Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[Silvertwinkie]

BTW Brian, you spent most likely well over $40k on your Safari. If this was the answer the auto dealer were to give you about your paint peeling off or something similar, would you not press it? If you are at the factory, I would press it full court. You spent good hard earned money on your vehicle. I agree, I'd ask to speak to Wheeler. Dave Schumann totally blew me off too. Difference is, I'm here in Illinois, you are at Jackson Center. There are more options when you are face to face........

[dmac]

You made a wise choice... there is nothing that they can do to fix your unit. If the Corrosion-X spray can work its way under the clear and slow down the progress of corrosion, then that is worth a try. Replacing the wheels would make you feel good for about 6 months, upon which the worm tracks start again. Replacing skins... forgetaboutit, the solution is worse than the problem.

My trailer is now 6 years old. It had corrosion problems from the beginning. However, surprisingly, it has not gotten significantly worse over time. But I store it inside, and now in an insulated/heated airplane hangar. I wash it once or twice a year, and have Walbernized it a couple times.

So far the corrosion is aesthetic, and not structural. The worst of it originates from under the taillights. I don't think it would help if I just spray the visible corrosion areas with Corrosion-X, because the corrosion is under the clearcoat. I'd need to remove the taillights and spray the cut edges of the aluminum, where I believe the corrosion began. Then hope that some of the spray works its way through the worm tracks, which seems unlikely, to help slow future corrosion.

Somewhat related, the belly skin under the rear of my trailer was attached around the edges by pop-rivits. It supports the insulation between it and the wood floor. A while ago, the belly pan came loose, and the insulation fell out. Some of the rivits broke, others pulled through the belly pan. This was partly due to dissimilar metals corrosion, and partly due to the need for better support of the belly pan. I installed replacement insulation and reattached the pan using rivits with oversized washers, and added an extruded aluminum L-rail to support the field.

Originally Posted by RIstream'n

Frankly I didn't push him too much because I figured even if they did replace the wheels it would come back and even if I got them to do the belt line trim molding that would just be covering the problem. Truth is there is no solution so I didn't know where to push him... He did notice and make a comment about my AIR forums sticker on the window so I'm sure he knew he couldn't deny there was something going on.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Almost as good as tech support telling me to put clear nail polish on the places mine were showing up. When I told the rep that it's everywhere and questioned if he really expected me to put clear nail polish all over my Safari, it was like a dial tone........

I know silver they told me the same thing, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Great customer service. I was a little puzzled when we purchased our Classic that we never received a CSI survey, well I sure know now don't I. There is very little of that going around. Oh, by the way, Iv'e graduated to the automotive clearcoat in the little bottle, wow am I happy now.

[RIstream'n]

Dan,
While I was driving home from JC I was thinking that I'm going to email them and have them clarify how and when I should apply it. What they wrote on my repair order was, and I qoute, "Airstream has found that Corrosion X has been used to neutrilize corrosion when used on a regular basis". You gotta be kidding me right??? How did they find that out?? It neutrilizes it??? And my real question is how do you apply it effectively and what's a regular basis??? It leaves alot of wiggle room. I'll try to find out what schedule for application he's talking about.

[OB Bambi]

I'm new this whole thing, but I guess what it boils down to is, to get them to do anything about it is we have to hit them in the wallet. The funny thing is that I am having a corrosion problem on the hood of my 2001 Ford Expedition. It has always been parked out of the weather and still has corrosion on both sides of the leading edge of the hood. (I think the water stays there when it is washed). I have a couple of photos of my 2006 Airstream. These are the same that I sent to Airstream a few months ago. They told me Corrosion-X. Believe me I haven't neglected my Airstream.

[Silverwanabe]

If the skin is treated at the mill with "plasticote",
how does corrosion begin under the coating?

I thought the new coating method was to be more reliable than the spray on method.

