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Old 07-20-2020, 08:47 AM   #1
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Dinette

Hey all. Noticed the end cap of the dinette booth furniture coming off on the end near the entry door (2020 Bambi 22FB). Removed cushions and it looks like this part is snapped onto the plywood on one end and screwed into the aluminum on the other. However, I think they screwed it too far left (probably to screw into a rib) and it snaps off from the plywood as the trailer travels. Also damaged the laminate a bit. See photos. A few questions:

-Could I screw into aluminum closer to plywood or I need a rib behind it?

OR

-Could I simply not screw the piece into the wall and simply snap the end in? The end cap would I'm sure stay in place but would the furniture be secure enough?

Also, with either option, could I just close the old screw hole by putting in a rivet?

Thanks all!
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:39 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
Hey all. Noticed the end cap of the dinette booth furniture coming off on the end near the entry door (2020 Bambi 22FB). Removed cushions and it looks like this part is snapped onto the plywood on one end and screwed into the aluminum on the other. However, I think they screwed it too far left (probably to screw into a rib) and it snaps off from the plywood as the trailer travels. Also damaged the laminate a bit. See photos. A few questions:

-Could I screw into aluminum closer to plywood or I need a rib behind it?

OR

-Could I simply not screw the piece into the wall and simply snap the end in? The end cap would I'm sure stay in place but would the furniture be secure enough?

Also, with either option, could I just close the old screw hole by putting in a rivet?

Thanks all!
Hi steilkurve, I will have a look at mine but I don't think it has pulled out yet!

I did find one rivet missing and one loose rivets both near the ceiling at the floor to ceiling storage closet.

I am going to take some air out of my tires since they are running at max pressure and according to Goodyear, they should be aired up based on weight applied to them. Apparently, the added stiffness from an over inflated tire can have an adverse affect on the trailer.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:20 PM   #3
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Posting here info I put up in another unrelated thread on this problem in case others have had similar experiences and can help. (PN_NB knows all this. ;-))

Dug up a video of my AS from last Fall. See attached. In this screen grab, we see that the plywood/end cap is right up against the wall. Trailer was new at the time.

Contrast that with the photo from last weekend, it's moved by I'd say 3/4 of an inch away from the wall. Reattaching original photo from upthread for easy comparison.

Something else is going on. It's gotta be the whole piece of furniture sliding. I've encountered a brace holding down the kitchen cabinet that was half screwed in. Maybe that's the problem here to. Furniture wasn't secured enough and pulled away from the wall event time we traveled.

I'll go and inspect my trailer more closely and report back. If anyone has had similar issues, do jump in!
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Old 07-21-2020, 12:26 PM   #4
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Managed to go inspect my trailer more closely over lunch.

The dinette is divided in 3 sections. The problematic section has pretty much come completely loose. It's now only attached to the bottom part of the middle section of the dinette. Pretty sure I could detach it easily by hand with little force.

https://youtu.be/_G1sYkHqVcE

That's because, as far as I can tell, aside from the plastic insert screwed into the wall, it is only secured through STAPLES!!! Yes, staples. Stapled to the middle section and stapled to wood brackets screwed into the floor.

As I was inspecting, I also noticed the plastic cover on top of the wheel well under the dinette bench was loose. Looks only secured with a dab of caulking... Questionable build quality.

Debating going to the dealer to have this fixed, which may not be now given it's high season and COVID is slowing them down, or doing it myself (at least temporarily).

I was thinking of removing the seat part of the booth to install brackets screwed into the floor in the wheel well area and then screwing this section into the middle one and into the wood brackets in the shoe storage area (see photo).

3 questions:

1) Is using screws a problem, especially through the wood brackets into the plywood? With movement, could it make the laminate chip on the other (visible) side? Of course, I'd use the appropriate length.

2) How tight should I make this fix? Is some flex better to avoid stuff braking?

3) What's the screw length recoed into the floor?

Any advice/info on securing AS cabinets welcome.
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
Managed to go inspect my trailer more closely over lunch.

The dinette is divided in 3 sections. The problematic section has pretty much come completely loose. It's now only attached to the bottom part of the middle section of the dinette. Pretty sure I could detach it easily by hand with little force.

https://youtu.be/_G1sYkHqVcE

That's because, as far as I can tell, aside from the plastic insert screwed into the wall, it is only secured through STAPLES!!! Yes, staples. Stapled to the middle section and stapled to wood brackets screwed into the floor.

