Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-30-2010, 12:26 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
Roadrunner's Avatar
 
1978 29' Ambassador
1974 25' Tradewind
1974 27' Overlander
Indiana , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 675
Blog Entries: 7
Cabinet Frame Construction?

We are replacing the overhead cabinets as well as the bunks and galley cabinet in our "78" Ambassador. With the bouncing and pounding the trailer is subjected to...what is the preferred way of building the face frames for the cabinets? Mortise/tenon, lap joints, bisquit joints, pin with dowels, ect. I only want to do this once. Also, what is the preferred method of fixing cabinets to the interior walls. Thanks for your input!

Bob
TAC PA-5
Roadrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 12:54 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
wkerfoot's Avatar
 
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange , California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
We are replacing the overhead cabinets as well as the bunks and galley cabinet in our "78" Ambassador. With the bouncing and pounding the trailer is subjected to...what is the preferred way of building the face frames for the cabinets? Mortise/tenon, lap joints, bisquit joints, pin with dowels, ect. I only want to do this once. Also, what is the preferred method of fixing cabinets to the interior walls. Thanks for your input!

Bob
TAC PA-5

Bob,

I am using pocket holes and screws to hold the frame together and screwing a ledger to the wall to fasten the frame to the ledger, again with pocket holes and screws.

Such as: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=00929133000P

Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA

https://billbethsblog.blogspot.com/
wkerfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 05:56 AM   #3
3 Rivet Member
 
Arrowstream's Avatar
 
Columbia , South Carolina
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 173
Images: 4
It depends on your ability to make the joint. My original cabinet face frames were held together with dowels and they didn't shake loose. I used half lap joints on my overhead cabinets and I'm making a bath cabinet now out of foam/pvc material and pocket screws. My cabinets are attached with ss screws. It's still a work in progress, so I can't validate how well it'll hold up. From what I've read, loose cabinets have more to do with trailer suspension than cabinet attachment.
Arrowstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:08 AM   #4
Iwannagocamping
 
Dakota's Dad's Avatar
 
1979 31' Sovereign
Rineyville , Kentucky
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 262
Strongest non-tenon joint is going to be pocket hole and glue. Many people think the end/side grain joint won't hold glue and that all the bond is mechanical with the pocket screws.. untrue. Good pocket jigs/machines can be expensive, more so if this is the only project you need it for, but a good, but slow one, can be had. If I was only doing a couple face frames I would use one of these.. I use the mounted master kit, but there are a lot of pocket holes to be placed in a residential kitchen, so the speed of that mounted clamp system is nice.

Build the cabinet with no solid back, just as you found them to be originaly, use a strp of aluminum angle as a ledger.
__________________
See our blog here on how two RV/AS rookies tackle a 1979 Sovereign resto!!

Just the photos.. (sometimes you don't need the blog, just a picture worth a thousand words..)

1979 Sovereign International
2004 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer
2 Golden Retrievers

Air #36788
TAC#3179
WBCCI #1265
Dakota's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 07:43 AM   #5
Contributing Member
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Austin (Hays County) , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,135
Images: 4
Pocket holes for sure

I'm in the progress of converting from a crosswise queen to twin beds. In the past, I removed the couch and replaced it with recliners and cabinets. All with pocket screws and glue. I even skip the glue when I can put plenty of screws into solid oak.

I use pocket hole screws wherever possible, although I have two biscuit cutters and a dowling jig, as well. I seldom use the last two anymore unless there is no way to use the pocket screws.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2018 Interstate GT, "Sabre-Dog V"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 08:47 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Roadrunner's Avatar
 
1978 29' Ambassador
1974 25' Tradewind
1974 27' Overlander
Indiana , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 675
Blog Entries: 7
WOW...thanks for the suggestion to use pocket screws! Several weeks ago I stopped at the local Woodcrafters and picked up the Kreg Jig. This is one slick piece of woodworking equipment. I started the face frames for the overhead cabinets today. Using mahogany I was concerned about the wood splitting and not getting tight joints...all I can say is WOW. In the past I have used dowels or bisquit joints...this will certainly cut down on the time. A little glue, some screws, and a nice tight joint. My suggestion to anyone building cabinets, look for a Kreg Jig.

