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Old 04-11-2021, 01:15 PM   #41
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Ray, it is great to see you on the Forum again...even if you do go back into semi-hibernation. I enjoy and appreciate your posts and had realized I hadn't seen any in quite a while a few weeks ago. Happy travels, whichever direction the spinning bottle leads you!
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:55 PM   #42
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Reserve, New Mexico to Snow Lake (Gila National Forest)

If someone wants to break into Off the Grid Boondocking, I am giving up a very nice area with plenty of Gila National Forest pullouts.

The paved road going south out of Reserve is 435. It is asphalt, sort of, where the frost has not damaged it over decades of weather. The weekend can be busy, but this area is HUGE. Avoid hunting season for Elk. Don't wear any clothing that might resemble a Bull Elk drinking a Budweiser. OK?

Look at the map and find Snow Lake. It is on the border of the Gila Wilderness and the Gila National Forest. That means the NFS road stops and the hiking trail into the Mogollon Wilderness begins where native Indians lived and thrived.

Once you are on 435, then 141 up into the Gila National Forest going South. Negrito Work Center is where you are heading. Look for 28 heading South and then 142 will show up to Snow Lake. Good camping. Snow lake has or did when we were there a seven or so years ago... CARP in the shallow water. You can walk in and grab them... almost like Piranha wanting to eat you, kind of place. (Kids will love it. They are harmless and weigh ten or more pounds each. The Carp, not your kids, of course.)

Do not attempt other roads other than those you traveled. Some were real nasty last year as they had a flood down one canyon road to Apache Creek that you had be an very good driver to avoid problems...

Frying Bacon here might is not advised. This is not patrolled by NFS rangers to lecture you on wildlife management. Hike with a walking stick that is five feet long or taller than your oldest child... and can swing it like Babe Ruth in the event you smell like... Bacon. Arm everyone with a walking... stick that will not snap off if you swing it. A Louisville Slugger... might be smarter. OK. No more humor coming. YOU are at the bottom of the Food Chain here. The Carp can swim away, you cannot.

The Gila Cliff Dwellings are very nice but the nice paved road to it is a bit switch back and best not to tow into there. We did with a 23 footer and it was a Royal PIA. The up and down, switch backs and not pleasant.

All of this is possible with the Gila National Forest Map you will... will BUY at the National Forest office just west of Reserve. Or get it before you go.

The elevation is high enough for warm days and cool nights. Lots of Forest to camp within. Snow Lake camping is an open area outside the trees. You can find Apache Tears to the NE up the side the hill... obsidian globs the size of quarters and dimes everywhere.

This is your FIRST OTG Boondocking opportunity. Those who do this one let us know. You may be ready to get into nicer areas but on dirt/state gravel improved ALL SEASON roads... soon.

You will forget about Generators and Lithium Batteries and all the Bling Airstream Owners like to spend hard earned money upon... this is Survival of the Fittest. Not how much you glow at night in the deep forest.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:54 AM   #43
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No solids on the black tank? Why any liquids then, they are easier to ‘dispose’ in the wild, besides TP flying is not a pleasant sight, no wonder the decoration. From my diving days I remember ‘leave only bubbles and take only memories’, from my sailing days: “leave a clean wake behind”. All else you leave is organic (unless your diet includes petroleum derivatives), but TP to the wind...

I love dog (and horse) smell. I resent the reference with a negative connotation.

Protection from bears? I hope you take at least a 300 Win Max, 9mm Luger only makes the bears mad.

Winter, like the other 3 seasons and everything in between, is for camping. In fact, I go north in winter and south in summer, avoiding the usual crowds the NPs and SPs are just for me and a few other crazies. Nature is the same, century after century and millennia. That means I run my genset and enjoy all the benefits of ‘modern’ life. Otherwise, why not use a tent (as for many years when I was younger)?

You are on a ‘take it or leave it’ rant, just like me, brother.
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:49 AM   #44
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OTG Boondocking: USED can be the BEST OPTION at Any Price!

Vitaver.... Great Post. Keep it up.

Everyone has their priorities. If it works for you, keep doing it until it does not.

Some repeat the same bad techniques and choices their entire lives and believe that it is the only option. It is not.

