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billrector · 01-09-2018, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxite

There's this little thing called "sarcasm", Bill...

Sometimes it's missed when we're in a hurry to say our say instead of thinking about it....

Sarcasm accepted!

Thalweg · 01-09-2018, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMH25TWIN

IM SO CONFUSED,
This was a timely forum for me as I just ordered several “boondocking books” as I’d like to take better advantage of public lands; I don’t especially enjoy trailer parks with swing sets. I’ve always been nervous about trespassing when out fly fishing, cycling, and camping. I know there will be those who say it is my responsibility to know the rules; and as threads above, to go to this office or that, or know the maps, to determine access; and I get that. But it is all a little intimidating. I’d really like to get “out there” but is it really all that hard. My recently acquired boondocking resources cover water and electricity conservation but fall way short of informing as to legal and ‘polite’ access. I certainly don’t want to trespass, or have a run-in with some rancher, but I also don’t want to just sit at home and stare at my Airstream. I know this reads as venting, but the subject is genuinely challenging, especially for one who wants to play by the rules. Thanks for reading.

We've hashed this out many times over the years, and instead of rehashing it, I'd encourage you to look at some older threads. Some of the best in recent years were threads started by Ray Eklund. I'm sure many of us would be happy to help you on specifics, but there is already great info available.

Search and ye shall find.

Ray Eklund · 01-09-2018, 09:39 PM

Thalweg is being kind.

Some of my Threads are to stimulate conversation and thought. At times, I should have given it more thought, before I added any stimulation to the conversation.

Much like this Thread, a common misunderstanding of appearing to you, to be your Public Land, becoming, instantly Private Property to the one who is the owner.

If Thalweg or I, when in Wyoming, stop at a place we are not sure if it is Public Land or Private... time will soon tell. If the dust plume behind a pickup is coming towards and not away from you., it is may be time to turn yourself around and... appear lost.

The locals will look at one thing. Your license plate. If you are 'In State' and not of the same county, it could be touchy and can go one way or the other.

If you are Out of State, which State? Some are less special, than others.

Although... if you appear lost, from out of state... and politely ask for directions out... with humility, as you are in the wrong, it just might work out. Miracles do happen in the West. Not for all... but to those of us who understand.

xrvr · 01-10-2018, 04:07 AM

Interesting.those who would abuse public property are the same ones who do not respect private property rights. Good boondocking practice take both into consideration.

CCWilson1 · 01-10-2018, 11:50 AM

I am new to this forum, so hopefully you will forgive me for pointing out the elephant in the room. Although we are one of you, my wife and I couldn't help but laugh at the irony of a group of people who drive one ton duallies that may get ten miles per gallon while towing five to ten thousand pound trailers full of televisions, stereos, ovens, bathrooms, and living room furniture complaining about the methods of the companies that supply that precious fuel that keeps us mobile. (I'm sure the diesel owners will say they get better mileage.) I realize the complaint is about loss of access, but it still struck us as funny.

Countryboy59 · 01-10-2018, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCWilson1

I am new to this forum, so hopefully you will forgive me for pointing out the elephant in the room. Although we are one of you, my wife and I couldn't help but laugh at the irony of a group of people who drive one ton duallies that may get ten miles per gallon while towing five to ten thousand pound trailers full of televisions, stereos, ovens, bathrooms, and living room furniture complaining about the methods of the companies that supply that precious fuel that keeps us mobile. (I'm sure the diesel owners will say they get better mileage.) I realize the complaint is about loss of access, but it still struck us as funny.

Maybe they would feel better if we grew a giant bureaucracy to manage all this vacant land, and imported our oil.

Boxite · 01-10-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumatic

So if I'm merrily rowing my Airstream down your stream and it sinks to the bottom I am then tresspassing.

It now belongs to me and I'll call that an "aritificial reef for large-mouth bass"!

Fred L · 01-10-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumatic

BTW/ When I have crossed private land I have always checked it was OK to do so and leave gates closed or open as I found them. I have also been told that unless land is posted it is OK to enter. Is this correct?

Folks this is a state by state issue, so a blanket yes or no just doesn't apply.
I only know this as a hunter (and have never been to Mississippi..) but legally one can access private lands that are not posted "in some states".

I always make it a practice to stop by the nearest home or farm and introduce myself and ask if it is their property and if it is ok to hunt. If no one answers, I leave a note with my name and phone number. I have met some wonderful folks doing this, sometimes better memories than the hunt. Each state has different laws about what constitutes trespassing.

Mollysdad · 01-10-2018, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumatic

Other than National Parks and Monuments, state land and Indian land what other kind of public land is there besides BLM? Looking at most maps all I see other than private land is BLM. The keyword here is public.

I don't like the idea that the BLM "owns" the land. Or even decides how it's used.

Matt Kline · 01-10-2018, 06:02 PM

Signs say "Day use only."

Matt Kline · 01-10-2018, 06:05 PM

I was on BLM land that people have been camping on for years. As I was leaving I flagged down a Jeep going in. He was planning to bring his Boy Scouts to camp there that weekend. He was a local and also had camped there before.

