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Old 07-21-2005, 09:37 AM   #1
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Where are the wires?

hi- in a '72 international, which ceiling panels need to be pulled off to repair the wiring connection to the front interior light, front reading lights, and over-door light? All other lights work. So does the fan, which is in the front interior light. Also, I have no key for water intake port- seems to be different from other hatches. Any ideas? Also, can the windows be easily removed to facilitate the replacement of weatherstripping? Just got rid of the hornets nests yesterday, makes working on it a little easier... thanks- tim
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:44 AM   #2
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Sounds like you might have a fuse problem,
If you haven't checked fused check that first.

Steve
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Old 07-21-2005, 12:23 PM   #3
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Rivet Key assistance ...

tphan,

You can look through this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=16754

... for you water fill access door key.

You will have to do a search (top of page) for the window gaskets/weatherstripping or fuse threads.
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Old 07-28-2005, 10:18 PM   #4
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not the fuse

hi- loooks like the fuses by the univolt are all good. Does anyone know behind which ceiling panel I might find my faulty wiring? thanks!
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Old 07-29-2005, 05:52 AM   #5
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The main wiring loom runs down the left side (facing the rear of the trailer) of the center of the ceiling. The center sheet is designed/installed to be removable. You would need to pull all lights and vent screens, the interior shroud form the AC and the TV antenna handle. Drill out the rivets in the center of the sheet, and bow the front edge down, reversing the bow that it has now. you will be able to work it out of the edge slots and access the wire.
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Old 07-29-2005, 07:28 AM   #6
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Okay, I've Got to Get In on this One

I have similar issues with my '73 Sovereign and am looking for a solution without ripping out panels.

The following do not work:

Galley light
Over door light
Scare light

The front vent fan is disconnected (but didn't have power as far as I could tell) but the overhead light does.

The kitchen vent fan was frozen so I disconnected it, and it does have power.

There are 3 switches on the wall, two next to the door (over door and ??) and one forward of the window (scarelight).

I have not checked any of those switches for power yet. (I've been focusing on plumbing, bedroom, bathroom reassembly)

I'm just wondering if one of these items (front vent fan, kitchen fan) is interrupting the circuit but not having a wiring diagram, I'm not sure how the circuit goes.

Any input?
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Old 07-29-2005, 09:44 AM   #7
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Grounds?

There sure seem to be a lot of ground issues on the forum. IIRC, the DC ground for those lights in my '73 are the white wires going to the light. All of the lights in mine have "quick disconnect" connectors on them.

A quick test would be to disconnect the positive and negative leads and attach a mulit-meter to read the voltage. If no voltage, then test the ground wire by attaching the meter to the white wire and the other side of the meter to the aluminum frame/skin of the TT. If no reading there, then that section of the ground wire is bad in some way.

I had this problem in my rear ceiling light. Turned out to be the "quick disconnect" on the ground wire was frayed and needed to be replaced.

Good luck with it.

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Old 07-29-2005, 11:44 AM   #8
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Thanks Neighbor

Jim,

I guess I better learn how to use my multimeter. I'm on my way out right now.
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Old 07-29-2005, 02:52 PM   #9
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Okay, do I feel stupid.

I removed the switches and found the porchlight switch working fine (the light fixture is corroded, power is okay). The switch next to it is a three-way that goes to the galley light. I took it apart, cleaned it, and epoxied the contacts to the plastic body and it should work now. I haven't removed the light switch to the scare light, but I'll bet that'll answer my questions.

Guess I'll look around a bit more before I ask questions.

Thanks for your help, Jim.
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:19 PM   #10
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More stuff

Hey Ron, et al,

I felt a bit like Ensign Duncel posting that last one, but I had to throw it out there. I just spent some time tracing the wiring that we are all referencing here. Here’s what I found out.

The lights over the couch/Goucho, the Scare light, the porch light, the exhaust fan, the ceiling lights in the front of the TT and the “cigarette lighter” over the credenza all feed from a bundle of wires just curbside of the exhaust fan in the main wiring bundle in the ceiling underneath the center panel. In my ‘73, the positive leads are brown, negative is white. If any one of these devices are not working properly, it is possible that a wire has worked its way loose from the “bundle” (other options exist, as Ron has discovered, so keep reading). This “bundle” inputs six wires on one side and three on the other. I haven’t cut the electrical tape to inspect this bundle, as all of mine are working. Logically, these wires are twisted together in a massive “connection” inside the bundle. Ergo, if one device isn’t working, it’s worked itself loose from the bundle and needs to be reattached.

The three switches to the right of the door as you enter are wired thus:

1) The switch for the “scare” light has only a positive feed to the switch. Ground is obtained thru the body/shell of the trailer.

2) The porch light has both positive and negative leads (go figure!)

3) The third switch is more complicated. It turns on various interior lights (of which I’ve not discovered all). One of those lights is indeed the light over the sink. It appears to turn on others in the bedroom area of the trailer, I just haven’t had time to trace them all out, yet.

