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Old 03-30-2009, 06:58 PM   #1
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'64 interior skin

I'm replacing cracked interior skins on both sides of the door on a '64 safari, and fixing the causes'. The archives indicate these were .025 2024T3 alclad. Seems like there should have been a little more strenght between the door and the jalosie window than original. Has anyone beefed this area up. I'm thinking of adding flat stock or angle inside the bow frames and replacing the damaged interior skins with .032 or .040. Any advice? Any warnings?
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:29 PM   #2
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It must have been a cost-cutting move, my '59 is all .032 inside and out. The only .025 was the belly skin.

I don't think you'll have a problem with thicker skin. Not too sure about adding stock in the bow frames though.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:33 PM   #3
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Putback, do you have any pics of your cracked int skins? I have no problem inside, but I have a small crack coming up diagonally from the top of the Jalousie towards the front. It's another very narrow strip of aluminum between the front of the jalousie and the endcap seam on the exterior.

I found that the floor C-channel at the front of the door was not bolted through the front outrigger by the step. There was a bolt there, but it missed the outrigger altogether. That leaves all the stress in the plywood which showed signs of having flexed over time. I'm sure it caused the door to not work as well as it should have, as it allowed the whole doorway to shift.

Just one more thing to look for!

I wouldn't add thicker skin(and more weight) to fix a flexing issue if there's another cause for it. Beefing up the wall framing can be done without adding as much weight as the skin would.

Can you tell, I'm putting my AS on a weightwatchers diet.

Happy streaming, Rich
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:05 PM   #4
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Viking: I have the same C-channel/outrigger, door frame problem on mine. The bolt missed the outrigger by +-3/8", and the plywood was bad. My outrigger is good so I'm making an extension to weld along the forward edge and back to the frame. That should give a good anchor point. No pics of the interior cracks, I've scavanged the sections to beef up the window supports. Hence I'll have to replace the damaged panels with new. I also have an exterior crack started by the jalousie window. Lower left corner running diagonally down towards the door. Only about 1 1/2" so far. Narrow strip like yours going up, we're gonna have to find a way to fix these. I understand 2024T3 dos'nt weld well but I'm taking some old panel to a guy that thinks he can. I know an auto body guy that has an idea. Drill the end of the crack and JUST bevel the edges, use auto panel adhesive to back the damaged area with an aluminum patch, then fill the pinhole & crack with silver solder, smooth & buff? I'll try both on scrap, if it works I'll let you know. Luck, Leigh
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:42 PM   #5
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2024-T3 is not a weldable alloy. It will crack on each side of the weld with little to no load. Your best bet is to rivet on a repair doubler on either side. If you have the interior skin off then you could put the doubler on the inside and rivet it together with flush rivets and it would be hardly noticeable. Using adhesives will work to a small degree but the metal has to be acid etched and then alodined in order to achive a proper bond. I would back away from adhesives unless you use a hot bond with a vacumn clamp.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:46 PM   #6
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I also have an interior crack just above and to the right of the door. It looks like it has been there for many years. I had to replace the floor at the entrance, could the bad floor allowed the trailer to twist at the door causing the crack? At the moment I intend to live with the crack but would want to fix anything that might cause it to get worse.

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:31 PM   #7
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63 Silver: There's two '64s on this thread that originally had a poor attachment point on the rt side of the door. On mine the door frame and C-chanel were bolted to the plywood only. That was probably ok for the 1st 25 yrs! But after the plywood rotted about 2"s in from the edge there was no support for the door frame and frame bow. When I bought it you could push the side in & out by hand just rt of the door. I'm guessing the P O towing it on a dead axle and slaming the door to close it caused the cracks. Your '63 could be similar, but if you replaced that section of floor you probably fixed the cause. Somewhere on the forums I remember a post by Andy addressing this issue as common to early '60s. Have'nt found it yet.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:50 PM   #8
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In addition to the crack on the outside of my safari I noticed that the rivets all along the interior seams where the front endcap meets the ceiling and wall panels had mostly been replaced. It was apparent that they had been repaired over a period of time, as there were about three or four different kinds of rivets along with a couple of empty holes.

I suspect it was due to runninggear issues or a too heavy-duty tow vehicle used at some time.

Sound familiar?