Matt Kline · 01-10-2018, 06:12 PM

Why do you accuse me of bias? I happily worked for Charles Koch for twenty five years. He's about as big oil as you can get. Why do these threads often become personal?
I've been camping in Utah for over ten years. This was the first time I ever went to BLM land, where I had camped previously, and was confronted with signs outlawing camping. "Day use only" is what the signs say.

xrvr · 01-11-2018, 05:01 AM

Some of thise statements are just not true!

Thalweg · 01-11-2018, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Kline

I don't have the exact source. I Googled to get info and $1.50 per acre comes to mind. We got $2,500 an acre for some land we have rights to in Texas.
I've gotten hammered on this thread as if I'm some kind of "Big Oil" hater. Funny, I worked for Charles Koch (Flint Hills Resources) for twenty five years, he paid for my degree, and I loved working for him.
My bitch isn't against "big oil." My bitch is against politicians who make themselves rich pulling off such stunts as this "leasing for pennies," OUR land.

In my career, I have helped process several thousand oil and gas wells. I have never witnessed any pressure or direction from any political figure. There has been a rare question from a congressional representative. But those have clearly been issues where they are being questioned by a constituent, and they are following up. That's their job. We have always explained the reasoning for why something was the way it was, and they always respond with "okay, thank you". Prices for right of ways, and royalty rates for minerals are set numbers. They don't change. The only way to change them is to go through congress, and we've all seen how difficult it is to get anything through congress. Any monies raised go directly to the treasury. Anyone who is involved in the process is not allowed to have any investment or stocks in any company that works in oil and gas. We can't participate in anything that would give the appearance of a conflict of interest. My point is that I just don't see any way for anyone in the government to "get rich by leasing OUR land". It's a huge misconception.

Oil and gas operators are taking a huge risk with every well. These large horizontal wells cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, and oftentimes they are a "duster". They won't produce oil. Just to bring in a project to the BLM they have to pony up $9,610 per well, and it's not uncommon to see projects come in with 100 or more wells. That's a lot of money, and there's always a risk that the well won't be approved. The BLM doesn't give refunds either. These fees alone are enough to keep some smaller operators from participating in the play.

All of this information is publicly available. The only thing we're not allowed to divulge are operators geologic analyses which are considered proprietary. They spend a lot on seismic studies, and they don't want their competitors to have their information. Fair enough. I truly wish many in the public would take the time to actually research the facts. A random Google search may give you the facts, but it will also give a lot of "fake facts". It takes a little effort to filter through all of the information. Many of these misconceptions could be avoided.

GettinAway · 01-11-2018, 06:21 AM

This thread has deteriorated to emotions and assumptions, a least from one side. It was pretty civil there for a while. I did see one post where someone thought people that abuse public property are the same ones who don't respect private property. Where in the heck did that come from?
I don't recall anyone advocating abuse of public property. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.

xrvr · 01-11-2018, 06:31 AM

People who use blm camping areas and trash them are the minority, these same people will trash a private cg if given the oportunity.. We are our worse enemy as campers. Some say using blm land for grazing is abuse, ithers say opening it up tp public use leads toabuse of the land..

GettinAway · 01-11-2018, 06:45 AM

People that trash any campground are a pretty small minority. I don't see many trashed campsites in public or private campgrounds.
It's almost like calling a poacher a hunter. Different species..

Fred L · 01-11-2018, 07:34 AM

I always have a personal rule of doing my best to leave a place better than I found it. That was a lesson taught to me years ago on my first camping trip with boyscouts, ie to police the area and douse the fire.

Disappointed to see someone feel compelled to throw emotional-political bias in (to what is a very informative thread or could be) but I am sadly becoming numb and accustomed to it.
PS, I just figured out how to use the ignore feature here, sadly.

markdoane · 01-11-2018, 08:10 AM

Informational post:

A few posts have been deleted in this thread because they discuss politics or politicians.

A few other posts have been deleted because they quoted previous posts that were deleted.

Save yourselves from unnecessary typing by refraining from making comments about politics.

Ray Eklund · 01-11-2018, 08:12 AM

The conversation has changed a bit, but I still have no clue where this BLM site is located, for my own checking statements made and finding facts. The original post should have provided more information so, we as a group, can understand.

The American Indian were no more concerned about leaving trash and garbage on their seasonal travels than some campers today.

Today, these are protected sites that are excavated by Universities to understand what these, now artifacts, tell us about how they lived. Some of us on the New Mexico and Wyoming Boondocking Adventures found their TRASH everywhere in the form of Ruins, scattered piles of broken pottery and razor sharp flakes of obsidian, opals and agates.

So, lets get off the modern trash. It is not as bad as some describe. More trash is right along the Highways. A thousand years from now our City Dumps will be protected from... LOOTERS.

Already there are people who are studying discarded old Cans in the West. There are books on identifying the age a particular time a can was made. I have some from the 1850's to 1870's. Ranchers know an 'old can' from a 'modern can'. I have an excellent collection of square nails from the 1860's Union Pacific from one Ranch. Discarded as trash in 1867 and in the two rut roads.

Indians use to burn off prairie grass so the Spring brought fresh grass and the Buffalo next season.

If schools taught us more about real history, we would all benefit. Ignorance is a terrible thing. Like Little Big Man... "I see their dump. Where's the Village?"