon selling ice!) We didn’t have any difficulty keeping everything cold.

We did several one week trips this way, and had plenty of power for lights and water pump.

In colder months, add a Little Buddy heater. These run on the small propane canisters and are only $125. They are small and portable. We kept warm when it was 20 degrees at a campground that had lost power last month!

We do not have a generator or additional solar, as the above works for us.
Hope these simple and inexpensive ideas help you out.

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by Carl n Lynn

We have a 2020 20fb Bambi with solar and AGMs. Here’s how we boondocked in the Adirondacks last summer at DEC sites.

Use the fridge as an ice chest! Put frozen water bottles in the bottom bin. On really sunny days, run the fridge for a few hours in the am. When bottles are totally thawed, put in ice you pick up locally. ( there happened to be someone who drove thru every afternoon selling ice!) We didn’t have any difficulty keeping everything cold.

We did several one week trips this way, and had plenty of power for lights and water pump.

In colder months, add a Little Buddy heater. These run on the small propane canisters and are only $125. They are small and portable. We kept warm when it was 20 degrees at a campground that had lost power last month!

We do not have a generator or additional solar, as the above works for us.
Hope these simple and inexpensive ideas help you out.

The OP was concerned about the ability to boondock with only two batteries and 90w of solar. The “old school” ideas above show the benefits of letting go of the modern stuff that can hold you back.

Another example: Our other trailer is a vintage (1962) that is only 15’ long and has lights, heat, a refrigerator, a three burner stove, and an oven. We have boondocked in it for weeks at a time from sea level to 12,000 feet and from 20 degrees to 112.

It has no solar, no generator, and does not even have a 12v battery!

Propane powers the fridge, stove, and oven. A portable propane catalytic heater (Little Buddy) provides more than enough heat, and led lights are reachargeable solar or powered by disposable batteries.

Sometimes we get more constrained by what we have than what we don’t have. An option for the OP is the advice from Thoreau: “Simplify simplify”.

[Snow Peak]

I have a 2020 Caravel. The salesmen told us we could dry camp in this for 3-4 days which of course was a lie. With no fans, no furnace ect and the fridge running I was not able to dry camp for a full day in partial sun. I turned the fridge down and then turned it off once in a while and had to use the generator daily on that first trip. I was ready to go to Lithium right out of the gate but first I filed a complaint with the sales manager. She stepped up and gifted me two more AGM batteries that they installed under my bed after consulting with AS and confirming there would be no off gas issues. I also bought a second solar panel. Now I can dry camp for 2-3 days without using the generator. I still have to be careful about playing the stereo too long or loud. Good Luck!



Snow Peak

[fossil5775]

Originally Posted by Carl n Lynn

We have a 2020 20fb Bambi with solar and AGMs. Here’s how we boondocked in the Adirondacks last summer at DEC sites.

Use the fridge as an ice chest! Put frozen water bottles in the bottom bin. On really sunny days, run the fridge for a few hours in the am. When bottles are totally thawed, put in ice you pick up locally. ( there happened to be someone who drove thru every afternoon selling ice!) We didn’t have any difficulty keeping everything cold.

We did several one week trips this way, and had plenty of power for lights and water pump.

In colder months, add a Little Buddy heater. These run on the small propane canisters and are only $125. They are small and portable. We kept warm when it was 20 degrees at a campground that had lost power last month!

We do not have a generator or additional solar, as the above works for us.
Hope these simple and inexpensive ideas help you out.

Insanity! I mean, to each his own, but any RV made in the last 50 years does better than this! How is the fridge an improvement? What is airstream thinking?

[JeffofCT]

Originally Posted by field & stream

The OP was concerned about the ability to boondock with only two batteries and 90w of solar. The “old school” ideas above show the benefits of letting go of the modern stuff that can hold you back.

Another example: Our other trailer is a vintage (1962) that is only 15’ long and has lights, heat, a refrigerator, a three burner stove, and an oven. We have boondocked in it for weeks at a time from sea level to 12,000 feet and from 20 degrees to 112.

It has no solar, no generator, and does not even have a 12v battery!

Propane powers the fridge, stove, and oven. A portable propane catalytic heater (Little Buddy) provides more than enough heat, and led lights are reachargeable solar or powered by disposable batteries.

