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Old 03-07-2006, 09:19 AM   #1
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which size rivet?

I'm about to do a couple of patches on my roof with pieces of alnminium. Which size pop rivet should I use? Also, what adhesive works best?
thanks!
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:37 AM   #2
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jlandau

Pop rivets are never used on the roof.

The correct roof rivet is called "Olympic".

Also adhesive is not used to seal rivets.

You can use Parbond or vulkem as a sealer.

There are many posts in this site about riveting.

Andy
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:47 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
There are many posts in this site about riveting.
... if you search on rivet there were at least 2 posts over the last weekend. Best wishes and welcome from the friendliest group on the web!
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:49 AM   #4
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Correct Drill bit sizes

jlandau

The correct drill bit sizes for the three different size rivets that Airstream uses are:

# 30 for 1/8 rivets.

# 21 for 5/32 rivets, including Olympic rivets

# 11 for 3/16 rivets.

DO NOT use a # 20 drill bit for Olympic rivets, as that is a double oversize.

A Olympic rivet is .15625" in diameter.
A # 21 drill bit is .159"
A # 20 drill bit is .161"

The # 20 hole promotes sheet metal movement, "AND" water leaks, since it is larger than necessary.

"DO NOT USE" any fractional or letter size drill bits.

Andy
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:50 PM   #5
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Where are the various sizes located? I am working on the inside of a 1967 Argosy. The #30 bit seems to fit but I could probably use a smaller e.g. 5/32?
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:06 PM   #6
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LRPorter

A # 30 is an oversize 1/8, not a 5/32".

Generally speaking, the # 30 is used inside and on the outside moldings.

The # 21 is used for the exterior sheetmetal.

The # 11 is used for the underbelly.

Andy
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:31 PM   #7
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Andy,

Just purchased a few rooflocker and cabinet latches from ya. Now do I use a #30 drill bit to extract the existing rivets that are holding the broken latches in place? Also what size rivets do I use to install the new latches?
The rooflocker has also broken free of the L-bar that holds it to the roof. Which drill and rivet size is needed for this repair?

And lastly underneath the AS one of the panels is hanging off. Some of the rivets are holding it in place some have failed. Once again which rivet size and what drill bit size are needed.

This is for a 68 Caravel. This is probably real common sense stuff but I never owned or repaired an AS before, and I want to do it right the first time.

Thanks

Peter
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:39 PM   #8
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Peter.

Use a # 30 drill bit to remove the old roof locker latch rivets. Then reinstall the new roof locker latches with 1/8 inch pop rivets.

Reinstall the roof locker with more 1/8" pop rivets than Airstream used.

Reinstall the under belly with large head 3/16" pop rivets.

You have also pointed out the need to have the running gear balanced.

Both failure that you are talking about are due to vibration when the trailer is in motion.

Additionally, you might also check the axle out. If it has failed, it also will contribute very heavily to punishing the shell, the compnents mounted to the shell, as well as the chassis.

Andy
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:54 PM   #9
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Andy,

Thanks alot, feeling alot more confident now.

After reading several theads it seem that old or poor tires,shock, and axels attribute to rivet problems. Trouble being after bringing the AS to a local mechanic he had no idea if the axel was shot or if it was fine. How do you tell if it needs replacing. I have put new tires on her already. I do plan on getting here on the road quite a bit.

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:58 PM   #10
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Axel photos

Andy,

Here are few pics of my axel.

Does this look as bad as I thinks it does?

Peter
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:59 PM   #11
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Peter.

There is an article in our web site that will answer your questions as well as teach you how to check your axle out, your self, in about 15 seconds.

Go to inlandrv.com

Click on article. Then click on the Dura-torque axle article.

Your correct, in that most owners as well as most RV mechanics, have no idea how to check out a torsion axle.

Have fun.

Andy
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:01 PM   #12
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Peter.

If your trailer is load for travel, then your axle is borderline.

If your trailer is empty, the axle is gone.

Andy
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:02 PM   #13
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Thank you sir.

She's empty in the photos.

Much appreciated

Peter
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:59 PM   #14
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Andy,

Okay, I found a swivel head riveter.

Now after looking at the rivets to buy they come in various sizes,

ie 1/8 X 1/8
1/8 X 1/4
1/8 X 1/2

some long, some short


and so on. which do I need for the latches and cabinets?

Also do I need steel, aluminium, or stainless steel? I figure stainless for under the AS, but which for the interior?

Thanks again, and I guess I will be in touch soon enough for a new axel!!

Peter
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Old 03-10-2006, 11:03 AM   #15
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Peter.

Get some of each size. You will always need them. Moreso the 1/4 and 1/2 inch size. Remember, the length is "grip length" and not physical size. A 1/4" grip range is more like 5/16 to 3/8".

Use "aluminum" rivets ONLY.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:59 PM   #16
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Are Olympic rivets all the same diameter? Is there one single type to purchase. I looked online and there seem to be many types available. I'm assuming one should buy a variety of lengths.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
"DO NOT USE" any fractional or letter size drill bits.
This one I'd like to understand.

Looking at recommended bits vs rivet size:
#30 (.128) for 1/8 (.125) rivets.
#21 (.159) for 5/32 (.156) rivets, including Olympic rivets
#11 (.191) for 3/16 (.188) rivets.

It appears 3 thousandths oversize is the ticket. But why? Is the oversize simply to facilitate getting the rivet in the hole? If so why not use the smallest hole that meets this criteria?

Or is there something about having a hole just a tad larger than the rivet?

interesting article on Drill bit sizes in Wikipedia
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:04 PM   #18
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Bryan,

The drill sizes come from military specifications for buck rivets. The latest spec is MIL-R-47196A(MI).

When bucked rivets are properly set, they expand to completely fill the slightly oversized hole.

Olympic rivets and pop rivets, on the other hand, act by clamping two sheets together, without expansion of the shank.

I believe that the hole sizes for buck rivets got "inherited" by the blind rivets, and that is where the numbers come from.

Personally, when installing pop rivets I just use the rivet size; 1/8" drill for 1/8" rivet. I never use Olympic rivets so I won't comment on the correct drill size. For bucked rivets I use the number size drills you listed.

Edit: Further research on Olympic rivets indicated that the 5/32" Olympic uses a #20 hole (.162-.167). That comes from http://www.boltproducts.com/marson/b...bulb-tite.html ,near the bottom of the page. So there are lots of choices for what size to use.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:19 AM   #19
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Leipper

Contrary to beliefs, without "EXTREMELY" accurate and expensive machinery, drilling a "round" hole is almost impossible, even with a 30,000 RPM air drill, such as we use, in the soft aluminum that Airstream uses.

Therefore if you use a drill bit slightly oversize, the rivet will enter the hole with ease.

If you use a 1/8 inch drill bit for a 1/8 inch rivet, you will find that you have to force the rivet into the hole.

But again, to each his own.

Andy
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
If you use a 1/8 inch drill bit for a 1/8 inch rivet, you will find that you have to force the rivet into the hole.
Sounds like the reason for the .003 inch larger bit than rivet to to make sure that the rivet fits without binding yet without providing too much slack for it to slop around in after it is crimped.

I guess the reason for non binding insertion is to avoid stresses on the rivet or the material that could weaken the rivet or its grip or the material. Not too much slack is then to avoid working and to provide maximum grip surface for the pop rivet.

The round hole issue has implications to think about. 30k RPM sounds like a
dentist's office. Soft aluminum is at least easy to work with.
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