100% Self Sustained Power - HELP!

[AirMiles]

Great post Kscherzi. Water is a limiting factor while boondocking. On our 10 week trip, my wife and I averaged 4 gallons each of grey and black water per day. We took "military" showers daily and conserved water where possible. We could stay in one place for up to 10 days by occasionally adding 6 gallons to our fresh water tank from a jug we filled when sightseeing. Our Airstream has approximately 40 gallons of fresh water, 40 gallons of black water and 40 gallons of grey water. I believe a 22' has smaller tanks which will be a limiting factor while boondocking.

[ROBERT CROSS]

A shower boon docking...really. Camp at a lake. 😂
2 peep's, 10 days, Honda 'bout 1hr/day. 👍

Bob
🇺🇸

[Troutboy]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

A shower boon docking...really. Camp at a lake. [emoji23]

2 peep's, 10 days, Honda 'bout 1hr/day. [emoji106]



Bob

[emoji631]

Looks awesome, my kinda place!

[InterBlog]

Lake camping makes a lot of problems go away. Especially if one owns the property, such that there are few limits on its use. We set up a little area for an outdoor Sea to Summit Pocket Shower, and use a Kelly Kettle to boil lake water for various other uses. We also have 300 watts of solar and a 300 amp hour lithium battery in our van.

At this point, I'm not sure what we are physically limited by. We act like we are food-limited and tend to go to the grocery store once a week. But if we were willing to eat less fresh food and more preserved stuff, we could stretch the off-grid time out to several weeks.

And if we are making a 50-mile round trip to the g-store, we also dump the tanks, because why not?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Looks awesome, my kinda place!

Piseco Lake Adirondack State Park.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Len n Jeanne]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Fresh water storage is the biggest limiting factor to "in the wild" camping. Showers and dishes the biggest culprits. My trailer carries 36 gallons and the two of us can stretch it to about five days max To go longer would mean skipping showers and using lots of paper plates and dinnerware.

The two battery setup normally wired into Airstream's will never power a AC, suffer badly if asked to power a small microwave or coffee maker, are fine for recharging laptops and cell phones. You need the batteries to operate the fridge on propane, the water heater, furnace, and lights. Asking for more is asking for problems.

I have 400 watts solar and two 6 volt Trojan batteries. There are days in the winter, clouds, trees, where even this setup cannot keep up with demand. I make coffee by boiling water in a teapot and then into to a pour over drip maker. No electricity needed.

Agreed.

For off-grid desert camping we bring a couple of sturdy jerry cans of water plus a big funnel. We also do drip coffee, with a collapsible cone from REI and filter papers. It drips into a thermos, to stay nice and hot without electricity.

We also focus on meals that don't take a lot of battery power and propane to cook, notably when outdoor grilling isn't feasible.

If privacy and temperatures permit, try the outdoor shower. Saves on the gray water tank.

[Ray Eklund]

Costco 100w portable Solar attached to two inexpensive Interstate wet cell batteries. Everything worked fine in the remote Apache and Gila National Forests, NM.

We purchased our Airstreams to get away from all of these luxuries of home, so we could appreciate them upon our return. Our time spent INSIDE our Airstream is from Sunset to Sunrise for rest and relaxation from a day of exploring the outdoors. Not watching televsion and taking daily showers. Our Blue Heelers can find us a mile away in the Forest, if they are down wind. Humans have been doing this until... generators and solar panels existed.

We will be upgrading to a Cabin, sooner than later. The hunt is the fun part.

Put your money where it will not depreciate. Real Estate on a foundation will perform much better than a solar home on wheels.

Took us 12 years to figure it out. Life is short.

pteck Post #9... 100%...

Going from full timing Airstream to a house... easy.

Going from a house to an Airstream full time... nearly impossible. Jen... can, but only she knows how she did it.

[hendy]

I go off-grid. Burningman is one place, and there are others.


You can make energy and store energy. The big sources have to be curtailed somehow, either through active conservation, or by low-power sources.



I've run for quite sometime based on solar to charge 12v deep cell batteries, and when necessary, running the big hog, AC, on a genset. I have a 2200W generator (not unlike the Honda EU2200) which is quiet and fuel-efficient.


