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Old 01-11-2007, 03:28 PM   #1
1950 Flying Cloud 7039
 
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1950 21' Flying Cloud
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1950 Flying Cloud panel "lip"

I am replacing some front panels on my FC and the originals have a 1/4 inch for lack of a better term 'lip'. This lip is on the down side of the panel. If the edges of the of the panels were striaght I could use a brake. How do I get the bend? Thanks. Gene
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:54 AM   #2
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brake

I,m not sure I follow you but I'll try to answer your question. If I reacll the panels (as you stated above) have about a .250 "lip" bent at about 10 degrees or so along the bottom edge. This amount of bend will give you no problems as you wrap the panel around the contour of the trailer, just a tad more resistence on the broke side. I think that these are straight panels but I'm not sure. If they are not straight but have a large radius, you will need a flange roller. I'm not sure if a portable version is commercially avalible, but I have a homemade handheld one the I would be willing to draw up plans for.
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Old 01-13-2007, 11:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
I,m not sure I follow you but I'll try to answer your question. If I reacll the panels (as you stated above) have about a .250 "lip" bent at about 10 degrees or so along the bottom edge. This amount of bend will give you no problems as you wrap the panel around the contour of the trailer, just a tad more resistence on the broke side. I think that these are straight panels but I'm not sure. If they are not straight but have a large radius, you will need a flange roller. I'm not sure if a portable version is commercially avalible, but I have a homemade handheld one the I would be willing to draw up plans for.
Aerowood,

Plans would be great! Or least a photo or two.
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:43 PM   #4
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Aerowood,

Plans would be great! Or least a photo or two.
I will take a couple of pictures of it when I go back to work next Wed. It currently resides in my work toolbox.

Kip
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:27 AM   #5
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I got called into work today so here's the pictures. The bearing width is the size of the flange. The spacing between the bearing is the same as the sheet thickness to be flanged. Diameter of the bearings is not important.
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:30 AM   #6
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Great tool, great technique. This is what the forum is all about.
Don
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:36 AM   #7
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flange

I did find this one at www.aircraft-tools.com for $12.95. P/N FT100
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Old 01-14-2007, 12:55 PM   #8
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Kip,

Thanks for the photo post. That really helps!!
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Old 01-15-2007, 01:38 PM   #9
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Aero,

Thanks for the reply. This is what I was needing. I could not find anything on the link you provided. The part number did not show up in a search. I did not know what jet to choose.

The side are not straight. I am adding a few pictures (I hope). I guess I may try and make my own.
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Old 01-15-2007, 02:33 PM   #10
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Aircraft tool

Sorry about the incorrect web site, I did not check. here is the correct link

Aircraft Tool Supply Company

type in "ft100" on the search eng.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:16 PM   #11
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Aero,

Can you give a brief explination on how to use the tool. Do I have to hold the tool at the desired angle as I draw it along the length of the panel? This tool list "Flanges from 1" and up.....Adjustable from 0 to .050". This seems to contradict itself. The panels on my 1950 flying cloud have a 1/2 flange at a slight angle on the top side which is covered by the overlapping panels. This I figured I could skip. The bottom has the 1/4 flange at a slightly greater (tighter) angle. To keep this consistent along the entire edge by pulling the hand tool appears that it may take much practice. I don't know how much aluminum I can spare. I hope I can learn fast or it is not that hard. Thanks again. Gene
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:07 PM   #12
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Well I,m not sure how the commercail version works as I,ve never used one. I made mine about 30 years ago when you could not buy one. An "old timer" showed me how to make, and use one, and now I guess I'm the "old timer" myself. The tools in the picture are made of Boeing 727 flap track carrage bearings with the stud built into the bearing, but any .250 wide bearings will work for a .250 flange, you will just need to bolt them on. Make sure the handle is made of some materail that won't bend, like a piece of square steel, solid, or tube stock, just as long as its ridgid. The ones in the photo are made from rectangle aluminum tubing. Make sure that the sheet stock fits snuggly between the two bearings, and against the handle. Holding the tool a few degrees past your desired bend just pull it along the edge of the stock. Do not make very many passes or the materail will work harden and crack. It only takes a couple of trys to get the feel for it and you can become the "old timer" yourself. Good Luck

Kip
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Old 01-16-2007, 07:45 PM   #13
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Well I made a tool. I used bearings from some roller blade wheels. I think they are a little larger than I need. I couple of test runs and I was getting better. Now to get the nerve up to do it to the new cut panels. Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:40 AM   #14
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A bench mounted roller is available, with all the different dies around 1500 to 2000 dollars.
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Wow -- the 'ol concave panel bend illusion trick! A very nice photo! So, I can't figure it out -- where does the straight edge go -- top or bottom?

