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Old 06-22-2024, 08:56 PM   #1
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2021 30' Flying Cloud
Orlando , Florida
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Boondocking with 12v fridge and AGM batteries

Boondocking with 12v fridge and AGM batteries.

I am a new owner of a 30 foot flying cloud Airstream with 200W of solar and 4 year old AGM batteries. The previous owner only camped with full hook ups and she got tired of defrosting the freezer while living in it full-time so she installed Dometic DMC 4101 12V refrigerator that doesnít run off propane.

We are planning to full-time in our Airstream for 10 months and would like to do some Boondocking while traveling. From everything that Iíve read on the forums it seems that 12 V fridges are very power-hungry. I wish that I could do some testing to know how long it will run, but I donít have time because we are working full-time and canít keep the trailer near our home due to local code enforcement.

We are on a tight budget and we will own the trailer for about one year so I would like to come up with a good and cost-effective upgrade or solution to help us Boondock. Is a generator an adequate solution? If so, which one? I am currently seriously considering buying a pair of two 100 amp hour LiTime Lifepo4 batteries to install in the stock battery box. This should give us about double the amount of power and should also help us recharge batteries faster when using a generator. I am also looking at buying a renology 200w suitcase. Unfortunately My converter Wfco9855 is not lithium compatable, so I am hoping that the stock converter and solar combination can effectively maintain my batteries up to 14.6v. I canít find a reasonable way to swap the converter because it is behind the electric panel, and there is only a couple inches of slack. I donít want to cause big electrical problems by pulling on the panel. Iím not an electrician so Iím looking for a straightforward easy solution to keep our refrigerator cold and use a small amount of electricity during each day for fans and lights. We will primarily use the trailer in 50-70 degree weather.

I have spent way too many hours reading the forums and researching online with the goal of trying to come up with a cost effective solution that will work. I am worried about guessing; investing $ and being disappointed with the result if it doesnít work. If you have any experience or creative ideas, will you please chime in with advice and tips? I would be very grateful! Thank you for making it through this long post.
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Old 06-22-2024, 08:58 PM   #2
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go with as much lion as you can afford
leave room for more
over a 10 year period, they are less expensive than any lead acid
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Old 06-22-2024, 09:36 PM   #3
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Lots of issues here. The only inexpensive solutions are to plug into shore power or always run a generator.

That fridge uses about 12amps when cooling and will likely be doing that about 50% of the time — so, in the range of 100-150Ah per day. Your two AGM batteries wouldn’t run it for one day, and two lithium wouldn’t last for two days.

Your two solar panels under ideal solar conditions wouldn’t replace half of what that fridge uses, and under poor conditions will replace next to none.

Do not spend any money on lithium batteries without a lithium compatible converter. An incompatible converter will only charge them about 60% of the way giving no significant extra storage.
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Old 06-23-2024, 07:06 AM   #4
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Thank you for sharing!

Thank you for your insight! These were some of my concerns and why I posted on the forum! I appreciate you sharing.

Since we are going to Fulltime for 9 months in the RV on a modest budget, I need to come up with a reasonable solution. My rough estimate is that we would like to boondock in 3-4 day increments for 30 days total. Would a good course of action be to put the original 3 way refrigerator back in the trailer? We also considered using a cooler when we boondock. Another thing I was considering was to figure out if I can get some type of fast charger and use the generator for a few hours per day to charge a pair of 100ah lifepo4 batteries. My head has been spinning for weeks over this….The learning curve is steep.

Thank you in advance for your ideas and for sharing your experience!!
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Old 06-23-2024, 07:31 AM   #5
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I almost only boondock. I have a 12v fridge, 2x 100ah LiFePo batteries, and up until recently, 300W of solar. This was enough to stay out until the black was full (about 7 days) as long as the sun was shining, even in the winter. We just put 200W more solar because the sun doesnít always shine. We also have a Dc-dc on order to lessen the likelihood that we will arrive at our spot with less than 100% on cloudy days.

During the winter with itís shorter days and lower sun angles, Between the furnace, the fridge, and my cpap we will use about 30% of capacity after sunset before the sun comes back up.

Your biggest downfall is the lack of Lithium. With 2x 100ah LiFePoís and that 200W of solar, you should be able to get at least 3 days of disconnected camping - maybe more if itís sunny.

Hope this helps.
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Old 06-23-2024, 07:39 AM   #6
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In my opinion, simply put, the trailer you purchased is not at all designed to boondock and there is no low cost solution to change that fact. In addition to the power demands of the fridge, the air conditioner (are there two?) will use even more and then there is everything else.

