Hammer drills.

[chalcedon]

Hello all!
Has anyone out there ever used a hammer drill set to just hammer position to buck rivets?
I,m thinking that this could possibly work and save me a bunch of dough.
Any thoughts?
Eric.

[markdoane]

I think a hammer drill has two settings- drill, and drill+hammer, so the chuck is always rotating. That won't work because the rivet must not spin while being set.

You may be thinking of a rotary hammer, which does have a hammer only setting. I haven't seen a rotary hammer that would be small and agile enough to set rivets. It would leave a row of dents in your aluminum.

[clancy_boy]

I'be never "bucked rivits" before so I may be way off, BUT from what you describe the small palm sized pnumatic hammers for tight spots I have used for house framing might work. May need to have the right hammer made for the head but the one I have has replaceable heads for different nail sizes. Might work and not that expensive. You need air.

[sequoiacoast]

Okay, I need to risk looking like a complete moron.. but I have to ask... bucking rivets: what? when? why?

If I want to replace some interior skins, a small section of banana wrap, part of the underbelly, the rear bumper rail/gaurd (decorative trim piece), and resize the water heater opening (which involves recutting the added on piece from PO and re-attatching to cover the obscene hole in trailer):
What do I need? Can I order the air riveter from Harbor freight? And 1/8" pop rivets from Vintage supply, and Olympics (will the air riveter set these) for the exterior portion?
I don't want to spend a ton on such small repairs.... Do I need all of the other riveting "things" I'm finding through the forum search.
While I'm at it: Name and gauge of ext. skin? Gauge of interior skin?

Signed, lost confused and needing a riveting for dummies section!

[markdoane]

Dear Risking,

For what you want to do, forget about bucked rivets. Bucking is how the rivets are installed at the factory.

You want to stick with pop rivets (interior and belly) or Olympic rivets for the outside skin repair.

I just love the Harbor Freight riveter. They do need to be taken apart and cleaned every 1000 rivets. The jaws can get dirty.

You can buy poprivets (all aluminum) at any hardware store.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by clancy_boy

I'be never "bucked rivits" before so I may be way off, BUT from what you describe the small palm sized pnumatic hammers for tight spots I have used for house framing might work.

I don't think a palm nailer would work because of control problems. Bucking is a two person job.

The person with the rivet gun needs to insert the rivet in the hole, and hold it, without hammering, while the person on the other side sets the bucking bar against the tail. He then signals the person with the hammer to start hammering.

You can't do that with palm hammers because the pressure to hold the rivet in the hole would activate the hammer.

If you could mount a remote trigger for the palm hammer it would work and might be an improvement over the current rivet hammer design.

Some people can use a regular air hammer for bucking rivets, I find them a little too heavy duty, and don't have adequate trigger sensitivity.

[Zeppelinium]

Originally Posted by markdoane

...You want to stick with pop rivets (interior and belly) or Olympic rivets for the outside skin repair.

I just love the Harbor Freight riveter. They do need to be taken apart and cleaned every 1000 rivets. The jaws can get dirty.

You can buy poprivets (all aluminum) at any hardware store.

Do you mean the "hydraulic" pop riveter that uses air? I just bought one at harbor freight. Yes, this tool is supposed to be able to set up to a 1/4" rivet. The Olympics are 3/16". but you can also set them with a manual tool. One type looks like the handles on aviation snips, the other looks more like a bolt cutter. The former works fine, but sometimes requires two hands (maybe I don't have superior hand strength) and I either get a blister or a really sore hand after only 20 or so rivets.

BTW, I bought a bunch of air tools at HF, and am quite satisfied--nailers, sprayers, air wrench, air hammer, cutters, and nibblers (not all at once, mind you). One word of caution about the nibbler--works great on stiff alloys of aluminum, but soft alloys quickly coat the shaft of the head and as soon as it cools, it's dead. As in frozen. So that $19 goes into the can and you go get another one! and you're a little smarter.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

Do you mean the "hydraulic" pop riveter that uses air? I just bought one at harbor freight.

Yeah, the blue one. One thing I like is that you can hold the riveter in one hand, and move the sheets around with the other; then just pull the trigger.

I think it does a more consistent job of pulling rivets than the manual two-hand puller.

And it's FAST!

and it makes a very pleasing "Ka-Chunk . .hiss" sound.

[TomW]

Originally Posted by sequoiacoast

...but I have to ask... bucking rivets: what? when? why?...

Bucking rivets, on a production line, is considerably cheaper than installing Olympic rivets. Bucked rivets, when properly installed [and with the proper spacing], can not be beat for making a high strength union.

While I have not personally done a stress analysis of bucked vs. Olympic rivets, my preference for any given application would be for bucked rivets.

However, for a repair, I am more than comfortable with Olympic rivets if it means sparing my interior from being gutted to get to the back-side of the rivet.

Tom

[silver 67]

Which Harbor rivet gun did you get that you like so much.

[markdoane]

This one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...itemnumber=167

For $25, it's pretty good!

[nickcrowhurst]

I've been wondering recently whether or not we should use "blind rivets", rather than the hardware store pop rivets. The latter can leak water through the central hole, and I usually put a smear of Acryl-R on each rivet. Blind rivets or "sealed pop rivets" avoid this problem. There is an interesting description of this, together with analysis of strengths of the various types at http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Rivets.html
Any experiences or views?
Nick

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst

Any experiences or views?
Nick

I have looked for information on the shear strength of Olympic rivets, without success.

I did find of information on solids rivets, Huck bolts, Cherrymax rivets, and just about any other method of joining any two sheets of metal together. It's an interesting booklet. A little light reading.

CAUTION: Don't attempt to download unless you have a broadband connection. This file is 67 Meg, and over 1700 pages.

It will take you most of an evening to browse through it.

Department of Defense Handbook, Metallic Materials and Elements for Aerospace Vehicles, MIL-HDBK-5J, 31 January 2003

http://www.combatindex.com/mil_docs/...-4483-5733.pdf

("Section 8" is on fasteners, how appropriate)

Enjoy, all you engineers!