I'm thinking of building a dinette

[Stefrobrts]

Well, here we are in the dead of winter and we can't really sneak off to go anywhere interesting for a few months because of other commitments, so I'm just dreaming of cool things I could do to my trailer. I'm thinking about building a dinette.

Those who have seen pics of my trailer might be thinking, but it already has a dinette. True, but we end up with the dinette folded down into a bed for most of our trips, because it makes such a great spot to stretch out and lounge. Of course at dinner time we turn it back into a table, and then usually fold it back down after we're done with dinner, cards, etc. The gaucho only gets pulled out at bedtime and folded up in the morning, because with it out it's too tight to move around and use the kitchen, bathroom, etc.

So I am thinking of leaving the front dinette in the folded down position and using it as the full time bed, and then removing the side gaucho and building a dinette just big enough for two. It would only need to be half as deep as the current table is. Just big enough for dinner and the occasional board game.

Only trick is I would want to be able to remove the gaucho and put it in storage intact, and save it in case I want to return the Caravel to original. The dinette may be a little tight on footroom because the battery and the wheelwell will be under it against the wall as they are now, but I think it's all do-able. It's so original I'm hesitant to mess it up. My husband thinks I'm nuts and should just leave it alone. I think I could get all the measurements and build it in the garage and pop it in there in time for our spring travels. I may be nuts. What do you guys think?

[roger n cindy]

hello, were new to the board and don't want to offend anyone so we wont rule on your sanity ! as to the dining idea it sounds great to me. we have a completely original and very decent interior in our bubble , it however dose not suit us. i feel everything in such a small unit should serve at least two purposes. i'll be watching this thread to see if i should announce remodeling the "palace" or keeping it secret. our last unit was a 67 caravell and they do get tight with the gaucho pulled out. good luck with the dinette, retain the old one for company and remember " if momma aint happy aint nobody happy ".
roger n cindy

[j54mark]

Why not remove the gaucho and install a small table and a couple of chairs - maybe even a pair of Leg-O-Matic chairs that could be folded up and stored away, if necessary. The chairs would have many other uses besides just a place to sit while eating, and the table could be moved if in the way as well.

In other words, why install ANYTHING permanently if it will only seat two?

Mark

[Stefrobrts]

I hadn't thought about using a table and chairs. I would have to find a way to hold them down while we were travelling. I was thinking a more permanent bench so I could build two drawers into the base of each seat for canned goods, which are currently stored in the drawers under the gaucho. And of course I would still need a cover of come sort under the table to hide the wheelwell and battery compartment, which are under the gaucho now. I'll have to think about that one. Good idea.

Roger & Cindy, I know what you mean. I hate the idea of messing with something original, but then again I see the potential to make our stays in it even more enjoyable. And since I foresee us having it for many years to come, it seems like if I can make changes without damaging it, that would be ok. Let me know what kind of changes youre thinking of in the Bubble, maybe it'll give me some other ideas too.

[j54mark]

You could build a table with a single fold-down leg that attaches to the wall with a friction-fit bracket. It would look finished and permanent in place, but take down to size that could be easily stored away, should you need the space for some other activity. That with a couple of Leg-o-matic chairs would be a handsome, flexible setup, and leave your coach virtually unchanged should you want to go back to the gaucho.

Would not give you any drawers, though.

Mark

[Janet H]

I agree with you about the ideal floor plan in a small TT - for 2 - being a bed in front and dinette on the side. Just keep the original parts.

Any interest in a slightly used, somewhat damged orange table top from an argosy? If not it's headed to the dump.

[overlander63]

Stephanie, why not swap the gaucho and dinette?
Just an idea...
Make your trailer a side-dinette, didn't Airstream do that anyway for some trailers?
Terry

[Stefrobrts]

Well, the original dinette seats four, so it would be too wide to have next to the kitchen, that's why I'm considering a shorter table and benches, just big enough for two. There would still be room to move around if it doesn't stick out any further than the current gaucho. Admittedly, room is pretty tight in there anyway. I am just tired of the routine of putting the dinette up and down and making the gaucho into a bed and putting it away again.

I'm going to go out and take a closer look at the gaucho and get some measurements, and see how it's attached to the trailer and think about this some more.

[Stefrobrts]

Looks like the current Gaucho is 75 inches long, and comes out 32 inches from the wall. The first 16 inches out from the wall contains the battery, water hookup, fusebox, and wheelwell. The 16 inches after that are the drawers under the gaucho. The whole unit is 13 inches tall and looks like it is held down by a dozen screws into the floor and probably three where the top frame members touch the wall. It looks like because it is only 13 inches tall it shouldn't be a problem to unscrew it and remove it from the trailer intact and put it in the storage shed.

