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Old 03-06-2008, 08:00 PM   #41
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Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangebowdrie
I feel pretty safe almost anywhere, when 100 lb. malamute dog, and shotgun are with me.
Two big dogs are worth a gun in any fight. Two aussies and a great dane are the sound of "mess with the next guy". We are blissfully non-paranoid - even if we should be...
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:06 PM   #42
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It's been interesting reading this thread, the give and take of different posters.
Your comfort level dependes to a large degree on your normal suroundings, where you grew up. Case in point:

A friend of mine (Jeff) in his 20's went camping with us in the Sierras. He was so far out of his element that at night, he wouldn't leave the light-circle of the campfire or trailer lights. Too many critters for him. (Oh yeah, we had fun with him!)
I'm not comfortable in many city situations where Jeff is totally at home and comfortable.
I have the training and means to be safer in both places than Jeff is, it's just what you grow accustomed to and what your experience level is.
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:42 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
Roger, I'm not a paranoia type person but I do believe in "crimes of opportunity". I think for the career criminal, they will get you anywhere, but for others it's spur of the moment because the opportunity presented itself.

Jack
And Jack, after re-reading my post, I realized it appeared I was picking on your post... and I hadn't intended that, and I apologize as it appeared so. Knowing you as well as I do, I would never imply that you are paranoid or unreasonably concerned by all this 'cause I know you aren't.

My point was just that sometimes, without a specific threat visible, many folks are more alarmed by their perceptions of their surroundings than may be necessary.

Again, Jack... my apology.

Roger
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:49 PM   #44
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The guy that killed a bunch of hikers (Gary Hilton) camped illeagle in our county. (Macon county NC). He was camped at Camp Branch on Wayah mountain a place that my wife and I like to take the dogs and walk an old logging road. The local game warden made him leave he said he carried a billy stick in his back pocket. Hilton later dumped one of his victims in Macon county after he cut his head off. We also have our concealed carry permits and I carry a small 45 auto. We growed up camping out in the woods and never felt we were in danger. But times have changed and we must change our behavior to match. When we hike or camp now we also are packing.
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:59 PM   #45
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Wow.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:46 PM   #46
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I can't ever remember a time where we've camped and felt threatened. We do boondock but have never seen anything even remotely concerning other than big bear tracks a few times, and once a cougars tracks when we got up one morning that were not there the night before.

I suspect I'm the one who scares the other campers.

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Old 03-06-2008, 09:51 PM   #47
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Again just my imput, Nice to see the Men and Women who choose to keep their firearms at hand to protect themselves and thier family and the public if needed. Regardless of where the family and I go, camping,krogers,or to the mall I am hopefully aware and ready to one up a thug. As far as the mag-light goes trade it in for a good zenon light(surefire) and a pocket knife(benchmade) and you will be better off if you are not ready to bear a firearm. Robert
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:06 PM   #48
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More like 1 in 100

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR4US
the point I'm trying to make here is:
1 in every 11 Americans are incarcerated.
the #1 sector in the building industry is correctional facilities.

where do you think all this crime happens?
Your statistics are off by quite a bit. It's about 1 in 100 for the rate of incarceration in the US (higher for certain minority groups). It's nowhere near 1 in 11. This comes straight from the front page of the Washington Post last Friday.

Prison construction is no longer leading the building industry. That was true in the 90s but not now. In FY 2002 the construction budget for the Federal Bureau of Prisons was slashed to nearly nothing as prison constructions funds were reappropriated to homeland security. The BOP had the largest construction budget in the country. At one point they had 24 facilities across the US under construction at the same time. Now it's only a couple.
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:15 PM   #49
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No arguement from me on this one. Democractict presidents. I may leave for Canada!
If you have problems with Democratic presidents don't go to Canada. They're far more liberal than the US!!!
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:56 AM   #50
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I said prevost not provost!!
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:38 AM   #51
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Things happen very quickly no matter how secure you feel. Before my retirement I parked in a lot near the Greyhound bus station. I pulled into my spot and opened my door to get out of the truck and as soon as I did a gentleman stepped between me and my open door. He then pulled up his shirt and said "I just want to show you I ain't carrying." I looked him straight in the eyes and said "but I am" I think he is still running. The rest of the story is that I worked in a Federal Office and could not carry but he didn't know that. He had figured out the blind spots and would approach from the side as soon as a door opened. I worry what thugs will try to do to more passive individuals.
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:47 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimandrod
Your statistics are off by quite a bit. It's about 1 in 100 for the rate of incarceration in the US (higher for certain minority groups). It's nowhere near 1 in 11. This comes straight from the front page of the Washington Post last Friday.