Members are complaining that their 2021 or 2022 Airstream delivery is set back half a year. If you have to have a NEW unused Airstream and pay more, then... that is not an issue. Be patient.

There are changes in 'the new and improved' Airstreams with their standard equipment that WILL make the OLDER "Boondocking" equipted models more desirable.

The 2014 25 foot International was an outstanding length and had ALL of the OTG Boondocking options as standard. Then add your own Solar, 3 inch Lift and 16 inch Michelins it was the War Wagon on Wheels to go beyond many others. USED with someone inspecting the Airstream from bumper to battery compartment. The B & B Inspection. Worth every dollar if everything is operational. The 25 foot is the BEST compromise in length and easier to sell as a 1/2 ton pickup is just enough to easily tow it and not bottom out the leaf springs. Anything longer... sorry guys... 3/4 ton is in your future.

Our 'last' 2019 27 foot International was on the lot with other 2019's in August 2019. The 2020's were NOT on the Lot, but behind the security fence. ...not available as they wanted to clean out the 2019's that had been sitting around. Ours was a late delivery and manufactured late in 2019. It had 'pretty much' the SAME OPTIONS as our former 25 foot International. The extra length was an added bonus, especially when we decide to part with it in the future... if ever.

The OLD OPTIONS seemed to be getting replaced with electical options for Propane Appliances on new production models. I have not bothered to look at which models, but for OTG Boondocking not practical. We will have to settle with our current Airstream and happy to do so.

A great majority of USED Airstreams spend most of their existence sitting. Finding stock tires on a used 10 year old Airstream might be a hint it has not been used much. Pay a bit more and plan on keeping it for a long time. Much like a 1965 Corvette in the late 1970's could be bought for $1,800 in Wyoming.

We sold our 25 foot as we thought Tent Camping would get us further back into the 'wild areas', but one camping season with two Blue Heelers and two Human Beans in a Tent was an experience to remember. You also are spending Sunset to Sunrise in the Tent as you cannot go outside, or have not reason to sit in a folding chair with the temperatures dropping at 7800 feet. We had transitioned into the Airstream Life... and time to find that ONE PERFECT AIRSTREAM. We now own it.


2019:
- Solar on the Roof, dealer installed part of the purchase, two 80watt on the roof and a 110 watt connected to the batteries leaning against a milk crate portable. 100% charged every DAY.
- We added the 16 Inch wheels, 16 inch Michelins
- ALL Propane appliances.
- Added the Dexter 3 inch lift kit as part of the purchase

2016:

Similar interior as the above. Without the Solar on the Roof. NO 3 inch lift kit. 100% charged every day with the Costco 110watt/or so portable connected to the AGM Batteries. Could easily go to TWO, if needed. It was not.

The interior lights are LED on the later models. Not like the 2006 with bulbs.

Find yourself an Airstream with LED lighting, Solar, 16 inch wheels and Michelin tires. Check out the 'used' for sale model top, bottom, sides, interior, door hinge, propane tanks, batteries... a 100% Airstream PHYSICAL. The money saved is money you can use for future camping trips.

Some interior design really is poorly thought out. Colors. Floor materials. For OTG the eye appeal is for Future Selling your Airstream. We looked at 12 or so Airstream on the lot and some were not appealing. NO 25 foot Globetrotters. It came to two identical from stock equipment 27 foot Internationals. We checked both out and found the one we purchased to be 100%. The purchase date was the final walk through, fully set up and 100%. The solar was added and worked. The lift kit was OOOOOH Weeee Fantastic, 100%. Sold the 15 inch wheels, converted to 16 inch Michelins, Sendel Wheels and 110% happy, happy.

Tweaking the storage compartment in the back for all the dust and rock getting in it. Cabinet doors needing Gorilla Glue... it works. But we are 100% outfitted doing the tweaking learned from two other Airstreams.

USED Airstreams stored inside and taken care of are WORTH more. No one knows a 2016 from a 2019 from outside appearances. Today you may pay more used, but used... varies from one person to another. First Lookers bought our Airstreams as we took them around it and showed everything worked. You can do the same. If you decide to sell it to get a later model Airstream... think twice.