So I could replace it with two benches and a table, but there would only be the outer 16 inches of room for people's feet. The 16 inches closest to the wall would still enclose the service area. However the bench could be as much as the full 32 inches wide, though from measuring my computer chair which is pretty comfy, I think I could get away with a little less, maybe 22-25 inches wide which would still be plenty of room.

I found this thread with some great pictures of another members homemade dinette
Seeking Plans For Dinette

Unfortunately I found some water on the floor at the base of the wall behind the wheelwell, so I went and bought a canopy to put over the trailer - which I had been meaning to do all winter but kept putting it off. Looks like I won't get that assembled for a couple days, but then the trailer should stay dry inside while I try to find and seal the leak. Dang it!

[smily]

Go here:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...&threadid=5116

There are plenty of pictures and I am going to help a member with his retro fit dinette soon..
Smily

[Stefrobrts]

Very nice, Smiley! Did you find any surprises in the construction? Anything you'd recommend I do different since I'm only in the planning stage? It looks very nice.

[Pahaska]

I say go for it. The resulting dinette would be almost exactly like the one in my former 2003 International and also like the one in the current 22' Safari. In both cases, the seats are 38" wide, but the footroom is about half of that, limited by the wheel well. For 2 persons, that works perfectly well. To watch TV, we could swivel around with our backs to the wall and have the whole seat width available.

[roger n cindy]

stephany, hi. were in the pre planning stages as yet, we want to make changes but don't know what. this forum seems like it will be great help in many ways. were polishing the exterior at the moment and want to post some pictures as soon as the sun comes out and we can see if we have swirl marks to deal with. were lucky enough to have a shop to work in, unfortinately heating a 40x60 shop isn't cheep ! and in season we travel about 24 thousand miles attending car shows so must do everything in a few short months of winter. we love the 57 bubble but are looking for something pre 1948 so we can drag it into the shows with us ! your remodel sounds like what were striving for. although we sleep in our units we eat out 99% of the time, dishwater tears my hands up. maby gutting and going to something themed to the 50s ??? roger n cindy

[rluhr]

Hey Stef, I think you might have a great idea there. As you know, I have a nearly identical trailer to yours and I've already done some small amounts of work on the gaucho area (adding drawer slides, re-building drawers). So here's a few random thoughts:

1) I think it's do-able.

2) Based on having sat in the 22' CCD, where the wheelwell intrudes into the dinette area, I think you'll find the wheelwell annoying but livable. It will dramatically cut down on foot room but you're such a cute couple I'm sure you'll enjoy playing "footsies" with each other!

3) The dinette Ken Smilie designed is really slick but might be too heavy for a Caravel. We have a very limited GVWR due to axle restrictions (unless you've replaced yours). For example, note that in the Caravel, the cushions have a 1/4" plywood sheet built into them. This cushion/plywood unit rests on an open lightweight frame, rather than a regular cushion resting on solid piece of 3/4" wood as shown in Ken's.

I suggest thinking long and hard about the materials going into this dinette, starting with spruce 1x1 framing and ending with a measured amount of 1/4" and 3/8" plywood.

4) The biggest problem will probably be re-routing the plumbing lines. In my Caravel, I have a "water main" from the pump beneath the dinette, running under the gaucho between the drawers and the wheelwell. I wouldn't want to run it beneath the floor, so probably my solution would be to build a little chase for it, which leads to Item # 5 ....

5) My wheelwell cover (beneath the gaucho) is made of thin tan plastic or fiberglass, and it is cracked in several places, exposing yellow fiberglass insulation. Since you'll be exposing this, I would suggest you re-build the wheelwell cover with something more durable and attractive, such a wood (with about five coats of polyurethane or vinyl floor material, for durability) or metal. This will get into some slightly tricky fabrication but you don't have a choice since it will be so (a) obvious; (b) exposed to shoes and dirt.

I would make the new water line chase and the new fabricated wheelwell as a single unit. With a little thought it could be very cool looking. Make sure it will still fit if/when you replace the original gaucho later. You wouldn't want to have to go back to that ugly plastic wheelwell.

6) From what I've seen in my Caravel, removing the entire gaucho assembly and replacing it later should be no problem. Mostly it screws to the floor and the adjoining dinette frame. You'll have to remove it in pieces so be sure to label every piece clearly and save the screws!

Now, that leak you mentioned really worries me. PM me if you want to talk leaks -- I just located and solved about a half dozen leaks in my Caravel. And beware the tarp -- wind flapping it against your polished exterior will result in horrible black aluminum oxide marks on the skin by springtime!