There are two 150w cheap Chinese panels, and four deep cells, which can be be pre-charged. I run the fridge off propane, and heat food the same way. Water comes in 5gal plastic jerry cans (many alternatives here). The dark/grey water tank use can be very highly confined if you bathe efficiently, or outdoors. If you're using a dishwasher, give it up now-- it's an energy and resource hog.



You'll need to carry and store fuels (extra propane, gasoline) and their weight and safety are concerning, but manageable depending on your tow vehicle and overall weight.



If you re-imagine your camper as a tent, and what you might bring on a six day hike, then the creature comforts you need become diminished. I giggle when I walk into an AS that has a 72" sat-fed 4K TV. This is not an RV, it's an aluminum home on wheels. I do admire the amazing AS and various coaches that I've seen, but that's not what we use our ancient 1973 Argosy for, instead, it's for being far away from civilization with a rational set of resources to shelter us when in nature, or the Black Rock Desert.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The very simple answer to this is - forget about the AC. Once you drop that out of the equation, things become *much* easier. The AS is mobile. You don't have to be stuck in one place / one region. Even in mid August, there *is* someplace where you can sleep nights without the AC running. In the day ... that's when you are out and about.

It's not a perfect solution, but there are no perfect solutions in real live. One gotcha, after a few weeks of running this way, you will tend to reach for a parka when going into a restaurant. Your internal thermostat will have adjusted to a far more natural temperature range ....

Indeed water *is* a limiting factor as others have noted. There are *lots* of threads on minimizing water use. Don't go to crazy looking at people's "we go 23 days on our tanks" posts. The tank sizes in a 22' Sport are very different than the tanks on a 30' trailer.

Bob

[Tony Lee]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

Boaters who need to be self sufficient usually have a combination of solar and wind power. If you are going to be in the same location for long periods of time it would be fairly easy to add 400 watts of wind power - which is also less expensive than solar.]

That 400 watts will only be realised when wind speed is way beyind comfortable. If it were that simple, these little turbines would be far more popular than they are. (are they less expensive than solar per watt produced?)

As for the OPs aims. If you want to get half way ti fully self contained thenbuy a 40 foot motorhome and cover the entire roof with solar panels and then add a generator to run the aircon. Despite what some claim, lithium batteries do not generate their own power, so they still need to be refilled from external sources.

[farafield]

From what I am understanding (not an expert yet!) another thing to consider is that if you are relying on lots of batteries and you run them down too much, you will find yourself replacing them more frequently. Not good for the pocketbook, not good for the environment.

[gregwall]

Having similar desires as our original poster, I had an expensive system installed by Lew Farber in Naples, and I love it. I can only run the air conditioner for an hour or so, but that can be wonderful when stopping for lunch in the summer. It gives us the freedom to camp in National Forests and less crowded areas. Even when power is available, I only plug in when using the oven for an hour or when we need AC. This also avoids the whole issue of campground power surges. Even when we have no sun, the batteries are good for about five days. You can take the batteries down to 20%. It is nice to be able to charge my laptop or for Martha to use her hair dryer. With an app (Victron Connect) on the iPhone, it is educational to see how much power certain devices use. LED lights and ceiling fans don't use very much. I just put dimmers on the reading lights because they are too bright, but they will burn a little less power. Monday we set out for Michigan for 3 weeks. I asked Martha to look for sunny sites since we want the heat as well as the solar. On a recent trip down the Middle Fork of the Salmon River I was amazed at what our guides could do with dutch ovens, so I am going to try learn those skills. That can easily bypass using the Airstream oven, which burns about 140 amps.

[Zeronet]

I installed 4 flexible 100w panels on the roof of my trailer in January. After 3 months one had failed and I got a warranty replacement which I installed. By July two more panels had failed. So after 6 months only one of the original 4 panels was working. Replaced all with rigid Renogy panels. They are more efficient in low light and when partially shaded. We’ll see how they perform over time.

Have heard many others with failing flexible panels. I would strongly steer away from them.

[XpeditionsTV]

You certainly can power up all the equipment you're thinking about. The Wynn's have done this and what they are doing is also a template for Kathy and I as we ade into this deeper. It looks costly and likely is. But, to be completely off the grip requires you invest.