[ROBERT CROSS]

[quote=OB Bambi;591062]Attachment 63850I'm new this whole thing, but I guess what it boils down to is, to get them to do anything about it is we have to hit them in the wallet. The funny thing is that I am having a corrosion problem on the hood of my 2001 Ford Expedition. It has always been parked out of the weather and still has corrosion on both sides of the leading edge of the hood. (I think the water stays there when it is washed). I have a couple of photos of my 2006 Airstream. These are the same that I sent to Airstream a few months ago. They told me Corrosion-X. Believe me I haven't neglected my Airstream.[/quote

Welcome to the Forums, glad to have you here!!


Sure is unfortunate that your second post is on such a confrontational topic...only time will tell. As you can see a lot of us are in the same boat.

[OB Bambi]

...guess not, Greg.

Randy Bowman, San Diego.

[SilverRanger]

The dealership replaced both tail/brake light bezels and the door grab handle on my 2005 while it was still under warranty. They said they tried the factory recommended repair of removing the clear coat, polishing, and re-coating, and that the results looked terrible. They also said the factory fought them all the way on the replacement of the parts.

Just last year, after decades of being an Airstream dealership, they announced they would no longer sell them, but they would continue to repair them. I can't help but wonder if lack of support from AS on issues like these factored into their decision.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Silverwanabe

If the skin is treated at the mill with "plasticote",
how does corrosion begin under the coating?

I thought the new coating method was to be more reliable than the spray on method.

The thought process is, and mind you, I'm no engineer, is that the coating is disturbed when they cut, punch holes in the beltline for the rivets, etc.

Once the area is disturbed, air, water, etc can get in between the coating and the metal. If you look at a CCD interior skins, few if any have corrosion on the inside skins. I have about 5 or 6 feet of CCD type interior on my backsplash in the kitchen area. Not a single problem. The disturbed area is not exposed to the outside.

However, the outside is a whole different beast.

I was at the factory and looked at the alum sheets they use. Not one of them had any corrosion that I could see. None of the units on the production floor had any either....once they got outside though, the stopwatch starts ticking. Attached are pics of the sheets of almum yet to be put together, completed sides before routing is done, basically cutting holes in the walls again, disturbing the coating, and last you'll see the machine that punches what I seem to recall as the middle belt line holes to join the top and bottom sections of the wall. Ironically, this is the place most of the corrosion is seen, the belt line....

[Silvertwinkie]

Attached is a pic of what I believe that big machine with the emblem Heim does to the sheets of alum when it punches the holes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that once these holes are punched into the coated skin, that the edges around the holes no longer have any protection if the rivet does not make a perfect seal once it fills the hole. It's my thought as to why some have more issues than others.

Again, just my thoughts. How accurate these comments are, you'd have to get someone with far more knowledge than I have, but it seem possible to me......

[wheel interested]

Yesterday, I had the task of acting as an inspector for a new 2007 International at the dealer's.

There was quite a lot of corrosion. The door handle and lights were to be replaced but the end panels suffered severely from filiment corrosion. The wheels also showed the beginning of corrosive activity. It made my task grievious. I don't want the dealer to lose a sale or the perspective purchaser to lose their enthusiasm nor to be the messenger with bad news.

These are some of the pictures I forwarded. All the dealer's new Airstreams were thus afflicted. It's really a shame for everyone concerned. It's like a blight that's spreading. So many Airstreams are infected, or affected.

This pretty much resembles our 23' 2007 International as well.

Are the end caps aluminum clearcoated by Alcoa? I was told these panels are not treated and it is not just the stretching that leaves those panels more dull in appearance but they have no clear coat on them.

[SafariSS]

Carol,

Dont reveal the dealers name, but is the lot near the ocean or in a humid climate? My Safari came from Bates RV down in Tampa Fl, and most rigs that had sat on the lot for several months had some type of filiform on them. It seems to start quickly, then jus slowly grow.

Those pics of the 07 are just a bummer. Those seem particularly bad, however even a 07 could have been built in the summer of 06.