Good luck

-- RL

[smily]

Hmmm, remove 100 pound gaucho install 70 lb Dinette, am I missing something here?

What is the issues with weight?

I too removed original components to do Dinette, surely a wash wouldnt you think?

Smily

[Stefrobrts]

I can always weight the gaucho when we takle it out and use it as a basis for trying not to exceed that weight with the new unit. I had thought about weight distribution and decided it was a wash.

Rich, you make a good point about the wheelwell cover. Mine is also plastic and cracked here and there. I was thinking of making a box over the whole area, basically the whole area behind the drawers now, which would cover the wheelwell, water system, and battery. I also wondered how much work it would be to make a nice aluminum cover to replace the plastic one on the wheelwell, but that would be for later. Got to try not to make this too involved to begin with - I have a tendancy for my projects to go spiralling out of control!

The leaks worry me too. The canopy we bought for it is a tarp over a metal frame, like a small carport. So nothing will actually touch the trailer skin. I hope to have it up before the week is out.

Then I can see if there are some seams that need resealing, or I'm thinking I should look into the gaskets around the pipe vents, or the marker lights. I'm trying to get in touch with the previous owner to ask him which he did most recently, because I know he did a lot of work to it. Anyway, hopefully I can stop the leak and then use some Stop-Rot on the floor to fix the wood, and the damage won't be too bad. I'm optimistic because it is a small area, and I know the previous owner kept it under cover when it wasn't on the road, so it hasn't been just sitting outside rotting away for years. If nothing else just keeping it under cover when we're not using it will be good for it.

Fixing the leaks and replacing the gaucho also sounds like a good time to look into some cork flooring...Since everything will be pulled apart anyway.

[rluhr]

Ken, I think the gaucho in a '68 Caravel is much lighter than the 70's and later models. There's almost nothing to it.

It is basically a light frame of 1x1 wood members plus a piece of 1/4" plywood at the rear, and a piece of 3/8" plywood for the face frame. The left side is the 1/4" wall dividing the living space from the bath closet. The right side is actually part of the existing dinette. The cushions are backed with 1/4" plywood for stiffness. There is no top except the 6"x75" hinged piece along the wall.

Most of the weight is the drawers themselves, which are simple boxes made of 3/8" plywood. I haven't weighed my gaucho but I would guess it is in the range of 50-60 lbs, cushions included.

The weight sensitivity of a '68 Caravel is more than you might think. I believe (but can't find the source now) that the original axle was rated to 2,800 lbs GAWR, which with a 2,400 lb empty weight minus tongue weight, leaves a pretty tight useful net carrying capacity.

-- RL

[Stefrobrts]

Hmm, more arguements in favor of a new axle...

I agree, the gaucho's construction is extremely light. After looking at it, I'm surprised it supports as much abuse as it gets, being used as a couch and a bed. The piece down the center of it, from the dinette to the bathroom wall, is 1/4 plywood, almost like an I-Beam which braces it and supports most of the load along with the face frame. It's kind of ingenious really, because they mangaed to make it fold out into a full size bed without any tricky framing, slides, etc.

[minkus]

I am glad to see this thread at this time, as I am just about to start a gaucho to dinette transformation.

We have a 67 tradewind and I just hate the front sofa thing. Sitting sholder to sholder with my wife, and eating on that fold up/out table just isn't for me. My wife on the other hand hates the dinette idea because as a kid, she was always jamed in first and wasn't let out by her older brothers. Ah, the trama of childhood.

The big problems as already mentioned seem to be 1) original vs. modified 2) the center mounted water tank and pump and 3) weight of new construction.

Like with that link above, most dinettes seem to be very square. I have removed the sofa frame and really like the curve of the front wall. So I want to do a "dinner booth" thing where the dinette makes a continous even curve around the wall. I can continue the seat over the water tank to make it continous. Then I think a round table that is removeable and MAYBE converts to a bed.

So I will keep all the stuff I take out and tell myself I can always make it original again. Water tank kinda has to stay there with the seat over it. Sooooo, how do I make it light enough? I see above the spruce and thin plywood idea. All my stuff is going to curve so that will be a pain. I wish there was some kind of high strength composite stuff.

Anyone know where I can buy some cheap carbon fiber 2x4's?

[thenewkid64]

Minkus,

Your curves will have to be wood, but you could see if the local screen room place will sell you some aluminum box shaped tubing. It will be strong, easy to cut, and lightweight. Not to mention it will never rot! You can skin it with the luan and maybe come out with no gain in weight!