Where does the power originate?

[wbrisett]

Well we were going to go camping this week, but unless I can fix my power, I’m not sure about that.

Turned on the fridge and everything else last night. We haven’t used our 2018 27FB in a few months because I’ve been out of country. I had issues getting the power to come on, finally did. But noticed the 15 Amp GFI wouldn’t flip back on. Played with it more and decided maybe a new breaker was in order. Picked one up this morning at Lowes, and still no power.

Checked the inverter and it powers on, but only to the red LED, but has no error code. Checked the reset (actually took it off the wall to make sure), and it wasn’t tripped. Checking the AC outlet that powers the inverter, I see it has no power!

Ok, so now it’s time to track down the wire wire. Where is that coming from? The schematics show it goes to Inset A, but I don’t seem to see that either n the manual. Where is this originating from?

[fran&frank]

So you are plugged in to shore power and are you sure there is power at your shore power outlet? Have you checked your circuit breakers in the trailer?

[Thiss]

How are your batteries?

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by wbrisett

Well we were going to go camping this week, but unless I can fix my power, I’m not sure about that.

Turned on the fridge and everything else last night. We haven’t used our 2018 27FB in a few months because I’ve been out of country. I had issues getting the power to come on, finally did. But noticed the 15 Amp GFI wouldn’t flip back on. Played with it more and decided maybe a new breaker was in order. Picked one up this morning at Lowes, and still no power.

Checked the inverter and it powers on, but only to the red LED, but has no error code. Checked the reset (actually took it off the wall to make sure), and it wasn’t tripped. Checking the AC outlet that powers the inverter, I see it has no power!

Ok, so now it’s time to track down the wire wire. Where is that coming from? The schematics show it goes to Inset A, but I don’t seem to see that either n the manual. Where is this originating from?

wbrisett, the inverter power can be confusing. It’s actually powered by DC, output is AC. The AC you’re describing is the pass-through circuit which feeds the “Inverter” receptacles when connected to Shore Power.

You didn’t specify if you’ve got 30 or 50A service in your Airstream.

I checked the Owner’s Manual on our 27’ Globetrotter and found the 30A model uses Circuit 4 (Breaker) for the pass-through.

If you have a 50A model, you’ll find it on Circuit 7. Check that breaker on yours to see if the Pass-through circuit is feeding power to the inverter while connected to shore power.

Back to your problem, are you saying when you’re connected to shore power and the “Store-Use” switch by the door is turned on (light turns red), you’re not getting power inside the trailer to (some) devices?

[wbrisett]

So a bit of an update. Plugged into 50 amp shore power and all is well. I keep the batteries on a trickle charger, but now I’m wondering about the health of those. When I get back I’ll check those out. Sadly this is the first time I’ve taken the Airstream out since Feb! So a bad battery wouldn’t surprise me.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by wbrisett

So a bit of an update. Plugged into 50 amp shore power and all is well. I keep the batteries on a trickle charger, but now I’m wondering about the health of those. When I get back I’ll check those out. Sadly this is the first time I’ve taken the Airstream out since Feb! So a bad battery wouldn’t surprise me.

Assuming you were not plugged in before, all is normal except your batteries are probably toast. The USE/STORE switch does not disconnect everything. If your trickle charger does not put out enough current to make up the self-discharge and cover those items that are still powered up your batteries were depleted and then sat discharged with a load on them. If you need to leave the trailer more than a few days without power, you need to disconnect the batteries or install a cutoff switch that completely disconnects them.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, a few things to go shopping for:

1) A very normal plug in outlet tester. This is a $10-ish item just about anywhere and less than that on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Bende...095746&sr=8-14

Plug it in to a kitchen outlet or some other one you can easily see. If it's lit up, you have shore power. If this or that outlet seems to be an issue, plug it in there and let it do it's job. Quick / simple and reasonably safe.

2) A multimeter. Again cheaper on Amazon. Likely less than $30 bought locally:

https://www.amazon.com/AstroAI-Digit...41-spons&psc=1

Like the one outlet tester, that's just a random item that came up early on a search. I have never used / seen either one. The multimeter gets used to check your batteries ( by measuring at the posts). It also gets used to check wiring by tracing voltage as it moves along the circuit.

Yes, you can spend more on both items:

https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Multime...s%2C395&sr=1-4

Is a much fancier outlet tester and a more capable meter. Yes, you *do* pay a bit more.

Like the others posting, I suspect that your batteries are in trouble. Without a voltage measurement, there is no way to know if that guess is correct. A full battery disconnect is the best way to go in storage. Trickle chargers die / get unplugged / come unclipped. They also do no better for the batteries than simply disconnecting them.

3) A battery disconnect switch is a good thing to install. Amazon will sell you one today for < $30:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...-1-spons&psc=1

You can also get them locally. I'd stick with the Blue Sea versions. They are cheap enough that there is no big reason to go cheaper. There are YouTube videos going into all the details of how to install them. On an AS you deal with both the inverter and main power cables. That makes it slightly more exciting than what's shown on some videos.