As I was inspecting, I also noticed the plastic cover on top of the wheel well under the dinette bench was loose. Looks only secured with a dab of caulking... Questionable build quality.

Debating going to the dealer to have this fixed, which may not be now given it's high season and COVID is slowing them down, or doing it myself (at least temporarily).

I was thinking of removing the seat part of the booth to install brackets screwed into the floor in the wheel well area and then screwing this section into the middle one and into the wood brackets in the shoe storage area (see photo).

3 questions:

1) Is using screws a problem, especially through the wood brackets into the plywood? With movement, could it make the laminate chip on the other (visible) side? Of course, I'd use the appropriate length.

2) How tight should I make this fix? Is some flex better to avoid stuff braking?

3) What's the screw length recoed into the floor?

Any advice/info on securing AS cabinets welcome.
I wouldn't allow for anymore than 3/4" into the floor, go for a fatter screw to get a good bite in the plywood. You don't want to hit anything hidden under the floor. If you use angle brackets secured to the floor and then to the bench side, you could adjust the height and preload the floor while putting the these crews in to take away some of the "loading while walking" out of the picture. Doing this with the floor connection will help you get the wall plugs back into position as it will take the stress off those plugs and allow the glue or product to set up.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:52 PM   #6
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I wouldn't allow for anymore than 3/4" into the floor, go for a fatter screw to get a good bite in the plywood. You don't want to hit anything hidden under the floor. If you use angle brackets secured to the floor and then to the bench side, you could adjust the height and preload the floor while putting the these crews in to take away some of the "loading while walking" out of the picture. Doing this with the floor connection will help you get the wall plugs back into position as it will take the stress off those plugs and allow the glue or product to set up.
Again, great advice. Thanks. Would you use screws where they used staples? Especially to attach the wooden bracket to the furniture like in this photo. Or do they use staples for a purpose (other than speed and cost), like some flexibility?

I will use brackets in a concealed area near the wheel well for extra support. Here, as it's kinda of visible and exposed to some humidity (shoe storage), so I'd rather not.
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Old 07-21-2020, 04:49 PM   #7
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If exposed fasteners are out of the question then a smaller fastener can be used from the inside the challenge is get them to bite into the particleboard. You could drill a tiny pilot hole without going through outer face of the bench. Just use the tape on the bit trick as a depth guide. So use a bead of PL400 between the inner face and that wood that is screwed to the floor. The. Set your brackets on top of that wood and work from there. Use non corrosive fasteners and brackets to avoid rust.

I hope this makes sense
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:47 PM   #8
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I was in the trailer today putting the bed back together and went to check my dinette bench out. It seems that there is significant movement when I step on the floor next to the bench. The squishiness of the floor feels like a lack of reinforcement in the center corridor. I can easily get 1/4" of movement between the wall and the wood bench connection. If I pull on the bench, it feels solid in my case but there is definitely movement in the floor. Perhaps the span spacing on the 2020 is greater due to the added width of the trailer, allowing the plywood to flex more than in my 2019? This would explain the 3/4" gap that you are seeing at the wall connection

After seeing this, I think lower the air pressure in the tires would be an improvement overall but reinstalling the cabinet while preloading the floor should have the biggest impact on that problem.
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Old 07-21-2020, 07:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
I was in the trailer today putting the bed back together and went to check my dinette bench out. It seems that there is significant movement when I step on the floor next to the bench. The squishiness of the floor feels like a lack of reinforcement in the center corridor. I can easily get 1/4" of movement between the wall and the wood bench connection. If I pull on the bench, it feels solid in my case but there is definitely movement in the floor. Perhaps the span spacing on the 2020 is greater due to the added width of the trailer, allowing the plywood to flex more than in my 2019? This would explain the 3/4" gap that you are seeing at the wall connection

After seeing this, I think lower the air pressure in the tires would be an improvement overall but reinstalling the cabinet while preloading the floor should have the biggest impact on that problem.
Thanks for checking Peter. Thatís helpful.

That would make sense. Every time we walk the corridor, it pulls the bench away from the wall. The staples are no match for that pressure on a regular basis and the wood piece on the floor stops movement only in the other direction.

Thought about it some more. Iíll put two angled brackets on the plywood partition between the show storage and wheel well. That should be sufficient to stop the lateral movement. Iíll then reattach the wall fastener after applying some PL400 as you suggest. I think Iíll fasten the bench to the wood bracket on the floor with my nail gun. Ditto to the middle section of the bench. I feel thatíll allow some flex and prevent other parts of the bench to loosen if I bolt the bottom down too tight.