Replacing the fridge with a propane unit will help a lot but installed will cost a few thousand dollars and you will still need to plug into shore power or a generator. A thousand watts of solar and 800Ah of lithium batteries might solve the problem, but only if you have good solar conditions and don’t use the a/c.

Like I said above, the only inexpensive solutions are to plug into shore power or always run a generator.
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Old 06-23-2024, 08:34 AM   #7
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I have to agree with Field and Stream. If your not going to keep the unit for more then a year just buy a generator. You likely wonít need air conditioning for the temps you described. In that case a Honda 2200 would be efficient quiet and dependable. It will also be easy to sell if you have no need for it after a year.
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Old 06-23-2024, 08:43 AM   #8
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The key here is that this is not a long term situation. My question is, when you say you want to boondock, will you be out for a week or just a few days before you can plug in again? And what else will you want to power besides the fridge? I mostly boondock for short periods of time and often end up just using a good cooler. I also just use the stove and a light here and there. How much do you want to "rough it?" It's an electrical math problem and will improvements increase the sale price of your AS or be offset in other ways.
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Old 06-23-2024, 09:32 AM   #9
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You have the Wrong Airstream for Boondocking

Field and Stream knows what most OTG Boondockers know by instinct.

Other owners think there is an easy solution to utilize the wrong Airstream. Full time generator? Even idling it will get your attention. The 2019 Oiiver Elite II we bought from the original owner wanted Air Conditioning and bought a Yamaha ED2200iS generator. It appeared to be unused, as the Oliver had all the OTG appliances and the Solar and four 6 volt batteries were more than what we need, anytime, anywhere. AC at elevation, using a generator, is just a heavy option for us. But great for resale purposes when the time comes.

You have the WRONG AIRSTREAM for doing any time Off the Grid Boondocking or casual Boondocking without hookups. You own a RV Park Airstream.

For the large majority of Travel Trailer owners... what you have is Perfect. RV Parks with hookups. No problem. No complaint from me.

The 2019 Airstreams have what was important to us. We Boondock, off the grid. Avoid RV Parks attracting 80% of travel trailer owners with electrical power hungry RV's, Buses, beautiful Freight Liners and converted Airplanes being used for 'all terrain' narrow roads to drag the tail...

Having 30# Propane Tanks, Solar and 3 power Refer, propane cooktop and propane heater in both the 2019 Airstream and 2019 Oliver Elite II give us comfort and uses very little Propane... the way we OTG Boondock.

You found a beautiful Airstream. It will sell to someone who is a RV Park traveler. Find yourself a 25 or 27 foot Airstream, with three way power Refer. We have never used the Two AC Units on the 27FBQ, nor the single AC Unit on the Oliver. We, of course, are western high country campers and move with the Seasons when temperatures do not require AC. We do use our furnace to keep the 'frost off of our pumpkins', as we say, but just to get interior temperatures above 45 degrees at Sunrise, if we are sleeping in from a tough 'dig'.

Sunrise the Sun provides instant heat... and the Sun is hot in clear thin air. Air temperature is 35F, Sun shining in our open door towards the Sun is 75F.

Sell the 30 foot hotel on wheels. Get a 25 or a 27/28 foot Airstream with Propane appliance options.

If you need the space of a 30 foot trailer... you will learn to figure out what to do as many are on the road. When you think you know it all and leave the paved road... dragging your 'rear end' will remind you to reconsider your options. Bring shovels... they work.
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Old 06-23-2024, 09:55 AM   #10
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boondocking with 12v dometic

Want to throw something out here.. the Dometic DMC 1401 does NOT use 12 amps when running.. it use 5.5 to 6.1 depending on temps. how do I know this,, both using amp clamp and smart shunt on that line only..

now when it goes into defrost it will pull 12 amp for like 5-15 mins again depending on conditions.. If you are in the west like we have been for the past 9 month with low humidity it runs for less as there is less frost to remove.

I will post some screenshots from phone to show the power use cycle as well..

I run 600 watts on AS with 430 ah lithium and have NO issues with power. if needed i also have a 335 panel on pickup truck camper shell to help.. my panels are tiltable and being at different angles I usually only get about 30 amp tops at any one time..

My system started as a 300 watt and added panels along the way with wires sized for the amount I was looking to get. same with batteries.. started out with 2 6v Golf Cart 220 ah lead and got one 230 ah cell I put together with BMS and then a bit later got another kit of 230 cells to make the pair.