You may not be getting the same package. Sometimes what you have right now, or looking at used... is the best it will be. Think about it and find an Airstream friend to pick out that GEM out there. USED Airstreams sit most of the time. If they are lived Full Time... you can tell. Old like new tires and worn out inside... Really. Pass. Find the Gems. Ours were Gems and others exist.

Many do not want to be lectured about finding that perfect Airstream. I hate to tell you... they also are often getting the wrong trailer that an experienced owner would not even want to own. We are stocking the trailer and planning to start our Summer and Fall camping Season. Will things happen? Maybe. But we are prepared. An electric screw driver is often the best tool after a long drive.
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Old 05-22-2021, 05:08 PM   #45
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Nothing Casual about OTG... it takes Skill and Preparation H

Nancy has the 'hauling check list' on the table for the next one, two...four... five week Adventure.

I tend to wear the same clothes for one, two...four... five weeks. I could keep going until the color of the cloth changes, like the Four Seasons. Yellow to Green to Brown and Dismal bury it all... Winter. No water wasted to clean that worn out clothing.

The ‘good list’ is four pages long. Lots of stuff. If you were a Boy Scout on a camping trip... a flash light was a must have. Maybe three pounds of salted unshelled peanuts. Presto... done and light to carry. A week camping, prepared and satisified. Bury the shells when possible.

Camping during Spring is tough. Winter is not an option. Spring is iffy. Summer hot and too short. You could have save a lot of money not buying the Airstream had you thought this out and stayed home watching television commercials. Otherwise continue...

Broken in warm weather attire evolves into needing long pants, long sleeved shirt and light jacket. The jacket having the zipper that has not worked for a decade. Also the fit is a bit unusual, but I wander. The denim pants does not zip as well, so a Clothes Pin can do the job, if needed.

I may leave the jacket at the next Service Station rest room door hook on a trip, anyways. Insert a set mouse trap into the pocket... just testing honesty.

The trees do not care what you wear. The wildlife does not care. I do not care. The two Blue Heelers do not care. People that drive by do not care. You probably can tell how this is going. I do not replace my shovels if they get dirty, either. The shovel and clothing both get thin over time. I can see through some of my socks. When the big toe sticks out... into the trash they go. If one is still useful, I match them with another orphan sock. Color differences do not matter. I have already covered the list of those who do not care. OK? Get with it.

A hat with a Golf Course name printed on the front? What does that suppose to mean? It gives me a headache. Try a hat with Rome, n.y. on the front. Fools them every time. Speak with an accent... they will love to hear about your trip.

Much like Road Kill sitting in the Sun for five days, Nancy will swap out my grey shorts and grey Cartheart tee shirt, with the pocket, so I can stash Dog Treats to disperse later. They are rather bland, I say.

Often in areas without Cell Phone, Emergency Room access, lots of unknown insects, reptiles and mammals wandering around to discover the odor of Bacon would be enough to force many to leave after 24 hours. I like telling stories around the Camp Fire, at 10PM Mountain Time, of course... with a group of Newbies and keep seeing and hearing things moving about... glowing eyes and all... just out of everyone's blurry vision.

...Whoa... smell that? Grizz for sure.

Well... not for sure, as I would have left right after smelling Grizz.

Newbies will lock their Airstream door to keep insects, reptiles and mammals from entering. Just makes it difficult to EXIT when something or other comes through the open window. I know most of you lock the door. I test them. It is a good way to know who believes the stories about insects, reptiles and mammals.

YOUR First couple OTG trips will determine what you did not bring. Some of you I have met. For those I have met and camped with, give it a year's worth of planning ahead, before considering going OTG with me, Nancy and the two Blue Heelers. I do not loan finger nail clippers or a left shoe to anyone. I am right handed.

Thus the... LISTs. Simple items can create Big Problems. No reading glasses? No problem. State Highway Maps need a magnifying glass anyways, glasses or not. All roads lead you somewhere. Get over it. Just know what direction you live from where you ended up camping. If you forget where you live, you probably are following us and will not care anyways.

I am sure this has helped somone rethink why they even purchased a Trailer. A sleeping bag is more than enough. If you expect rain... insert sleeping bag into a garbage bag to shed water. OTG Skill and Preparation H at work.

As you might tell... Dinner is cooking and I am avoiding pacing, as I am packed and ready to leave electricity, natural gas, flushing toilets and a shower in the rear view mirrors. My mirrors extend, if you like to know.