Will look into tire pressure. Only hesitation is that might create more resistance which may impact range a tad.
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
I was in the trailer today putting the bed back together and went to check my dinette bench out. It seems that there is significant movement when I step on the floor next to the bench. The squishiness of the floor feels like a lack of reinforcement in the center corridor. I can easily get 1/4" of movement between the wall and the wood bench connection. If I pull on the bench, it feels solid in my case but there is definitely movement in the floor. Perhaps the span spacing on the 2020 is greater due to the added width of the trailer, allowing the plywood to flex more than in my 2019? This would explain the 3/4" gap that you are seeing at the wall connection

After seeing this, I think lower the air pressure in the tires would be an improvement overall but reinstalling the cabinet while preloading the floor should have the biggest impact on that problem.
So I started work to fix this today. Good news, pretty sure the issue has nothing to do with the hitch. Floor sags towards the wall. When they installed the cabinet they must have forced the bench down despite the uneven floor. Created pressure on the on the other side with a teeter totter effect. Staples werenít enough for that. Eventually gave.

So I levelled the bench by installing two angled brackets. I also secured the end section to the middle one with screws. AS had used staples there too. Must have been a special.staples that week. ;-)

Next Iíll screw to the wood bracket on the other end and try to shim the 3/8 gap close to the wall to not put all the weight on the brackets.

One thing Iím unsure of is if Iíll tes crew to the wall. I did PL the plastic fastener as you suggested but now that the bench is level, it doesnít align with the whole as well. Donít want to apply undue stress there. May screw it loose and leave it to the dealer to handle.
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:38 PM   #11
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I was hoping that it was the floor movement that made this issue show up. You can see what they did to install the bench and how it could have been avoided if they preloaded the floor and then made a bench that fit in the space provided. It's those little details that makes me so frustrated. Otherwise, it is a great trailer

Good to hear that you are making some progress. With the floor connection taken care of. And the vertical wood has been glued to the plugs, things are still out of alignment?

Are there any mating surfaces inside the bench that could be combined to secure the rear section to the middle section. If there is and you are willing and able to use screws, you could suck them together to help with alignment at the wall. However, it's hard to screw into the particle board and get a good bite but a clean hole with a bolt/nylock and fender washers will keep things together.

I would have to think about a nice clean solution for the plastic plugs, but my initial thought is to make a plate that goes on the visible side and maybe runs the entire length of the vertical and curves to follow the inner wall. Then another plate on the inside to suit the available space. Then figure out a concealed fastener between the plates. This would grab plastic plugs. Or further to that, I would pull the bench out and replace the vertical trim (attached to the wall) with a channel bent to follow the wall contour and fasten through the sides of this channel. That would look nice and could be anodized aluminum. Just a thought but I will have a look at mine this weekend.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:41 PM   #12
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With the floor connection taken care of. And the vertical wood has been glued to the plugs, things are still out of alignment?
Things are aligned. The bench is sitting solidly on the floor, itís as close to the wall as I can get it and itís tight with the middle section of the bench. Only thing is the whole in the wall for the plug. Itís now slightly too low because Iíve raised the bench to make it level as opposed to following the sagging floor.

Quote:
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Are there any mating surfaces inside the bench that could be combined to secure the rear section to the middle section. If there is and you are willing and able to use screws, you could suck them together to help with alignment at the wall.
If by middle section you mean the one between the section next to the bed and the one that went loose, yes. I was able to screw the plywood from one end to a wood bracket from the other. Thatís another thing that was just stapled together with no support under it whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
I would have to think about a nice clean solution for the plastic plugs, but my initial thought is to make a plate that goes on the visible side and maybe runs the entire length of the vertical and curves to follow the inner wall.
I can screw the plug to the wall but Iíll likely wonít tighten too much. Iím afraid it would pull the bench down with the whole being lower. Any way, the angle brackets do the bulk of the fastening. I think this will now just be an extra layer of security to keep things in place.

Will bring back photos from my next work session at the trailer!
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:49 PM   #13
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Things are aligned. The bench is sitting solidly on the floor, itís as close to the wall as I can get it and itís tight with the middle section of the bench. Only thing is the whole in the wall for the plug. Itís now slightly too low because Iíve raised the bench to make it level as opposed to following the sagging floor.



If by middle section you mean the one between the section next to the bed and the one that went loose, yes. I was able to screw the plywood from one end to a wood bracket from the other. Thatís another thing that was just stapled together with no support under it whatsoever.