The link I'm providing is from their newer adventures on a Catamaran. However, these folks spent 7 years in an RV and perfected what they needed. The thing is, you can learn from these folks! We certainly have : )

One additional item - If you look you'll find where they experimented with flat vs. flexible solar cells. My take on their experience was that the flexible ones were easily scratched due to the plastic used instead of the glass. That said, I am thinking flexible as well...

Take a look...
https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/sailing
(Look for "Off he Grid")

Incidentally, there is so much great information - and adventure - within these videos!

I hope this helps you...

Best Wishes
Jerry and Kathy Wills

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The roof area on a 22’ Sport is a bit less than the area on a 45’ fifth wheel. Putting 1200W of panels on the big guy is doable putting that much on a 22’ would involve multiple outriggers. Doing that will involve a new frame for the trailer and new axles....

So yes, for a few hundred thou we can get working on that right away 😀

There is also the weight of 800AH of batteries and the space they take up. You didn’t want to sleep in the trailer did you?......

Simple math:

AC pulls about 1.5 KW best case when running. In Texas today in the sun, the AC has not yet shut down. That is 9 hours of total 100% run time so far. A 100% efficient system with perfect sun angle and 1200W of panels would loose 300W every hour...... (yes I have two AC units they both are running....)

You are not going to get much solar once the sun sets. You still will be running the AC....

Bob

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

That 400 watts will only be realised when wind speed is way beyind comfortable. If it were that simple, these little turbines would be far more popular than they are. (are they less expensive than solar per watt produced?)

...

The wind turbine will start producing power at wind speeds of 7 mph and produce maximum power before it shuts down at wind speeds greater than 45 mph and will produce power at speeds in between 24 hours per day, rain or shine. Whereas solar panels will only produce power during daylight and their efficiency is variable with time of day, shading, angle to the sun, etc., etc..

On the face it seems that the wind turbine could be more cost effective depending on winds.

As the OP indicated wind power would not work for him as he will be moving locations. The turbine would work well if he were staying in a stationary location.

The 400 watt wind turbine system linked is listed at around US$500, whereas 400 watt solar system is listed at the same retailer for around US$579.

The wind turbine will start producing power at wind speeds of 7 mph and shut down at wind speeds greater than 45 mph and will produce power at speeds in between 24 hours per day. Solar panels will only produce power during daylight and their efficiency is variable with time of day.

On the face it seems that the wind turbine could be more cost effective depending on winds.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Solar will only produce power while the sun is out. (it comes up on a fairly regular basis). Turbines only produce power when the wind is blowing ( it tends to come and go ). Unless you live in a very unusual location, neither one is a "100% 24 hour a day" solution.

If the turbine produces 400W at 30 mhp wind, it likely is down in the 100W range at 7 mph. Probably better to call it a 200W unit (it's rating at 12 MPH) than a 400W. The >32 mph level is getting into a force 7 / gale force wind. That's not something you will run into very often.

If you take a look at the manual for the turbine, they suggest mounting it at least 20 feet above any local obstructions. In a normal camping area that is a pretty good sized tower. Unlike the turbine, the tower does not shut and self protect in a strong blow. If you *are* in an area with a lot of wind, the tower will be a non-trivial bit of work to put up.

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

....and 17lb requires a pretty substantial pole, which weighs? Stores?
I have a telescoping flag pole, strong but tapered, didn't trust it.
I considered the turbine, but not for long. 😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you ever have spent time putting up towers for mounting antennas .... every so often things go wrong. The "I thought *you* had that guy rope" conversation is not unknown. I've .... errr ... had it on several occasions.

Having the tower / turbine come down on top of your ( previously un-dented ) AS or TV is very much going to ruin your day ....

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Here's a fun one:

If hurricane Florence goes right over you ( = Wilmington NC) your turbine will cut out (wind over 45 MPH) for just over a day. If it misses you by a little bit ( = Myrtle Beach SC) it will cut out for about 8 hours. A wider miss ( Charleston SC) means that you only hit a bit over 20 MPH for < 1 day.

A 400W solar will likely give you 400W each day / ever day out in the sun (unless it's snowing). In the shade ... not so much. How often is "likely?", that obviously depends a lot on where you are. In south Texas ... > 90% of the time. A 400W wind turbine is *far* less likely to give you 400W outside of a mountain top location. Even at the 200W level on the turbine, you are under 50% of the days in most locations.

Bob