Rich
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:48 PM   #9
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Very familiar, the P O had towed this rig rnd trip from NH to FL on the dead axle and badly cupped, out of balance tires. It raised cain with the int pop rivets and any exterior olympics. Only found 6 loose or leaking bucked rivets. That ended the Buck vs Olympic debate for me. Do your replacement end cap rivets appear to have an oversized body dia.? I'm guessing when I put the int skins back many of the original holes are going to be worn oversized. If its a problem gonna need a soloution. Larger rivet body or countersink head?
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:58 AM   #10
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I just drilled away without paying much attention to the sizes at the time. I expect that the holes were worn oversize by then anyway. I plan on drilling the holes to a larger diameter and trying to find rivets with a larger body, but small head size, if possible. I used a 1/8" drill to remove everything so I wouldn't be causing more damage than was already present.
Putback, do you have any pics yet? I would like to see what your safari looks like.

Rich
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:58 PM   #11
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Rich, the good news for you is that the original exterior brazier-head rivets were 1/8" shank diameter, but the new replacement universal head rivets that come in 1/8" shank diameter have smaller heads. To match the head size of a new universal rivet to the head size on the original brazier-head rivet, you need to go up to 5/32 on the universal. The head size is very close to the original, but the shank size is bigger, so if you have any original holes that have elongated, you now have a great opportunity to drill them up to 5/32 and replace with the bigger-shanked rivets.

Actually, Kip suggests using a #21 drill bit which is even slightly bigger than 5/32 when you are ready for your final rivet placement, he says that the shaft of the solid rivet expands to fill the hole no problem. He is the Master, and as his humble Learner, I have found his words to be wise and true.

Interesting to hear about the channel bolt missing the outrigger by the front entry, I haven't torn apart that part of my trailer yet, and won't until NEXT winter, but when I do, I now have something to look out for.

-Marcus
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIKING View Post
Putback, do you have any pics yet? I would like to see what your safari looks like.

Rich
Yeah! '64 Safari pictures, '64 Safari pictures!!!!! Please????
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:32 PM   #13
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That's great news Marcus. Does VTS have those?

The bolt thing was a surprise to me. It may be something you could reinforce from below.

Thanks, Rich
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:30 PM   #14
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The only rivets I've seen at VTS are all blind rivets-- the Olympics, the wide-head belly-pan rivets, and the interior 1/8 pop rivets.

You can get the solid rivets from Airparts Inc or Aircraft Spruce. When you're ready to order let me know and I can tell you the right sizes, or there are several threads about it too, one was started by Frank in January of 2008.
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Old 04-03-2009, 04:13 PM   #15
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Another place with a decent selection of rivets is McMaster-Carr

http://www.mcmaster.com

One caveat..... they can be pricey
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Old 04-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #16
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. . . another caveat . . . .be sure you get the 2117-T4 alloy, not the 1100F. They have both.
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Old 04-03-2009, 05:55 PM   #17
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Great info, thanks. I have the McMaster-Carr catalog here at work, all three inches thick of it with pages so thin you can see through them. 3776 pages of fun stuff!

Thanks, Rich
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Old 04-04-2009, 02:56 PM   #18
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Got some updates. 1st, Areowood, I figured you were right on the welding. But, had to let the guy try on a piece of .032 scrap. It took steady pressure, but set one edge on a palm sander put pressure on the other and it broke next to the weld. Areo 1, Putback 0! Borrowed an good set of mikes', the int. panels are .032, not .025. If its usefull to anyone I have a jay-cee catalog in front of me. It shows 1/8 Brazier head rivets head dia. .312. 5/32 Mod Brazier head dia. .312. And the 5/32 Unv. head with a dia of .312. All head heights w/in .010. Viking, I can't imagine why anyone would want pics of this puss case! But I took some, especially a closeup of the outrigger / bow / doorframe alignment. That may be helpfull to folks. I'll try to post tonite. right now I'm gonna TRY to install my 1st section of new floor. Finished the Sat "honey do" list, wife gave me the rest of the day off!!!
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Old 04-04-2009, 07:09 PM   #19
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Here's some pics. After considering the position of the bow & door frame relative to the entry step support it apeers the original design never intended for the door frame to direct attach to the outrigger. That leaves the door frame and bow anchored to 5/8" plywood 3/4" from the outside floor edge. There must have been a good reason, maybe vibration telagraphing from the steel frame to the aluminum causing fatigue? The front holddown plate is a direct attach from steel frame to the aluminum body. I'm still going to extend the outrigger forward 2" to lock it all up solid, unless someone warns me off?
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Old 04-04-2009, 08:20 PM   #20
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Sounds like a good idea to me. I had several places where the bolt was through the "C" channel and plywood floor but was just outboard of the outrigger, I was able to dill closer to the inboard side of the "C" channel and pick up the outrigger though.
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