I do have a place in mind where we are going. I just do not know WHY. It was in a Fortune Cookie. I swallowed the evidence. Disneyland was not where I wanted to go anyways. Been there, done that.

Enjoy your peace and quiet. I am in my own World any time I choose. For awhile we will be among the Human Beans. Some may have flash lights. Never can tell. Bury the shells, not the peanuts. OK.

I want ALL of you to have a wonderful Season... even if you forgot where you were going. It matters little. Make No Plans. Never be disappointed. Go and be well.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:35 AM   #46
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Issues with finding good dispersed/primitive/OTG camping we face. 1) Finding those are worth visiting. There is plenty of land where is legal and available, but unless it has a body of water, great views or valued for the hunting/fishing/counting birds opportunities one seeks, the middle of ‘nowhere’ does not appeal to us. 2) Finding it, period. The MVUM Show ‘roads’ that are often disconnected from ‘normal’ roads that allow one to get there. Would hate to get stuck far away from any form of help (rescue?) to get out. 3) Although topo maps come together in layers with the Forest Service, BLM, Army Corps and the like, one has to be really good at understanding them (not me) as those roads seem to have grades (grading/climbs/drops) that may be just too much for many of us. I use Garmin Drive, Overlander, InReach, Gaia GPS on the iPad Pro and RVTripwizard, and a sat phone (nostalgic of my days sailing) it is not for lack of tools and interest. If anyone has the magic wand, please share it, I promise we won’t camp next to you . Oh, have also Allstays but did not get to try it yet.
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:57 AM   #47
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Vitaver understands... Boondocking for Free is... Trial and Error

Vitaver... you are correct in understanding that Great Boondocking Locations are few, once conditions of preferences are added to the X on a map.

I did several Adventures taking Airstream Owners to areas that they may have never been or never would have had the years to discover. An opportunity to be 'guided' exactly to spots that Nancy and I discovered over 15 years of towing.

Also a lifetime of tent camping that a trailer cannot travel but a trailer can skirt the edges and you hike into the area.

Most Newbies were expecting lush manicured lawns, snow capped mountains in the distance, geysers, active volcanoes, exotic wildlife in the area and a spokesman from the local travel and tourism bureau to guide them to sights beyond the campsite. Wet Bar at a log cabin, flushing toilets, no insects... OK, everyone reading this is catching on.

These are called National Parks and National Recreation Areas. The 'exotic' animals are fenced into an area. Some brought into the area and others taken out when there are too many.

We have walked into areas that NO early loggers had pot hunted the obvious ancient Indian Sites in their Free Time 80 to 120 years ago... and we would find some untouched and no doubt unknown to everyone... but us. We do not GPS the site nor tell anyone. Best left out in the wilderness as we found it. That is the THRILL of Discovery. Many have never discovered anything other than signs to a pile of loose rock... a Mimbres Indian Site... with a paved sidewalk.

Most unique sights and scenery have been off limits for random visitors for decades, if not a hundred years. Yellowstone Park required to have vehicles inspected and two or three spare tires before they could enter the Park. Dirt roads and mostly tent campers.

I have a bookcases full of United States Geological Survey Bulletins, Professional Papers, Annual Reports, Map Folios, printed from the 1860's to the 1970's. These 'unique locations' were found before roads were available. Often the Native Americans guided the Geologists into areas that the new observers would have no idea existed.

The Grand Canyon was floated by USGS Powell for the Second Time. The First Time was a guy who fell into the Colorado and took time to the exit. It is written in a paper I gave to the Colorado School of Mines. By the time he traded clothing and items on himself... he was practically NUDE and lived where he exited. This is never offered up. I should have kept the paper from a St. Louis college... story.

Finding terrible locations is 100% on 'public lands'.
Finding fair locations you have a 50%+ depending on what you already knew in advance.
Finding excellent locations like the Adventures I took out... 25% or LESS.

Wyoming calls people looking for Yellowstone Park and the Grand Tetons in the Red Desert... Ya Hoos. (Yah Who's). Well called me when I was 15 and exploring the Rockies.

These photos you find in a book or magazine... could be taken across the paved road in front of a Five Star Hotel. Think I am kidding... nope. True.