I can screw the plug to the wall but Iíll likely wonít tighten too much. Iím afraid it would pull the bench down with the whole being lower. Any way, the angle brackets do the bulk of the fastening. I think this will now just be an extra layer of security to keep things in place.

Will bring back photos from my next work session at the trailer!
I see about the plugs, that makes sense that they wouldn't align now after raising the bench. If the wall portion was removed, I would wait till you had another piece to replace that tan coloured plastic trim. This is where I would use an extrusion and fasten that to the wall with a series of rivets or screws.

If the 2 legs on either side of the wood were a bit longer, you could just have a slip connection and not fasten the wood at all, it would just live in the extrusion and be allowed to move as the floor moves. Just a thought but it is making more sense now.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:14 PM   #14
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I see about the plugs, that makes sense that they wouldn't align now after raising the bench. If the wall portion was removed, I would wait till you had another piece to replace that tan coloured plastic trim. This is where I would use an extrusion and fasten that to the wall with a series of rivets or screws.
Thatís a good idea, seeing as I went back this AM to wrap up the repair and the plastic plug didnít hold to the wood. First time PL fails on me. I guess plastic is slippery. The moment I screwed the piece back into the wall, it popped out because the hole in the wall/rib is now misaligned with the bench.

However, Iíll likely hold off on more work in that area for now. Bench is now secured solidly with steel brackets near the wall, screws into the middle section and gun nails in the wood brackets in the shoe storage area. Wonít move. Seeing my dealer mid-August to have a combiner box added to the roof (to fish in WiFi Ranger cabling), theyíll look at it. Want further alterations to the wall to be on them. They also lready ordered some of the bench parts to replace if necessay, like the end piece and plastic plug.

See photos (note Iíll likely glue the plastic plug with epoxy just so it stays in place in our upcoming travels).

Again, thanks for your help.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:36 PM   #15
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That's great that you got it back together so you an use it. In most of the things I have worked on, I have gone slightly different than what the dealer probably would have done. When it comes to the cabinetry, they are just working with what they are given and directed to repair back to the factory settings. SO you get a "rinse and repeat" effect going on. Just keep your tools handy

If I end up making an extrusion, I will let you know and make extra if you want to go that route. In the meantime, I will keep an eye one my bench for popping.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:47 PM   #16
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That's great that you got it back together so you an use it. In most of the things I have worked on, I have gone slightly different than what the dealer probably would have done. When it comes to the cabinetry, they are just working with what they are given and directed to repair back to the factory settings. SO you get a "rinse and repeat" effect going on. Just keep your tools handy

If I end up making an extrusion, I will let you know and make extra if you want to go that route. In the meantime, I will keep an eye one my bench for popping.
Very fair point. My plan was to have them replace the damaged panel and fasteners but ask that they keep the brackets I’ve added or reinstall them myself. We’ll see. I may falter ahead of that and fix myself. I’m not a patient person!

Do let know if you go the extrusion route. I shall follow any work of yours on that front closely!
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:34 PM   #17
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I'd be making a warranty claim.
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Old 05-30-2021, 11:29 AM   #18
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Hey all. OP here.

Reviving my old thread from last summer. Recap: the third section of my 22FB dinette bench came loose. Fixed it myself temporarily by adding brackets to secure it to the floor. Left reattaching it to the wall to the dealer that got my trailer in at the end of the season. They replaced a piece of plywood that had been damaged as it came loose and rescrewed the bench to the wall. Asked them to keep my extra brackets in.

Happy I did because the screw into wall came out after a few trips but the bench stayed put thanks to the extra brackets. Hereís a photo of the screw. Looks like a wood screw to go into aluminum?! The dealer just used the same type of screw that came out in the first place.

What do folks recommend to have the screw stay in. I guess I could do without it since the brackets do a fine job of securing the bench but just in case, should I try just a larger screw or a self tapping one? I think itís coming out because the bench keeps pulling on it as the wall flexes during travel.

Any advice?
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:07 PM   #19
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Thatís a Ďsheet metal screwí not a real wood screw. You could try going one size bigger in diameter but not length.
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Old 06-01-2021, 06:11 AM   #20
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That’s a ‘sheet metal screw’ not a real wood screw. You could try going one size bigger in diameter but not length.
Ok. Thanks. Anything else I should do to secure the screw? A bit of Locktite perhaps? Anything else you’d suggest? The bigger diameter will certainly keep the screw in place initially but the vibrations I suspect will eventually make it come loose again.
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