Bob
TAC PA-5
WBCCI 4871
Roadrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2010, 01:42 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,146
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Hi, on my remodel, I used the Kreg pocket screw kit. Since I was using mostly 1"X 2" Poplar and Oak , the two hole jig worked perfect for me. It's not too expensive and easy to use. I highly recommend it.
Attached Images
    
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 07:58 AM   #8
3 Rivet Member
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Springfield , South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 237
Many thanks to all who educated us on Kreg tools/screws. That has opened up a whole new world and I will now be able to make EVERYTHING stronger on the 76 Sovereign.

Using the concept of the heavy picture hangers in drywall with the angled (downward) nail insertion technique this could be duplicated with Kreg screws in the thin plywood that seems to abound everywhere that has/is coming loose.

About six years ago I got a cargo trailer in Ohio when I attended the sell off of the family home place there and cargo trailer rental prices were outrageous so I went and bought a 6x10 rear ramp trailer and with the number of trips I have pulled it to Ohio, the trailer has paid for itself.

They asked if I wanted E trac.

The trailer was lined with 1/4" plywood and they used washer head screws (very similar to Kreg) to hold the E trac on the walls and decking. I though it all would pull out once I started lashing things to wall with somewhat heavy weight and to my pleasant surprise not one screw (insofar as I can tell) has come loose and the e trac is as good as new.

Thusly when I saw the Kreg washer head screws and their application in hole pockets I recognized immediately that this is a real winner.

First project is going to be rebuilding the storage area under the galley which has collapsed. In looking at the materials used I am not surprised it has done so thusly I will be going back with 3/8" plywood lower floor and I will firm up the partition between galley storage and stove with 1/4" Will be supporting galley storage decking on the outboard side with 1X3 columns going down to main deck.

The rear panel will be on hinges that will allow me to unscrew two or three screws and fold it down so I can get to plumbing if need be.

I figure I can increase the storage area under the galley at least 40% that will hold heavy canned goods etc down closer to main deck level.

The Univolt didn't volt any more so I got a IOTA from Randy and I am going to relocate the power supply to the bulkhead between galley and twin bed room which gives me more room right behind the magazine rack.

Pulled out about half the wimpy Univolt mounting shelf as it has crashed and fell down on the PAR pump with POs. I hope to fabricate a long storage compartment for rifle and ammo attached to the outboard wall and underside of counter top. Will mount what will look like a 1X3 chair rail (maybe 2 of them parallel) directly to ribbing with 8X32 screws after drilling holes through paneling and tapping the rib. Then some pocket screws running downwards though the inside skin (like picture hanging nails) which should hold from now on.

Thanks again for the heads up on Kreg guys ! ! ! !
Hummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 07:58 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Roadrunner's Avatar
 
1978 29' Ambassador
1974 25' Tradewind
1974 27' Overlander
Indiana , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 675
Blog Entries: 7
Keep us posted on your progress. I wish I had more projects so that I could use the Kreg jig!

Bob
TAC PA-5
WBCCI 4871
Roadrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 10:14 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,008
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
Cabinets

I used the Kreg System and found it to be just what I was looking for, it is easy to use and makes building cabinet bases and face frames a snap. In my '74 Argosy, I removed and replaced all of the base cabinetry. But in the overhead storage cabinets, I checked to make sure they were firmly attached to the walls. The removed the doors and built new face frames that attached to the original extruded aluminum frames. I have posted a few pics on my blog as well as to a number of posts I have made. Good Luck with your project.
P.S. I'm one of those guys who believes that quality tools are worth the money and the Kreg system is worth every dime. OH! I don't sell them.
TG Twinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 05:17 AM   #11
3 Rivet Member
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Springfield , South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 237
When I was little I grew up calling a guy uncle and I was like eleven before they told me he wasn't really my uncle but he had a ton of tools and he left me his tools so with his, my Dad's and what I have bought so"tools be us". Uncle said there was an old saying, "a man is no better than his tools" which I have found to be quite true. It is amazing how much neat stuff has come on line in last ten years. Last pocket hole rig I saw was for drywall screws which didn't work real well as they wanted to split out easily but these Kregs are it.
I went to Lowes and got a Jr kit and a box of 1 1/2" screws yesterday and was planning on getting on it today but management informed me I gotta go make nice to in laws but I do get to eat while there haha.