That's the list of "probably should get / cheap" stuff to put on the budget.

An EMS would be a good idea as well. I'd go with an internal one that has a nice display. Then you just look at that and it tells you far more than you ever wanted to know about power coming into your trailer.

The main function of an EMS is to (as it's primary function) protect you from a range of faults that can kill the stuff in your trailer pretty fast. By far the most common one on a 50A hookup is an open neutral. This takes out your converter / charger almost instantly. Faulty post wiring / bad cables / operator error all can create an open neutral.

If you don't go with an EMS, be really fanatic about how you hook up. Power goes off at the post before you plug in. It goes on at the post after everything is hooked up. When disconnecting, power goes off at the post before anything is unplugged. Pull up to a campground with no breaker at the post and ..... hmmm .... ( yes they do exist ). Head in and use the 50A breaker on the panel in your trailer. Yes that's a royal pain.

Fun !!


Bob

[wbrisett]

Thanks Bob. Actually I have all that gear and do have a cut-off already installed.

This issue has gotten even stranger. So while connected to shore power all the GFI outlets work. Discovered by happen accident while putting the Airstream away (we have no power available at our storage facility). That our daughter had left a DVD in the player, so she turned on the inverter. Despite having no tripped breakers, and later confirming I still have no power at most of the GFI outlets, we do have power for the inverter circuits that power the TVs and DVD player.

I'm going to grab the wiring diagram again today when I go pick up stuff, but this new info really puzzles me. I thought all of those circuits were on the same line. Obviously not.

[wbrisett]

Seems I can't edit my last post. Oh well.

One other tidbit. Both batteries are reading fully charged at 13.1v.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by wbrisett

Seems I can't edit my last post. Oh well.

One other tidbit. Both batteries are reading fully charged at 13.1v.

FYI, you cannot tell state of charge while the converter is powered on. Voltage is only good as an indicator of state of charge when the batteries have rested (neither being charge or discharged) for a time I don't recall but probably at least 30 minutes. When the converter is powered on you are reading only the voltage output of the converter.

[wbrisett]

Sorry I should have mentioned, I measured directly off the batteries and not through anything else. Like I said this one is a head scratcher because the batteries seem to be in great shape ( replaced them in Feb).

Looking at the wiring diagram in my manual I see now that circuit 7 is the Blu-Ray player and TVs.

Circuit 3 is the other outlets and despite me always thinking those came on with the inverter, maybe they never had and I’m simply mis-remembering when those particular outlets were hot. I thought they too were hot when I turned on the inverter. ??? Do the bathroom or kitchen outlets come active when the inverter is turned on?

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by wbrisett

Sorry I should have mentioned, I measured directly off the batteries and not through anything else. Like I said this one is a head scratcher because the batteries seem to be in great shape ( replaced them in Feb).
...

Sorry if I didn't understand your response, but my question was not where you measured the batteries, but how. Were they connected to the converter and was it powered on? If not connected to the trailer or trickle charger, had they been disconnected for a while? The only way battery voltage tells you anything about state of charge is if they have been isolated from any charging or discharging for a while.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Yup !!!

The converter puts voltage (and current ) into the batteries. As long as it ( or the solar charger ) is running, the voltage you see is nonsense. It has nothing to do with the charge state of the battery at all. That's true if you measure it at the charger. It's true if you measure it at the battery posts.

The *only* way to work out charge from voltage is to have *nothing* charging or discharging the battery. You let it run that way for at least an hour. You then measure at the posts. Next you head to a table for the exact battery you have. Assuming the battery is in perfect shape, you can *guess* at the charge state. You might be off by 20%, but you at least have a number.

Yes this is nuts.

It also is why folks buy shunt based monitors. They are pretty much the only way to know what the battery state is. They are far from perfect, but they are orders of magnitude better than that. voltage based device. They need to be set up properly ... sorry about that.

How do we know that the charger was still on? Assuming it's not freezing out, the battery resting voltage can't be much above 12.8V. It's not very cold here in Alaska. That sort of rules out it being very cold in the rest of the US

Bob

[wbrisett]

See this is what happens when you don't take your Airstream out for five months, you forget how stuff is supposed to work. Turns out I've been chasing a phantom problem.

I think in my rush to get things setup I forgot that regardless of things, the GFCI circuit never gets power except with shore power. Which is something I don't have a the facility I have to store my Airstream at. It's only the outlet under the table that comes on with the inverter.

To make matters more confusing when I flipped the 15 amp GFI breaker the Siemens doesn't have power to reset itself. The GE breaker that I ultimately didn't need, but replaced it with anyhow, will flip to the ON position. Of course it still had no power. Which was why I started chasing things.

Bottom line, take the Airstream out more and stop letting other things get in the way.

To be fair, I took a full month off from work in June, but took out my motorcycle for 8,000 miles of dirt and road in the US and eastern Canada, so it was really hard to take out both the Airstream and the motorcycle.

Thanks Bob, and others who helped me figure out it was the nut behind the multimeter and not the Airstream itself.