[wheel interested]

No I was told the units were never exposed to elements such as the ocean, or road salt and stored inside during the winter. The dealer is perplexed and says Airstream has people working on the issue. There just seems to be no rhyme or reason that is clear at this point.

I too had my door handle and battery boxes recoated and the wheels replaced and the corrosion reappeared on the new wheels right at home traveling only directly back within a couple short months of being replaced. I had asked what I could do to prevent it from reoccurring and what causes it and the factory told me with a shrug, they do not know why, something in the air.

[Silvertwinkie]

That is just about the worst belt line corrosion I have seen yet.

I *may* have spoken off line to the purchaser. My comments were:

"Would you buy a new $40k car with the paint issues in places while it was still on the dealer lot before signing the papers?"

Thanks for posting these pictures Carol. These pictures are EXACTLY what I have been talking about since mid 2005. It is just outrageous to think ANYONE would want to buy this Airstream in this condition.

The sad thing is that currently, based on what has been posted here, once the customer signs the papers, it's all on them as the factory does not appear to be dealing with this issue any longer in terms of warranty claims. Moreover, what solutions would be avail? Skin replacement (issue still might come back), panel overlay (issue could still come back), belt trim (masks the issue and eventually corrosion could expand beyond the trim cover piece), strip down and re-coat the sheets (expensive, and then not the same as the coating that Alcoa puts on).

I would RUN, not walk from this Airstream unless it was $20k off list, putting it around $25k for the unit, which ironically may be the price of a good used unit.

BTW, Carol, as far as I know, the caps are treated as they get their alum as sheets from Alcoa. My unit has it on the end caps the side panels, etc, so even if the caps are not treated, I think it's pretty well shown that this is happening many places on Airstreams, not just the caps.

About how many Airstreams were at this dealer? If in fact ALL of them have this to some degree, this clearly indicates to me that as we all suspected, this is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH larger of an issue than we are seeing here on the forum from just folks who have chosen to participate in this thread.

Airstream better come up with something and pretty quick, and a real solution that works.

[wheel interested]

Eric, the dealer has 4 Airstreams currently with more on the way.

Our new to us slightly used 2007 23' has the same issue from another dealer and state. Our 27' 2007 has more random spots at this time, the worst showing on the wheels but I am out there treating it often, for what that is worth. My friend's new special ordered 2008 34' SO has it on her Classic developing from the chrome trim area, my other friend just had the trim put over the beltline on her new to her 2005 CCD. Frankly this is the norm and not the exception from what I have seen.

I do hope they come up with something for us! I never intended to be fighting a losing battle of the exterior failing and so soon. If the aluminum were the higher grade of the vintage units we would have good options to maintain or to restore a good skin.

Who's the history buff here? Maybe "Big Al" from Canada can help me out, his Airstream was part of a batch of bad skinned Airstreams whose clearcoat failed and Airstream painted and clearcoated those units and his looks great to this day. Not to mention easy care.

[05ModPod]

I am the friend Carol mentioned that just bought an 05 CCD from Foiled Again.

Variables - this Unit was located within 3 miles of the Eastern Seaboard Ocean.

Had been sitting in Storage for over a year.

Paula had the rear lights replaced - they were at least 50% subject to corrosion.

The Door hinges as well as the wheel rims have untreated corrosion - (on my list of things to do.)

Also opening up the window guards revealed corrosion on only one of the actual window frames - that will need a little bit more than elbow grease buffing out.

I was not aware that this is such a big issue until reading this thread.

I would think the problem lies with Alcoa company - and possibly a group or class action could be administered for either compensation or actual replacement of panels and or aluminum items.

Trailers are considered "vehicles" and as such there are quality rules and regs beyond the manufacturer to the product suppliers or a combination there of.

It would result in a "Recall" situation be it warranty or not. Reasonable wear and tear can be touted but I am sure with enough evidence gathered - this problem would not be considered reasonable wear and tear.