I upgraded from 30 amp PWM to 20 amp MPPT then to 30 am mppt with the 20 being used for truck panel each with bluetooth. total est cost is around 2K more or less..
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Old 06-23-2024, 09:57 AM   #11
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Hi

There's a pretty wide range of 12V fridges out there. The designs got a *lot* better as time went on. The newer ones pull less power than the older ones did. Size also matters. You will find units out there that pull a max of 5A. Your fridge pulls a max of 13A.

Let's use 6A as the average draw.


As noted above, your AGMs when new had about 100AH of usable capacity. It's a pretty good bet that the capacity is < 80AH at this point. How much less ... who knows. 6A drain at 80AH is 13 hours.

Firing up a generator every 12 hours is not a practical thing. They are noisy and use fuel. If you are out in the middle of nowhere, noise might not be as big an issue. Getting fuel every day just might be.

Fully charging a lead acid battery is not a quick process. Figure that you will be running the generator for >4 hours each time you need to recharge. If it's needed every 8 hours, you pretty much are running the generator all the time.

What to do?

1) Do some upgrades.

=== or ====

2) Don't use the fridge when you boondock. We camped out in tents for *many* decades .....

Ok, so option 1:

It would be nice if there was a zero cost / no effort solution. If your target is 3+ days off grid, there really isn't one.

The math:

4 days run at 6A would be about 600 AH of usable capacity.

Solar will add to that, but only when you have sun. Clouds roll in or you are camped in the shade .... not much help.

If you put in 300AH of lithium, worst case you would run the generator about once a day. Best case, you run it every other day. With lithium and a 100A charger (not going to be cheap ....)

Is this *just* a problem boondocking?

Nope. It's a problem driving down the road as well. Your 7 pin charge setup is not going to get 6 to 13A back to the trailer. You may find that 4A is about all it's good for. It only will do that while you are in motion. Shut down the engine in the tow vehicle and no current.

Net result: You will arrive at your boondock location with a chunk of battery already used up ....

Bob
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Old 06-23-2024, 11:08 AM   #12
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Iíve been to 48 states and 10 provinces. I donít see too many places where you are going to boondock in a 30 foot silver trailer. Iíve boondocked as many as 200 nights in a year. In a black Sprinter, I can stealthily park in a lots of places. I drive around and look for a spot. Once found, I park, turn off the engine and put up 3 shades. From the time I park to the time I put up the shades, it takes less than a minute. I donít have a solution on a budget, but check out a Goal Zero 4000 and a Honda 2200. You can power your rig at night and charge during the day. Also consider taking a thousand watts of portable solar. If you have sun, you should be able to charge without hearing a generator running.
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Old 06-23-2024, 11:30 AM   #13
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screen shots done in the past 10 mins 6-23-24, 11:30 MST

https://www.facebook.com/carl.newton.9678/

June 23, 24 date.
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Old 06-23-2024, 11:50 AM   #14
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I think you're on the right track with an inexpensive lithium conversion and extra external panels. The only catch is doing the converter conversion and you would need some sort of battery monitor with lithium batteries.
  • Converter: It may seem daunting to replace the charger but I've done it twice and if you take your time it's not so bad. With your WFCO I'm not sure but if it's the same as our 2021 Bambi, it's a pretty straightforward swap to a version with a switch*. I sort of remember on another thread someone had a charger in a 30' camper they thought would be hard to get to but it turned out it wasn't. Anyways, might be worth investigating.
  • Batteries: I have inexpensive HQST batteries which don't fit in the battery box, but have served us well. The Li-Time I've heard are good, but I'd consider SOK at $315ea. They have a great reputation and they are Bluetooth so you can monitor their charge state without having to install a shunt. They are a whole lot cheaper than a year ago or I would have gotten them.
So, with 200W on the roof and 200W plugin solar with 200Ah lithium, you won't be bulletproof running the frig and other loads for 3-4 days, but I think you'd be close most of the time. We have 700Ah panels and 400Ah batteries and can go for at least a week with more loads than just the frig (Starlink, computers, etc.).

The solar panels with an MPPT controller and lithium profile might get the batteries charged fully if you're lucky with sun. But another option I can think of is to keep the existing charger which will only get the batteries up to 60-80% (as pointed out above) but then get a relatively inexpensive lithium charger to top them off when you have power. I like Victron and they make a 15A charger which I would think would be adequate. But there are much cheaper options as well. Just plug it in and clamp it onto the battery terminals.

*Just don't get the WFCO autodetect (AD), it doesn't work.
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Old 06-23-2024, 12:35 PM   #15
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Changing 'what was not' is a Barb Wire Experience coming?