Sometimes we get more constrained by what we have than what we don’t have. An option for the OP is the advice from Thoreau: “Simplify simplify”.

Very true. If you search Airforums for "early" postings about solar or lithium just 10 years ago, the discussions about what was needed is modest compared to today's conversations.

[mikextr]

Originally Posted by fossil5775

Insanity! I mean, to each his own, but any RV made in the last 50 years does better than this! How is the fridge an improvement? What is airstream thinking?

The next big improvement will be a re-branded Yeti Cooler, that AS will charge double the price for and market as a high tech portable fridge that requires no energy. They will also offer a special, high performance Hoshizaki ice maker package that you can keep in the bed of your new F150 and run off of the 7.2kw generator for extended off grid camping.

[Blind Wille]

Originally Posted by Snow Peak

I have a 2020 Caravel. The salesmen told us we could dry camp in this for 3-4 days which of course was a lie. With no fans, no furnace ect and the fridge running I was not able to dry camp for a full day in partial sun. I turned the fridge down and then turned it off once in a while and had to use the generator daily on that first trip. I was ready to go to Lithium right out of the gate but first I filed a complaint with the sales manager. She stepped up and gifted me two more AGM batteries that they installed under my bed after consulting with AS and confirming there would be no off gas issues. I also bought a second solar panel. Now I can dry camp for 2-3 days without using the generator. I still have to be careful about playing the stereo too long or loud. Good Luck!



Snow Peak

The OP was about a 2021 Caravel 19CB. Note that Airstream updated the solar package for 2021: “The premium Victron solar controller features MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking)” and “works well in cloudy or shaded conditions by intelligently optimizing the harvest (up to 30% compared to PWM controllers) of solar energy from the roof-mounted or external solar panels.....). See AS article dated Oct 02, 2020 about Lithium Power Plus on their website. So direct comparisons to the performance of prior year models without the newer components should be taken with a grain of salt. We have a 2021 Caravel 20FB with 180W and two AGM batteries and it works well for 2-3 days off grid. However, I’m interested in how the extra AGM battery was hooked up under the bed as noted by Snow Peak above. I’m going to add one more 90W Zamp narrow panel for 270W total and would like to have another AGM for the storage. Any details on that installation would be greatly appreciated!

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Blind Wille

The OP was about a 2021 Caravel 19CB. Note that Airstream updated the solar package for 2021: “The premium Victron solar controller features MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking)” and “works well in cloudy or shaded conditions by intelligently optimizing the harvest (up to 30% compared to PWM controllers) of solar energy from the roof-mounted or external solar panels.....). See AS article dated Oct 02, 2020 about Lithium Power Plus on their website. So direct comparisons to the performance of prior year models without the newer components should be taken with a grain of salt. We have a 2021 Caravel 20FB with 180W and two AGM batteries and it works well for 2-3 days off grid. However, I’m interested in how the extra AGM battery was hooked up under the bed as noted by Snow Peak above. I’m going to add one more 90W Zamp narrow panel for 270W total and would like to have another AGM for the storage. Any details on that installation would be greatly appreciated!

Adding AGM batteries to an already existing configuration can be problematic...they are definitely NOT like lithiums in that regard. In fact, we will not supplement an AGM battery pack with more AGMs unless it if 3 months old or less.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad info., but AGMs develop a charging cycle that creates a definite limit to the addition of new batteries to old.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Blind Wille

The OP was about a 2021 Caravel 19CB. Note that Airstream updated the solar package for 2021: “The premium Victron solar controller features MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking)” and “works well in cloudy or shaded conditions by intelligently optimizing the harvest (up to 30% compared to PWM controllers) of solar energy from the roof-mounted or external solar panels.....). See AS article dated Oct 02, 2020 about Lithium Power Plus on their website. So direct comparisons to the performance of prior year models without the newer components should be taken with a grain of salt. We have a 2021 Caravel 20FB with 180W and two AGM batteries and it works well for 2-3 days off grid. However, I’m interested in how the extra AGM battery was hooked up under the bed as noted by Snow Peak above. I’m going to add one more 90W Zamp narrow panel for 270W total and would like to have another AGM for the storage. Any details on that installation would be greatly appreciated!

