Closed End Pop Rivets

[vhord]

While re-ordering my rivet inventory today at my hardware store I was reminded of a request that I had several years ago for closed end pop rivets. My hardware suppliers do not stock them.

I have been concerned that a lot of the exterior pieces on my Airstream (rub rails, trim, name plates, reflectors, etc.) had been attached with standard pop rivets which can leak. I think that closed end rivets like these or these would be a better application. They would appear to be less likely to leak than even an Olympic rivet although for skin replacement the Olympic rivets would have a better appearance.



Some of the Airstream parts dealers stock pop rivets in matching colors (blue, brown, etc.) but they are standard type rivets. IMHO - If these closed end pop rivets were better I would have thought they would stock them for all exterior applications.

[Kevin245]

I use them on other applications with great success. I don't see any reason why they would not work better than standard rivets for non-skin applications.

[utee94]

I like the idea, there are certainly some applications for this type of rivet on an Airstream.

[Distantdrummer]

Vernon I would like to see what these look like after riveting.
If they are near the same price as open end, why would anyone not use these?
Only advantage in the open end I can think of would be that they are easier to drill out due to the "pilot" hole.
Now if the closed ends have an ugly finised appearance then that would also be a detriment.
And if it takes a whole lot more grip muscle to squeeze them set, I guess that too would be a factor.

Will they not dress up similar to an Olympic with the right shave or Dremmel touch?

And why did you say less likely to leak than even an Olympic? Are Olympics prone to leaking?
What sizes do they come in and are they aluminum?
Lastly can you special order them?


thanks

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by Distantdrummer

Vernon I would like to see what these look like after riveting.
If they are near the same price as open end, why would anyone not use these?
Only advantage in the open end I can think of would be that they are easier to drill out due to the "pilot" hole.
Now if the closed ends have an ugly finised appearance then that would also be a detriment.
And if it takes a whole lot more grip muscle to squeeze them set, I guess that too would be a factor.

Will they not dress up similar to an Olympic with the right shave or Dremmel touch?

And why did you say less likely to leak than even an Olympic? Are Olympics prone to leaking?
What sizes do they come in and are they aluminum?
Lastly can you special order them?


thanks

D-Squared,

They look like regular pop rivets when installed. The difference is on the back side. The swage bulb on the pull pin is encased in the sheath, unlike a regular pop rivet where the bulb end is visible and exposed. Look at the picture that was posted, and compare it to a conventional pop rivet if you have one available.

[Distantdrummer]

OK
I was thinking that upon set the mandrel hole was filled by something that pulled up and out. Leaving a nipple that plugged the hole.
If the hole looks the same I would always have doubt that it was actually sealed in the rear.
Guess just to shoot some pookey into the standard pop-rivet holes is still the sure way??

[vhord]

Originally Posted by Distantdrummer

Guess just to shoot some pookey into the standard pop-rivet holes is still the sure way??

Unless you have access to the back side of the rivet you will not be able to do this very successfully.

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by Distantdrummer

OK
I was thinking that upon set the mandrel hole was filled by something that pulled up and out. Leaving a nipple that plugged the hole.
If the hole looks the same I would always have doubt that it was actually sealed in the rear.
Guess just to shoot some pookey into the standard pop-rivet holes is still the sure way??

From the outside they look just like regular pop rivets. The shank break occurs near the surface, but not like an Olympic rivet. They really do work well for belly skin, or beltline area applications.

I'll be gald to send you some to play with if I ever get back to the US.

Regards,

Kevin

[vhord]

In case anyone is interested I ordered some closed end pop rivets for outside applications and a bag of regular pop rivets for the inside skin. In the following picture you can see the difference. The closed end are on the left and the regular pop rivets are on the right. I think the closed end pop rivets will definitely be more water tight.

[Jim Clark]

I think you may want to look a Olympic Rivets and a rivet shaver for the exterior panel work. I had never seen the closed end rivets but do see a application. Inland has Olympic Rivets.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...lation-23.html

[toddster]

Given proper application, closed end rivets will provide a water tight seal - I've used them in designs that are subject to submersion (about 6" of water).

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by toddster

Given proper application, closed end rivets will provide a water tight seal - I've used them in designs that are subject to submersion (about 6" of water).

All rivets will leak, that are pulled, unless they are sealed underneath the rivet head.