Prison construction is no longer leading the building industry. That was true in the 90s but not now. In FY 2002 the construction budget for the Federal Bureau of Prisons was slashed to nearly nothing as prison constructions funds were reappropriated to homeland security. The BOP had the largest construction budget in the country. At one point they had 24 facilities across the US under construction at the same time. Now it's only a couple.
thanks for the correction... i suffer from chronic exaggeration and hyperbole.. comes from years of watching the main stream media, and listening to algore
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:21 AM   #53
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oommmm....oommmm...ooommmm....

It seems one's perception of 'personal safety' or the lack of it is directly influenced by one's normal everyday environment. Yesterday one coked-up freak nearly ran me off the road while ignoring a large YIELD sign (maybe he was just insane and off his meds..) and as I pulled up into my not-so-bad neighborhood I got to witness a quick dope deal by my neighborhood junkie (one of three who appear to be users not dealers, but sometimes the dealers come to them...and leave very quickly). Anyway, my point is that if you are fortunate enough to live in an area with very low crime and very civilized social interaction please resist the temptation to judge those of us who are not so fortunate and our occasional "heightened awareness" of our surroundings. One man's paranoia is another man's realism.... have a nice day!
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:39 AM   #54
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Perceptions

I don't perceive parking at Walmarts or rest stops to be boondocking.
There wouldn't be bad guys ( or good guys ) where I boondock, because
it is out in the boondocks. Also, I usually camp with quite a few freinds, and there is strength in numbers.
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:45 AM   #55
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There are actually TWO recurring themes in this thread: 1) the degree of perceived threat from others while camping, and 2) how those who feel the most threatened are "packing heat". What I would like is a response to the following question:
Among those who don't feel safe without a gun while camping, who has actually displayed and/or pointed a firearm (loaded or not) at another person in self-defense while camping? Feel free to briefly describe the circumstances if you feel you were justified.

-Jerry
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:32 AM   #56
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Go rent this movie and you will never boondock again . (at least not without heavy firepower)

See the "Trailer" here:



Caution: Trailer video is quite gorry near the end.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:50 AM   #57
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I love scary movies! Here's another...Wolf Creek. I even had to look it up afterwards to see if it was based on a real incident.

Wolf Creek (2005) - Movie Info - Yahoo! Movies

Michelle, Dearborn MI... worst urban rap in all your travels ???
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
Knowing you as well as I do, I would never imply that you are paranoid or unreasonably concerned by all this 'cause I know you aren't.

.Again, Jack... my apology.

Roger
And knowing you well enough Roger I didn't have concerns regarding the post. Thanks for your concern. It is appreciated!

Jack
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESCAPE POD
There are actually TWO recurring themes in this thread: 1) the degree of perceived threat from others while camping, and 2) how those who feel the most threatened are "packing heat". What I would like is a response to the following question:
Among those who don't feel safe without a gun while camping, who has actually displayed and/or pointed a firearm (loaded or not) at another person in self-defense while camping? Feel free to briefly describe the circumstances if you feel you were justified.

-Jerry
3 years ago, in a private campground near Garner State Park in Texas. My campsite was the end of a row, adjacent to another private campground divided by a loosely tied wooden fence made of wire and large mostly straight branches for pickets.