Got a guy coming Friday to tint the window with Llumar 15? which will turn the windows silver on the outside and hopefully no will will be able to see in at all.

Next project (after galley rebuild) is to get Lexan sheet and fab a protective screen across front windows and rear window. Also have to redeck a 5X11 cargo trailer along with rewiring it. Also got a Jeep trailer. So many trailers, so little time haha.


It may not be paneling but I swear the shelving etc is made of appears to be just 1/8" paneling. As I jerk it out I am saving it as patterns for more useful wood weights.
Hummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 07:16 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,008
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
Screws

Forced Family Fun. Isn't it great? When it comes to the screws, there are different lengths as well as different thread types for specific woods. Fine thread for hard woods and coarse thread for plywoods. But you may already know that.
TG Twinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 05:03 AM   #13
3 Rivet Member
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Springfield , South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 237
Yes I got a box of 1 1/2" coarse thread as the stuff I am going to be working with is 3/4" yellow pine, white pine and Doug Fir. I will probably be using Titebond III, Devcon Clear 2 Ton Epoxy (slow set) and Marinetex as well.
I was disappointed as I wanted a 1000 of the screws but no one stocked them so packed. The hundred box should get me through the galley/rifle storage box just fine. Will be going to the lumber yard today and will see if they have the big box.

Under AS support activity I need to build a shed about sixty feet long and 12 feet wide and 12 feet high thusly I need to bring in 16 foot 6X6s or 16' 4" pipe. The 2500HD I got to pull the AS came with a very deep tool box which only allows about 3" of plywood to go up under cutting the useable bed length down to 5 feet or so. I hauled such in on F250 I had with no tool box and 16' is a bit touchy so it is time to Plan B.

Getting two more sheets of treated exterior 3/4" to deck out my 5X11'4" flat bed cargo trailer.

I replaced the double (mobile home) axles with a single 8000 lb torsion bar axle with 10" electric brakes about 12 years back. It has 8 lug 2 piece rims with 10 ply tires. It tows dead straight and is very easily backed.

Also will stop by scrap steel place for some heavy wall square tubing. Saw an idea where a guy put heavy tubing down the middle of such a trailer welded underside and he had another piece of heavy wall square that slid down in. At the outer end there was a piece about four feet wide welded as a "T". He could pull it out and pin in place another four feet to support long sheets of roof tin. Then when finished he just pulled pins and pushed it back in and it was there until needed the next time.

The trick with two such welded as a "U" will be to make sure the welded on pieces are parallel so when the shelf is pulled out nothing binds which is probably why he used only one. Guess I could fab a end piece with female caps that could be pinned in place over the pull outs for the bottom of the U and have conspicuity tape across the back and of course flagged. Thinking more on it that is the way to go because if I backed into something etc the whole thing would be warped. With a removable back section the sides would not be wedged in requiring cutting to get it off.
Hummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 07:42 AM   #14
Contributing Member
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Austin (Hays County) , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,135
Images: 4
You do not need to buy anywhere near1000 screws. A screw every 4" or 5" is more than enough when used with glue. I lean toward each 6". I have built cabinets for both ends of my trailer and have not exhausted a box of 100. I bought 100 of each length and pitch that I figured I would ever need and I have not gone through 100 of any size yet and that includes building some hazards for a miniature golf course.

If you have a pin nailer, try tacking the pieces in alignment before inserting the screws wherever possible. That guarantees no slippage when inserting the screws.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2018 Interstate GT, "Sabre-Dog V"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 08:54 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,008
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
Clamp it.