I almost think you'd be better strapping that tool to a bench and holding your panel with two hands and just slightly pushing up on the panel while you run it back and forth putting in the slight bend.

That way you could work areas that aren't bent enough. I'm guessing (although I guessed these panels were straight mind you) when you rivet it on it will conform to the other surface quite a bit for a little correction?

__
It may not be evident, but both sides of the panels are curved. One more than the other.
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:19 AM   #16
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I've bought a vice mounted roller form Harbor Freight for under $200. I've been practicing with this machine and I think it will do a great job.
Don
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi View Post
I've bought a vice mounted roller form Harbor Freight for under $200. I've been practicing with this machine and I think it will do a great job.
Don
Cool. Please make me up a couple of replacement replacement panels. I did the best I could with the method Aero mentioned. That worked pretty well. I did have some "puckering" a long the seam as I riveted them. I like to believe that I have learned a lot since those panel replacements and would have not made the same mistakes in the riveting. But you have to move forward and not bog down in the little (or not too big of) imperfections.

There have been several other times I wish I had a tool of the sort. Currently I need to make an inside frame for my rear oval window. It would be best that I could relieve the edges with a flange, even if ever so slight. The slight flange allows the edges of flat panels not to show the imperfections of how they lay flush to another panel, even if that panel is a one inch wide frame around the window.

Other than a man needs a new tool every now and then, just because, what are you plans/needs for it?

Gene
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:27 PM   #18
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Gene, I'm going to have to replace some window frames also. So I will have to figure out how to create those angled edges also. The question I'm looking at how to solve is the corners. To me it looks like the metal will have to be shrunk to make those corner bends. Do you have any ideas on that. The EAA experimental Aircraft Association has a web site that has hints and how to on it. Maybe be can find some EAA people that are in The Forums group that will be willing to give us suggestions.
I won't be trying to make the window frame for some time yet. But I would be more that willing to share experiments and ideas with you on this.
Don
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:32 PM   #19
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When you put the bead in the panels did you create a bend in the panel to somewhat match the shape for the panel or did you keep the panel straight? In my experiments I've found that I needed to put some bend in the panel at the same time as I was forming the bead. I think this would keep from creating the puckers. I'm sure of your application so I am just guessing here.
Don
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:18 PM   #20
1950 Flying Cloud 7039
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi View Post
When you put the bead in the panels did you create a bend in the panel to somewhat match the shape for the panel or did you keep the panel straight? In my experiments I've found that I needed to put some bend in the panel at the same time as I was forming the bead. I think this would keep from creating the puckers. I'm sure of your application so I am just guessing here.
Don
I put the flange on while the panels flat. The puckers did not show up until the rivets. Just bending it and dry fitting with the clecos did not cause the puckers. I guess there is enough play with clecos. Maybe if I did try to hold the panel in a bend as I applied the flange, then it would not have puckered.

I pre-drilled and clecoed the panels in place first. I think I also put a rivet in every other or three holes and then back filled. I think this was my mistake. When dry fit it looked good, but the rivets bind it into place and even the slightest "extra" has to go somewhere (pucker). You just do not have this happen on flat panels.

I would drill and rivet as I go from one end to the other and not pre-drill if I had to do it again. As you rivet the panels, if you predrill the holes, they will shift as you rivet and not line up. I am not sure this will solve everything either. At the time I had all the panels cut and clecoed in place. I did not have any spare aluminum to redo the segemnts after they puckered. Nor the will to redo them.

If you experiment I would think you need to use the same alloy and thickness as the final product as alloys behave differently. Also, you need to work with a like size and cut panel. What may work on a smaller or less curved cut may not be indicitive of what may happen.

All you are doing is reminding me how long it has been since then and how NOT so far I have progressed. But good luck.
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