Airforum members have the experience and options to offer!

Uncle Bob jumped the barb wire fence again.

I still put my tongue onto the end of a 9 volt battery to test if it has any power left. A volt meter takes some effort. Batteries may be dead. I will check later.

If anyone is taking money to upgrade what never was, or meant to be... I am certain that there are more surprises to be discovered. Learned my lessons by trying to fit between two barbed wires on a four barb wire fence. No matter their age, they still get your attention...

Getting my head through was easy. Getting the rest over was the trick.

Some... may understand why there are clumps of hair from Herefords (orange) and Angus cattle (black). Great back scratchers.

Deer and Elk jump over the fence. They are constructed to do what Hereford and Angus cannot. Uncle Bob is a Bull Elk and clears the fence.

To upgrade and change a Travel Trailer, that is a Hereford/Angus model and wanting to turn it into an Elk/Deer model, may be a challenge.

My electrical knowledge was from 'Back to the Future'. For me... did not work. I am a Neanderthal stuck with 2019 technology. Takes a lot of Banana peels and wife says... no more on this trip. She is right. A Human Bean who hates Bananas. Maybe Beans the Magical Fruit?

i will get back into the garage looking for stuff that is lost.
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Old 06-23-2024, 02:16 PM   #16
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Wow. Thank you everyone for being generous with your time to reply. We are a family of 4 planning to fulltime for the school year, so we bought a 2021 30’ FC Bunk. Fortunately, our trailer came with a 3” lift, which will hopefully help us get off the beaten path. I am grateful for all of the comments. There have been some very helpful suggestions and opposing opinions on how to plan for our upcoming electric needs. This helps explain why my research process has been so difficult up to this point, haha.

Please keep the advice coming. I am reading everything and carefully taking it all into consideration! Thank you
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Old 06-23-2024, 03:01 PM   #17
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We started with four AGM 6VDC 300 amp hour batteries and 800 watts of solar in/on our 2014 31' Classic. We now have 1,000 watts of solar and two 330 Amp Hour lithium batteries. No issues running our Vitrifrigo marine refrigerator with a 12Vdc Dan Foss compressor. We could even run one A/C unit for a lunch break.

One must be aware that the real world output of solar panels is typically 75% of the claimed power. Thus we have seen real world 750 watts charging out of the ten 100 watt rated panels.

Our 2015 23D International Serenity has five 100 watt panels that generate 375 watts on a bright day feeding a 315 amp hour lithium battery. We have a smaller Vitrifrigo refrigerator like in the Classic and have had no issues when off grid.
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Old 06-23-2024, 03:41 PM   #18
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Lots or wise comments already posted but I'll just add that 12V refrigerators that have Danfoss compressors are exceptionally efficient.
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Old 06-23-2024, 04:45 PM   #19
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Okay to boil this down here are some options if you want to boondock.

Cheapest
Champion Dual Fuel generator. With some slight generator plumbing changes which you’ll find on the web this can run on the propane outlet of your trailer or on gasoline. You’ll need to run this for a good portion of the day and your current batteries will get you through the night. Annoying to you and those around you but it does work.

Better
Get the generator for when it’s cloudy and 200-300w of portable solar panels when it’s not. Those will reduce your generator usage greatly but it will still be needed maybe daily or every other day.

Even better
Upgrade to 400w of Lithium. That involves getting a battery monitor, new converter, and perhaps a DC-DC converter to be able to charge from your tow vehicle. You’d still want the solar and generator above. Be sure the solar panels are lithium compatable.

Best
Fill the roof with solar (800w) plus all of the above. Then you wouldn’t need the generator most days.

Bonus
With the lithium options you could add the Victron Multiplus 3000 inverter and change the wiring so all the outlets are inverted rather than a select few.

…OR

Stay in sites with a power hookup!
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Old 06-23-2024, 05:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coasttocoast View Post
Iíve been to 48 states and 10 provinces. I donít see too many places where you are going to boondock in a 30 foot silver trailer. Iíve boondocked as many as 200 nights in a year. In a black Sprinter, I can stealthily park in a lots of places. I drive around and look for a spot. Once found, I park, turn off the engine and put up 3 shades. From the time I park to the time I put up the shades, it takes less than a minute. I donít have a solution on a budget, but check out a Goal Zero 4000 and a Honda 2200. You can power your rig at night and charge during the day. Also consider taking a thousand watts of portable solar. If you have sun, you should be able to charge without hearing a generator running.
Boondocking and stealth camping are two different things. There are plenty of large RV Boondocking or camping in state parks ect without hookups.
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