You should clamp the joint when drilling and assembling. This prevents offset joints. Try it with and without clamp on some scrap wood. Kreg recommends clamping.
TG Twinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 07:14 AM   #16
3 Rivet Member
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Springfield , South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 237
Yep I have a small brad nailer, and a big Bostitch finish nailer and for those forever jobs I have a big Bostitch stapler that drives 2" x 1/2" crown staples with glue on them. Same thing they make pallets with. I discovered the other day a Stanley Frame clamp normally used to cut mitered corners can be adjusted to hold up to 3" wide pieces for a T joint. This would come in handy to hold the skeleton frame early on. I have two of these I have picked up in flea markets last 20 years.
I was surfing around last night and I found a Kreg clamp outfit for holding shelving while it is screwed. It has a long finger that goes in one hole and a bracket on opposite end. I probably wouldn't make shelving with it as I have Dado blade kits for the table and radial arm saw and they do a good job of removing slight warps in pine boards. Glue them in and clamp followed by a back panel I glue and brad nail on. Been lucky so far, never had one fail or get loose. Then again they have never taken a trip in AS haha.

I agree there is no way I will use over a 100 box of these on the AS projects even though next is going after the closet shelves that went to crap years ago. Apparently the paneling AS used to make them has a tendancy to shrink as neither shelf is in the groove at the front.

I am going to use two pieces of 1" light duty angle about four inches long clamped with a vice grip floating pad to hold the 2X4 in place as I end screw it into the 2X2 ledger already there. I will use four pocket holes. One on each narrow wide and two in top and run the sides in first to locate the 2X4. It will also be glued up.

I started on it yesterday and first I had to remove what was there and found the left panel was never rivited in place and had allowed everything to sag. The Univolt frame failure did not help so the shelving was out and I first cut a column from 2X4 and pocket screwed on end to the main neck and the left panel is now sitting on it which I knew would not last so I put three furring strips vertically down it with a 1/4" piece of plywood over that and screwed/glued it all together for a very substantial assembly. Did same on other end. I am extending the under gally shelf all the way to the back wall. It will be in two pieces and these will either just lay there or I might put in one screw to locate them. I don't dare put this in permanent as I need to be able to get to the plumbing.

The new power supply(Univolt no longer volts) is going to be relocated to the under galley on the wall going into twin bed room mounted so I can get to the two fuses easily.

As indicated the closets follow. The supplied shelving will be used as a rough pattern and I will cut next shelf adding 3/4" on all sides for a try and see to arrive at final dimension and will get rid of the track which no longer works anyway. I have already done similar replacing the drawer runners under the counter opposite the sink. I used 1" light angle for drawer glides. Works well except I need to change out the screws on one side and counter sink them and use flat heads and run them through and put 8X32 nut on other side cut flush and Loctite applied to keep them from vibrating loose down the road.
Hummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 10:15 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
blickcd's Avatar
 
1979 31' Sovereign
Milford , Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 553
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 36
I recently rebuilt my living room credenza and used half lap joints, glued and nailed. Attached to the floor and top with aluminum angle stock cut to length and drilled every four inches or so. See my blog for way too much information

So far only one road test since completed and that was just a short trip, so I really can't say how well this will hold up. I have replaced my axles though, which were previously beating up all cabinetry.

Christopher
Attached Images
 
blickcd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Squarestream construction acwdgw All Squarestream Trailers 55 10-28-2019 07:52 AM
Is floor frame construction method same for both Silver Streak and Avion? Tony S Vintage Kin 30 11-26-2013 10:09 PM
The construction under the toilet Senshi Sinks, Showers & Toilets 0 11-20-2008 09:23 PM
Construction of a Rally WallaWalla On The Road... 9 07-22-2008 04:58 AM
Use of Construction Adhesive - Any Thoughts? Gael79 Cabinets, Counter Tops & Furnishings 4 05-19-2008 04:19 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.