I could write a book... but nobody wants to research possible Wonderful Possibilities. They want someone else to provide the details, what kind of fly to use to fish the creek/stream/river and the GPS location and elevation, weather and are the roads gravel, packed dirt or two rut.

I know. I did this. We mark every site on a map and comment. Most "Nice campsite. Nothing to do." That is how it works. It is difficult even in the Rocky Mountain States with large Public Areas... most, 75% are open to ALL but having nothing to offer but, wind, dust, prickly pear, rock and 2% humidity.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:57 AM   #48
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Arches National Monument: Utah

Arches National Monument and Moab, Utah.

Hot.

Crowded. Closes early due to over capacity. Good luck.

Road work through town may be finished. Otherwsie, chaos. Need fuel? Get it on the south end of town. Not in the Center of town where people will block you and your trailer in tow to enter or exit.

An option. Yellow Cat Flat. Off of Highway 70, exit 193 and go South towards... Arches National Monument. You can hike as much as you like in seclusion. You may even find yourself looking into Arches... and be Off the Grid Boondocking on public land access to acres of parking and rarely any other company with the area so large.

Yellow Cat... was mined for Radioactive Minerals. You can research that. Agate is found scattered about to pick some up if interested.

Free looking at Arches. The NorthEast part which is the... better part of the Park.

Is this printed in local guides, newspapers or guide books? Not to my knowledge.

There is also access to the Colorado River from Highway 70 and Highway 128 to the southeast. Desert country. Hot... like Moab and Arches. Agate to be found. No trees... as Arches.

No facilities. No people. No crowds. Why? Cause it is not known and only those who are agile and can take some physical activity to get to see what those AT ARCHES... do not.

There are no signs with arrows to point out points of interest. You find them by looking around.

Elevation is around 5,000 feet. Area near the Colorado River, 4300 feet. HOT days and cool evenings.

West of Monticello, Utah is some high elevation campsites for SMART Campers, like yourself. The road goes through town and goes straight up the mountains. Excellent and you can see the entire HOT Valley at some places in COOL air at 8,420 feet. Stay a few days. Explore the paved road yourself.

If you find your Arches visit impossible to park your Airstream, drive to the entrance to be turned around... Yellow Cat.

Radiation is everywhere in the West. We have OTG Camped at Yellow Cat. There are also some OTG spots to the WEST along the north side of I-70. If you cannot find them... that is for you to discover. Look for trailers among the scant trees before you get to the exit. If you miss the exit, write down the number, find the next, turn around. Then after taking a deep breath... follow the paved road down into the Canyon and be... surprised. Archaeology and places to sit back and go Aaaaaaah... No tourists, only SMART OTG opportunities to get real experiences, not led around like a Donkey on a sidewalk with signs explaining... "This is an Arch".

Now you figure it out the rest. Today... a camper caused a forest fire south of Moab. Another example of why you need to have OPTIONS. Now YOU DO. Enjoy. Tell us if you survived, or not and how you did manage the HOT and the lack of crowds.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:30 AM   #49
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Thank you HB. There is an area south of Bighorn National Forest, Meadow Lark Lake that appears interesting for OTG camping, with several trails legal to travel on the MVUM charts, lake-side. Any experience/idea about it? Besides seeking peace and space, I can let my GSD (German Shepherd Dog) lose to explore as she (they all canines) did for 2M years before the ‘keep your dog on a leash’ signs proliferated most everywhere. (Pic shows when Sigrid won 1st in breed in a European dog show, 2 years ago)
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:46 AM   #50
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Big Horn Mountains: SNOW Covered last week

Bring a Snow Sled and an extra dog. We saw the entire Big Horn Range coming out of the Black Hills, which had no snow, only trees.

Thalweg lives in the Snow Belt just below the peaks. They add Maple Syrup and have Snow Ball Pies every day.

You better hold off until July. Call the Chamber of Commerce... tell them you know Thalweg. They may give you directions of 'where to go yourself'.

Friends in the High Country of Colorado say the same. Snow...but it is melting. Messes up the fly fishing, as well.

I like the flowers. Are they fake or from Buffalo, Wyoming... the State's Flower Capital... I hear. Just below the Big Horns... the Baby Horns.
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