Hi

Switching from the "old style" solar charger to a Victron is a nice touch. It *will* improve things. The question is: how much? Based on having made that change, *maybe* 10% in terms of real world performance.

Bob

[Snow Peak]

The extra batteries are located in battery boxes that you can access thru the storage compartment. This required a hole to be drilled through the bottom of the trailer. The battery cables are tied to and run along the frame.


Snow Peak

[Snow Peak]

Lewster,



Thanks for letting me know about the limitations in adding AGM's to an existing battery pack. I have been on the forum enough to know you are the expert. A question about your 3 month limit. I picked up the 2020 caravel in Mid-April and I got the extra batteries installed in Mid-July. Do you think I am okay. Not sure when my Caravel first landed on the lot in Oregon.


Snow Peak

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Snow Peak

Lewster,



Thanks for letting me know about the limitations in adding AGM's to an existing battery pack. I have been on the forum enough to know you are the expert. A question about your 3 month limit. I picked up the 2020 caravel in Mid-April and I got the extra batteries installed in Mid-July. Do you think I am okay. Not sure when my Caravel first landed on the lot in Oregon.


Snow Peak

Hmmmmm: you're right at that point where I can't really answer your question. I would keep a close watch on them to see if they all are performing as they should...that includes removing the negative cables every once in a while to check the individual cell voltages. If they are working well together...all of the batteries will be at the same voltage.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Snow Peak

Lewster,



Thanks for letting me know about the limitations in adding AGM's to an existing battery pack. I have been on the forum enough to know you are the expert. A question about your 3 month limit. I picked up the 2020 caravel in Mid-April and I got the extra batteries installed in Mid-July. Do you think I am okay. Not sure when my Caravel first landed on the lot in Oregon.


Snow Peak

Hi

What's done is done. You don't really have another option at this point. Either they run for several years or they run for a bit less than that. How long depends on how you treat them and just what you call "end of life". The battery manufacturers call 80% capacity end of live. Some RV folks seem to run them to the 20 or 30% capacity point.

The batteries that came with your trailer could have been made anywhere from 2 months before delivery to 14 months before delivery. The manufacture date (which is stamped on the batteries) is the thing to watch.

Cycle count is the next issue. A lot depends on just how many times you did what between April and July. If (like a lot of people) you ran the stock batteries dead flat a couple of times, that's not great. If you went out twice and never got below 60% charge, that's different ( but very unusual ).

Bob

[Collyn]

Re: In colder months, add a Little Buddy heater. These run on the small propane canisters and are only $125. They are small and portable. We kept warm when it was 20 degrees at a campground that had lost power last month!

This poses a very real risk of C02 gas poisoning - even 4% affects the brain.

I have written a major article re this - contact me and I will send you a Link.

Collyn

[Snow Peak]

Thanks Uncle Bob, That is great advice. I was watching my batteries pretty close but I did let it drop to 40% once. Otherwise I ran the generator when dropping to 50-60%.


Snow Peak

[SUP'n Woman]

Airstream CSH, what is a battery monitor, where do you find them, and how do you put them on? I'm somewhat challenged in that way!

[Collyn]

Consult an auto-electrician - most know about solar.

The golden rule is to have as much solar as you can fit.

I have used solar in RVs since the 1980s and have a large all-solar home with battery back-up (in Sydney, Australia) - it does not use grid energy - instead we sell surplus energy to a grid supplier.

We previously lived on 20 acres in North West Australia where we had 4 kW solar system with 480 amp hours AGM battery storage. The original set were wrecked by a caretaker - but the replacements still have about 80% of original capacity - after 21 years.

Solar really works but one needs a lot of it.

Collyn

[dan20]

90 watt solar panel on roof is inadequate. I carry an additional 90 watt Zamp portable that I set up on the ground. I do primarily boondocking. I have installed 2 - 6 volt deep cycle batteries per the recommendation of my local Interstate battery rep who also boondocks and am quite pleased with the set up. It works very well.
I would change out the electric refrigerator for a dual mode. They use very little propane and work quite well, at least mine does. 16 ft Sport