Between the Forum and WBCCI there should be enough "media" to enable some sort of petition to be circulated. And with any public out cry - enough voices spoken will and has moved mountains.....

[2airishuman]

hi gt1963

while the issues relating to SKIN corrosion involve panels made by alcoa...

the wheels/rims tail lights, door hinges and other bits aren't supplied or made my alcoa...

some of these corroded bits (which ARE annoying) aren't even aluminum.

IF the issue was ONLY on skin panels as clearly shown in carols pics,

it would better support the notion (which i favor) that HANDLING the panels during construction is the issue...

but when all the trim bits, rims and others parts ALSO have surface corrosion (which isn't all filiform)

it really dues support the beliefs that air and road salt exposures are common cause and ubiquitous.

cheers
2air'

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by lewster

I've got it too, on my '06 19CCD. I noticed it at delivery, but the dealer said they couldn't do anything about it. It was just one more reason that the CCD never saw the dealer after delivery.

I have replaced BOTH tali light bezels, and have a noticeable white area on the entry door grab handle.

When I spoke to Airstream tech support, they said that the handle is mounted to the outer skin from the inside and can't be removed for polishing unless you remove an inner panel.......AIN'T HAPPNIN'!!!

Anyway, I think I might have a solution to this problem. I was speaking to the marine tech guys where I rent my office space and was describing my corrosion problem. One looked at the other and the BOTH said.......ANODES!

I'm going to try one on the bottom of the trailer in a couple of weeks after I clear up and re-polish any areas I find, and we'll see what happens. Worth a shot anyway!

Hi Lew; First, slow down a bit Lew before you do more damage than you already have. It is not as simple as you may think. There are vast number of reasons as to why this is happening, and until one determines the true cause, let us involve some experts on this issue. While I have a considerable extent of knowledge in Marine Corrosion, I would first like to lean on my buddy Mark who is a chemical research engineer with
L------. The reason for putting thing on hold is, that while Electrolysis and or galvanic corrosion may speed up the deterioration, there may be other issues involved. On my own, I would like to bet that material's chemical composition plays a major role. You should know by now that demand for aluminum has greatly increased lately. Many car components are made of aluminum as well as the bodies. Much of the aluminum today is recycled.
At times it is difficult for smelting establishments to separate impurities such as "zinc" known as white metal. When aluminum contains any impurities, the problem will start in that specific area of contamination as a galvanic reaction. Second area that will show in is in diminished contact area, which is at rivets and joints where tiny amount of electrolysis will try to bridge the poor connection by removing material from one surface and deposit it on the adjacent spot with weaker connection than that of solid material itself. Dissimilar metals can start galvanic reaction which can assist electrolysis to travel into other areas. First we need to determine grade of aluminum used in those units, and determine it's chemical properties. If it is contaminated there is nothing one can do about it. Until then, one must be very careful what type of zinc we can apply. RULE NUMBER ONE, zinc must be made of less noble material than sheet aluminum itself. It must be not be placed directly on the skin [it must be isolated along contact surface and be bolted with best conductor possible. Hard zinc will eat away the aluminum in the contact area, and unless it is less noble than aluminum, it will not work. Second issue is proper grounding of the zinc. Tires isolate the trailer from ground. Trailer jack in most times will not provide a good ground. Although I have plenty of experience in marine applications, I have not experimented with objects out of water. It would be interesting to see if a milliamp reading can be obtained between different components of the trailer, especially after long drive in the rain. When time allows I will seek help from my buddy Mark. Till then hold up with installation of the zinc Lew. Thanks, "Boatdoc"

[CanoeStream]

There is no way to guide the effects of a sacrificial zinc without an electrical connection; eg, immersion in seawater (electrolyte) as in salt/marine applications. See ABRACADABRA's post in http://www.airforums.com/forums/f458...air-19735.html.

Other threads of interest are http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...ion-16229.html and http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...act-26282.html.