I was outside my trailer, enjoying the view of the river behind me, when I suddenly saw movement and a dull shine peak between some loose branch "pickets" 20 feet from me. I quickly realized it was a muzzle, and saw a silhouette figure crouching behind it. The muzzle was sweeping back and forth, and I realized I was in the line of fire.

I assessed the situation quickly as follows:
  1. What is in the line of fire? I quickly told my wife to get out of the trailer and move away and go to the camp office to call 911 - and report person with gun (no cell signal at this location). As this occurs I move towards a flanking position.
  2. What is in my line of fire if I shoot? Can I see what I am shooting at? What is behind my target in case I miss? What if my bullets pass thru the target? What is the collateral damage that can potentially occur and is it worth it based on current situation?
  3. It is currently Spring Break - many families with kids - I am thinking could this be a kid with a toy with dumb but not so unintentional motives or an adolescent or adult with far more malicious motives?
  4. I hear giggling as I get closer to the fence line, and quickly determine that it is a small group of teens, and being that age, I assume the muzzle is that of a pellet gun.
At this point, I could have drawn my sidearm and taken different paths that could have escalated the situation, or even worse, I could have chosen to stop the threat right then and there, but my previous life told me otherwise. Instead, I left my sidearm concealed, approached the muzzle from the side, and stated "If you fire, I will fire back in response".

The teens withdrew the muzzle from the fence line, produce a nervous giggle, and responded "I was aiming for your dog".

Within seconds, they retreat. I remain at my campsite and choose not to pursue into the adjacent property. (There is a good legal reason for this)

A few minutes later, a county deputy arrives. I describe the situation as it has occurred, giving my assessment that I now believe the weapon is a pellet gun, and the suspects are teens. At time I also inform him that I am armed and my sidearm is on me. I also inform him that I also used to be a deputy, but make it clear that he is in charge of the situation without bias from me.

The deputy then goes over to the property and disappears for a few minutes, and comes out with a 15 year old male, on the verge of tears. The teen quickly saw the reality of the situation when the deputy went to find him, place him in cuffs, and was quick to admit he was pointing a loaded pellet gun at my dogs behind the cover of the fence.

At that time, the retrieves the weapon, and places him in the patrol car. He then come to me and asks what I would like to do anything other than the charges the deputy was going to file.

I informed the deputy that I think the teen has learned his lesson and to allow me to speak to him with the intention of teaching him the possible outcomes of his actions, and let him go. Scare tactic if you will…..

The deputy then takes the teen out of the car, and brings him to me.

I tell the teen that his actions were stupid, and could have cost him his life. I remind him that this is Texas, damn near every other person has a gun, especially out in the country where we currently were at, and they can and will shoot. I then informed him that I also am armed, with a REAL gun, and lift my shirt to show him. (He did not know this, and assumed my earlier statement that I would shoot back was a bluff) I tell him that I used to be a deputy, so based on my experience, I chose not to escalate or shoot, however, not everyone will have that control. He then realizes the gravity of his actions, breaks down in tears in front of me, the deputy, and his "peers" (no parents or guardians) that he was camping with, and begins to apologize profusely.

We un-cuffed him, confiscated his pellet gun (with his overwhelming consent) and let him go...

Oddly enough, the previous nights at camp, that side of the fence was loud and rowdy with borderline loud music and the occasional profanity. That night, it was quiet as a hospital....

Point in telling this story is that yes, there are those who choose to carry firearms, but the firearm itself is not adequate defense. One must be able to understand and quickly analyze the situation before concluding to use it. There are many who take a class to obtain a permit to carry guns, but in my opinion, the class does not adequately teach the thought process leading up to its use.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the right to bear arms, but there are many out there that don't fully grasp the responsibility that comes with carrying a gun. I think only training, experience, and common sense can best qualify a person to carry a gun, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:37 PM   #60
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Back in the good ol' days when I used to sit inside my 'weapon' at 40K feet, the one thing that was always drilled into our thick skulls since the first day of OTC was Situational awareness, something to this day I never forget about. It saved my life in the past and present and is always something we should all think about no matter where we are.
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