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Old 12-21-2011, 07:10 AM   #61
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Hey Veg,
To get number bits, you'll need to go to a place that sells specialty tools and fasteners. Places like Fastenal, Grainger, or an independent outfit is even better. Ask Darkspeed where he goes.

See Frank's post number 59 above and read B) good advice from Franks, as always.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:17 AM   #62
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Well I was getting bits at vintage online and at the local fastenall but the local fastenall just went out of business.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:40 AM   #63
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Fastenal

Hi Todd.
I'll be in Tampa again today and closed enough from a Fastenal so I can just get some from them.
Looking online I see that they have 2 of the same #, same brand but diff $, any recommendations?
BTW do you need anything from Fastenal?
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:39 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet
Hi Todd.
I'll be in Tampa again today and closed enough from a Fastenal so I can just get some from them.
Looking online I see that they have 2 of the same #, same brand but diff $, any recommendations?
BTW do you need anything from Fastenal?
You may find the are different lengths

No I'm good.. My sister says if they sell boyfriends, she needs a new one..
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:15 AM   #65
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I have noticed on my 47 Spartan Manor that all of the rivet heads already have a dimple dead center. I am assuming that whatever shank was used to install the rivets created this dimple. That is going to make it much easier to start the drill bit dead center. Does anyone know if these type of shanks are avalible for a 3X rivet gun?
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:31 PM   #66
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it wasn't that bad at all!

Hi Guys this is not bad at all!
Got the last VV done today and it wasn't that bad. Except for the fact that my rivet gun is not the best so I'm on ebay now looking for something to speed this riveting process.
Can an Air Hydraulic Riveter Gun be used to speed this up?
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:48 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
Hi Guys this is not bad at all!
Got the last VV done today and it wasn't that bad. Except for the fact that my rivet gun is not the best so I'm on ebay now looking for something to speed this riveting process.
Can an Air Hydraulic Riveter Gun be used to speed this up?
Sure can, as long as you have an extension cord, a compressor and an air hose.

Andy
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:59 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
Hi Guys this is not bad at all!
Got the last VV done today and it wasn't that bad. Except for the fact that my rivet gun is not the best so I'm on ebay now looking for something to speed this riveting process.
Can an Air Hydraulic Riveter Gun be used to speed this up?
Ya I got one... Think it is still in the box.. lol.. need to borrow it
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by danimal327 View Post
I have noticed on my 47 Spartan Manor that all of the rivet heads already have a dimple dead center. I am assuming that whatever shank was used to install the rivets created this dimple. That is going to make it much easier to start the drill bit dead center. Does anyone know if these type of shanks are avalible for a 3X rivet gun?
Not sure the size of the rivet, but the dimples (MS20470-AD5) still exist in new rivets today. They are not created by the shank.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
Hi Guys this is not bad at all!
Got the last VV done today and it wasn't that bad. Except for the fact that my rivet gun is not the best so I'm on ebay now looking for something to speed this riveting process.
Can an Air Hydraulic Riveter Gun be used to speed this up?
If you are using "pop" rivets, a gun is so much better. I had an air/hydraulic. I ended up buying a straight air gun made by Pop of all people. One of the best tools I have bought. Even for the price.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:57 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by danimal327 View Post
I have noticed on my 47 Spartan Manor that all of the rivet heads already have a dimple dead center. I am assuming that whatever shank was used to install the rivets created this dimple. That is going to make it much easier to start the drill bit dead center. Does anyone know if these type of shanks are avalible for a 3X rivet gun?
The rivets you posted a pictured of are AN455AD4-X (#30 drill) which are extremly hard to find anymore and replaced by MS20470AD5-X (#21 drill). Below is AC 43.13 that explains the numbers, Identifiers,alloys, etc

The best drill bits to use are 135 degree split tip in cobalt at around 3000 rpm, more expensive be last 10X longer.

I personally have never used one of those guide tools as they were not available when I started doing aircraft sheet metal way back in 1976
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #72
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I will add that I used one of those drill guides and found it was very good at STARTING a hole. It is super fast to hit a bunch of rivets and create a very centered shallow hole. I then used a regular bit to finish drilling out the rivet.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:34 PM   #73
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The best drill bits to use are 135 degree split tip in cobalt at around 3000 rpm, more expensive be last 10X longer.
Many years ago, I found these for sale in solid carbide, double ended (I think at the EAA airshow back when it was still in Rockford, IL.) ... in a SHORT version - perhaps two inches long. They are terrific, if you can find them - because of their short length and hardness, they don't flex or wander at all, and they have lasted for literally decades and have drilled zillions of rivets and rivet holes. Also, because of their sharpness, and when used at highe speeds, they cut fast and clean. Chuck up one of these in a high speed air drill, and yer' ready to go!

Only drawback is that you need a diamond wheel to sharpen them. Then again, I've never needed to sharpen them!
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:26 AM   #74
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The rivets you posted a pictured of are AN455AD4-X (#30 drill) which are extremly hard to find anymore and replaced by MS20470AD5-X (#21 drill). Below is AC 43.13 that explains the numbers, Identifiers,alloys, etc

The best drill bits to use are 135 degree split tip in cobalt at around 3000 rpm, more expensive be last 10X longer.

I personally have never used one of those guide tools as they were not available when I started doing aircraft sheet metal way back in 1976
Just a quick question. I went to the Airparts web site https://www.airpartsinc.com/shopexd.asp?id=189 . They show a ms20470ad4-x. Would that not be an 1/8th inch rivet/ #30 bit? I want to make sure I don't end up buying a 1000 incorect rivets.

Dan
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:07 PM   #75
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Let me explain one other thing. AN455AD4-X rivets have a manufactured head of 5/16 diameter. In order to replace then with a MS20470AD rivet you will have to use a 5/32 rivet which has a manufactured head diameter of 5/16.

So if you want the diameter of the replacment rivets to match closely to the exisiting AN455AD4-X rivets, you will have to order MS20470AD5-X rivets.

Also check that Airparts rivets do not have as I call the, "Paragraph on the head", which is a bunch of lettering. I order all of my rivets from here

Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co.
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:44 PM   #76
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Thanks Aerowood!
You a truley a rivet master!
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