When the holes are drilled, even with a 20,000 to 30,000 rpm drill, the holes are never "perfectly round." Close examination of those rivet holes will show that they are ever so slight triangular shaped.

That being the case, they can leak.

Buck rivets, tend do fill those holes, since the body is expanded to fill a hole.

Sealing each rivet as it's installed, is the sure way to be leak proof.

Andy

[vhord]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

I think you may want to look a Olympic Rivets and a rivet shaver for the exterior panel work. I had never seen the closed end rivets but do see a application. Inland has Olympic Rivets.

I have some Olympic rivets but plan on saving them for future repairs when I do not have access to the inside. I plan on using the closed end pop rivets just on the rub rails, name plates, etc. and I am using bucked rivets on the skin repairs.

Originally Posted by toddster

Given proper application, closed end rivets will provide a water tight seal - I've used them in designs that are subject to submersion (about 6" of water).

At least they won't leak down the center mandrel.

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

All rivets will leak, that are pulled, unless they are sealed underneath the rivet head.

When the holes are drilled, even with a 20,000 to 30,000 rpm drill, the holes are never "perfectly round." Close examination of those rivet holes will show that they are ever so slight triangular shaped.

That being the case, they can leak.

Buck rivets, tend do fill those holes, since the body is expanded to fill a hole.

Sealing each rivet as it's installed, is the sure way to be leak proof.

Andy

I agree that sealant should still be applied when installing them. That would help seal the outside perimeter. It's the center mandrel that I am concerned with. With regular pop rivets (and Olympic rivets) it would be impossible to seal the center mantrel without access from the inside after setting them.

[k4ter]

So how do you "seal underneath the rivet head?"... --Bill Morrow

[Becky B.]

You dab some Vulkem into the hole before you set your rivet in it. No big deal.

[WILDRTEXAS]

Hi Vernon,
Do you have these rivets for sale?
Thanks, Cynthia

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by WILDRTEXAS

Hi Vernon,
Do you have these rivets for sale?
Thanks, Cynthia

Hi Cynthia,

You can purchase closed end rivets at most local Fastenal locations, your local industrial supply store, or you can order them (what I do) at either:

www.fastenal.com

www.mcmastercarr.com

Regards,

Kevin

[boo_n_sue]

I see this is an old thread - hopefully someone will reply. I'm in the process of remodeling and 'sealing' my '81 Excella. I'm replacing the brittle and broken vinyl belt-line and rub-rail inserts. I also have a lot of the inside skin removed from re-wiring and replacing insulation. While I have the inside skin and vinyl rail inserts removed, I might as well seal all of the rivets. Replacing them all with closed end rivets would be a chore but might be worth it as this is my first AS and I'd like to keep it for a while without having to 'gut' it again.

I'm wondering what size rivets to use for the rub-rail. I think they are 1/8" but I'm not sure what grip range to get. Is there one size that I can use for all inner skin/etc and rub rail inserts?

While I'm askin - what size are used to fasten the belly skin to the frame - 3/16"? Not sure on grip range for these either.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and info! I really appreciate it.

Michael

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by boo_n_sue

I see this is an old thread - hopefully someone will reply. I'm in the process of remodeling and 'sealing' my '81 Excella. I'm replacing the brittle and broken vinyl belt-line and rub-rail inserts. I also have a lot of the inside skin removed from re-wiring and replacing insulation. While I have the inside skin and vinyl rail inserts removed, I might as well seal all of the rivets. Replacing them all with closed end rivets would be a chore but might be worth it as this is my first AS and I'd like to keep it for a while without having to 'gut' it again.

I'm wondering what size rivets to use for the rub-rail. I think they are 1/8" but I'm not sure what grip range to get. Is there one size that I can use for all inner skin/etc and rub rail inserts?

While I'm askin - what size are used to fasten the belly skin to the frame - 3/16"? Not sure on grip range for these either.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and info! I really appreciate it.

Michael

You can use #48 pop rivets for the rub rails. The grip range is not critical, but using rivets that are longer than actually neede, does no harm, nor does it cause any problems.

The best rivets to use for the underbelly are # 68 "large head" pop rivets.

The larger head pays many dividends in time.

Andy

[elhoppy7]

So would you seal them with silicon? Thanks!