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10-24-2010, 08:18 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Broken Front Frame Plate Rivets
Most of these rivets were broken when I bought my Sovereign back in 2004. I replaced these rivets with Olympic rivets, but over the years the rivets all broke. What is the true cause for these rivets breaking in the first place? One theory is that they break from having too stiff of a hitch setup.
Anyhow, I replaced all of these broken Olympics rivets with buck rivets yesterday and the repair looks great. The front is now rock solid. I sure hope this is the final time I have to do this repair. I'm curious what others have experienced with this issue and the results of their repairs. Is this something I'm going to have to do throughout my ownership?
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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10-24-2010, 08:37 AM
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#2
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x
XXXX
, XXXX
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,601
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Mike I noticed that you only removed the center panel from the interior. How solid is your floor around the main hold down bolts. They go through the front C channel, floor and into the main frame rails. If that connection is not solid maybe too much stress is being put on the rivets holding the shell to the holddown plate.
Inland Andy suggests putting another two rows of rivets on either side of the original ones to add additional stress points and reduce the load on each rivet. Why not put in the extra rows now while you have it apart.
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10-24-2010, 09:03 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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If you have not already done it I would remove the banana strip and check the skin to C channel rivets. Mine required reriveting from the door all the way around to the other side
The movement that is shearing the plate rivets is not unique to that area but rather extends to either side, back to a hinge point, just as if you were opening a book that had been sealed with a short piece of tape along the center of the edge.
If you find a need for additional rivet consider using larger dia. rivets to increase the shear area of the rivet.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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10-24-2010, 09:05 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Hi Chris,
Great point. Yes, Andy told me the same thing when my Sovereign was in his shop back in January. I'll definately be adding another row of rivets across the front to strengthen the repair. Hadn't considered two rows. I'll have to think about that. And the floor appears to be solid across the front. Of course, there's only one way to really find out and I'm not willing to do that.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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10-24-2010, 09:10 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
If you have not already done it I would remove the banana strip and check the skin to C channel rivets. Mine required reriveting from the door all the way around to the other side
The movement that is shearing the plate rivets is not unique to that area but rather extends to either side, back to a hinge point, just as if you were opening a book that had been sealed with a short piece of tape along the center of the edge.
If you find a need for additional rivet consider using larger dia. rivets to increase the shear area of the rivet.
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Howie,
Removing the banana strip to check the C-channel rivets is a great idea. I'll have to do that. I'll be using larger diameter rivets in the additional row(s) I install.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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10-24-2010, 09:32 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master 
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mello mike
Howie,
Removing the banana strip to check the C-channel rivets is a great idea. I'll have to do that. I'll be using larger diameter rivets in the additional row(s) I install.
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Mike.
We usually add 3 rows of rivets.
You can space them out so that it looks like it was built that way.
But your photo also shows missing rivets in the rub rail.
That too, is from heavy duty you know whats.
The front of your Airstream is telling you "loud and clear" your beating me to death.
Andy
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10-24-2010, 09:45 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Mike.
We usually add 3 rows of rivets.
You can space them out so that it looks like it was built that way.
But you photo also shows missing rivets in the rub rail.
That too, is from heavy duty you know whats.
The front of your Airstream is tell you "loud and clear" your beating me to death.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
I hear 'ya. The Excursion with the stiff suspension is gone and I'm now towing with an F150 which has a much softer ride. So we'll see how that goes. I'll be replacing the rivets in the rub rail as well. Three rows!!! I'll consider that.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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10-24-2010, 09:48 AM
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#8
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x
XXXX
, XXXX
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,601
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Mike you can peel back the carpet and probe carefully with an ice pick to check floor integrity especially around the main holddown bolts.
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10-24-2010, 09:53 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master 
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mello mike
Hi Andy,
I hear 'ya. The Excursion with the stiff suspension is gone and I'm now towing with an F150 which has a much softer ride. So we'll see how that goes. I'll be replacing the rivets in the rub rail as well. Three rows!!! I'll consider that.
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Mike.
Now that you have a softer riding tow vehicle, with standard rear springs (hopefully), don't go heavier than 750 to 800 pound hitch bar rating.
Surround the stem of each Olympic rivet, with a small bead of Vulkem sealer before you insert it into the hole.
Then, since you have the inside panel off, seal them again with Vulkem.
On the other hand, since you have access to the back side of the fish plate (front hold down plate), why not consider using "buck rivets"?
Andy
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10-24-2010, 09:57 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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I forgot to mention that rivets sheared off in the outer skin will have the same area rivets sheared off on the inside skin so a quick way to check is to remove whatever couch or cabinets are against the inside of the front of the trailer and inspect the rivets into the C channel on either side of the center plate.
Not on the attached picture that the bottom section of the outer skin had to be replaced with an insert of new material tucked up under the skin and riveted to the c channel with a separate row of rivets already popped. The original skin had just been torn away. Also note the rivets are now on about 2 in. centers rather than 4 in. as original.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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10-24-2010, 10:28 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
On the other hand, since you have access to the back side of the fish plate (front hold down plate), why not consider using "buck rivets"?
Andy
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Andy, I am using buck rivets. See my initial post. The Olympic rivets I used before didn't last, hence why I'm using buck rivets now.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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10-24-2010, 10:39 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master 
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,596
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What alloy rivet are you using? For this application I would only use the "AD" rivets. The shear strength of "A" rivets is not very high.
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10-24-2010, 10:48 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
What alloy rivet are you using? For this application I would only use the "AD" rivets. The shear strength of "A" rivets is not very high.
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A very interesting point, but in my case the original rivets held and the skin tore. Now having repaired it, with many but light rivets, do I want the rivets to hold or the skin to hold before the next repair. its a judgment call.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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10-24-2010, 10:59 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
What alloy rivet are you using? For this application I would only use the "AD" rivets. The shear strength of "A" rivets is not very high.
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For the initial two rows, I used these buck rivets from VTS. Steve says these are a soft alloy.
http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/..._p/vts-826.htm
I'll be riveting a beefier rivet for the additional rows I'll be putting in this week.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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10-24-2010, 01:28 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master 
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,596
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I looked up the link and he is selling the "A" rivets (1100). You should use MS20470AD5-5 or 6 rivets (2117) available at any aircraft supply store for this application. Be sure and get a #5 470 rivet set.
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10-27-2010, 05:07 PM
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#16
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2 Rivet Member 
1959 22' Flying Cloud
Bishop
, California
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 48
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Rivet Question
Aerowood,
Not to hijack a thread but I have a rivet type question.
I have seen you post on this and another thread regarding correct sizing or strength of rivet. I need to remove and replace the door hinges on my 59 FC for reinforcement because the skin flexes as the door moves. What type of rivet should I be looking to use?
Thanks,
Tony
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10-28-2010, 10:33 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master 
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,596
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You could use several different types of rivet, aluminum, stainless steel or monel. the choice is yours.
Aluminum- MS20470AD5-X
Stainless- MS20613C5-X
Monel- MS20615-5M-X
X=length in 1/16" increments
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10-28-2010, 11:13 AM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member 
1959 22' Flying Cloud
Bishop
, California
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 48
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Thanks! Is there a special rivet set required?
Looks like you answered that question upthread.
Thanks again
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