I hope this helps. I’ll be attaching this to my main thread
here for future reference. Let me know if I need to trace other stuff.

Take care, Jim

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Old 07-29-2005, 08:11 PM   #11
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wiring path, and water door key

hi jim and susan,ron, and newkid- and thanks for the concise replies! VERY helpful to me to know which panel to take down, will in fact do just that. I have to also caulk the shroud for the porch light before I do this, as it leaks like a sieve, with much corrosion in there. Jim and susan, the places you mention are the exact ones that are dead in my coach- Is this kind of a separate loop in the wiring system? Anyway, thanks! I also finally found a DECO 1 key, but it did NOT work in my '72 water fill door- so my search for that continues. If anyone has a '72 OL with that key, please let me know and maybe I can copy yours. happy streaming- tim
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:44 PM   #12
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Tim-

The water door lock on our '72 has a key with the "THE ILLINOIS LOCK CO. U.S.A." on it. It has matching cuts on two sides, about 3/4" long and has a long bar going straight down the middle. I see you're from Estes Park. We're going to be in Garden of the Gods for the VAC Rally in a week or so. Let me know and I can bring along our key. I'm sure if you have it copied there's a good chance it will work for you. These keys were pretty interchangeable.

Also, if you reach in under the galley and undo the hose clamp holding the water tank inlet pipe to the water fill you can fill your tank up and see if it works!

Good luck!
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:59 PM   #13
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tphan, a couple of things. On my '73, there is only one screw holding on the porch light. Make sure it works first, then "caulk" using Vulkem or ParrBond on the screw only. The shroud removes easily so that you can clean the corrosion. Just so you know, my door leaks in the same area. But after removing the inner skins, I can see that it is the door seal as well as the porch light leaking.

IF, only IF, ALL of the areas I mentioned in that bundle are not working, it's probably the main feed from the Univolt (IF you are still using a Univolt or similar inverter that is providing the feed for these lights). In other words, it could be a blown fuse at the inverter; it may not be a bad wire.
I've got to go to bed. Post more if you need more information.
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Old 07-30-2005, 07:17 PM   #14
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hi and thanks! dpeakmd, I left you a private message. jim and susan, I'll go rattle around all the fuses to make sure that isn't the problem, but I can see that they aren't blown. Would be nice if it were that easy. regards the porch light, I thought I'd caulk all the way around it once I get it working, to prevent rain from just running through the whole thing. But this may not be possible as the 3 screws are VERY rusty and stuck. Could drill them out I guess. Do you know too if it's easy to put in a new circuit and switch to be able to turn on all the clearance lights , not hooked up to the tow vehicle? Just thought it might be neat to be able to do that at night, like when someone is trying to find us in a big campground. thanks- tim
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Old 07-30-2005, 07:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphan
Do you know too if it's easy to put in a new circuit and switch to be able to turn on all the clearance lights , not hooked up to the tow vehicle? Just thought it might be neat to be able to do that at night, like when someone is trying to find us in a big campground. thanks- tim
This is what I did to turn on my clearance lights:
1. Buy an extra tow vehicle 7-way connector.
2. Find the wiring diagram for your trailer. Some of them are wired differently than the normal plug. Mine no longer is.
3. Remove the cover from your new 7-way connector
4. Cut a small length, (2-3 inches), of 12 or 14 gauge multi-strand wire.
5. Strip both ends of the wire.
6. Locate the post on your plug that has the 12VDC coming from the battery.
7. Screw one end of the wire into that post.
8. Locate the post on your plug that has your running lights coming from the trailer.
9. Screw the other end of the wire into that post.
10. Put your cover back on the 7-way connector.
11. Cover the open end of the 7-way connector with good old duct tape.
12. Plug it into your trailer's 7-way connector.
13. Unplug it when you want to turn them out.
14. Crack a beer and look REALLY cool!

This is what I did. I have seen some where they have wired in a switch to turn them on and off. Works good and it is CHEAP!
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Old 07-31-2005, 04:56 PM   #16
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it was the fuse after all!!!!

hi all and thanks for all the help, especially the insistence that my dead fixture problem might just be a fuse- it was! I looked at them right from the get-go, but only LOOKED- and none were burnt through in the middle as is typical, so I thought it must be a break in the wiring somewhere. At jim and susan's second attempt at getting me to do a more thorough check, I took all 4 fuses for the interior circuits out, noticed that one of the holders was a bit loose so squeezed it in a little, steel-wooled the fuse ends, and put them back in, turning them back and forth as I did to scrape off any corrosion on the holders. And LO- ALL the front fixtures now worked!!!I was so excited I at first didn't notice that now the lights in the bed/wardrobe area didn't work. Anyway, found that one of the fuses was bad even though it looked OK- A GOOD LESSON! Thankyou from saving me ripping out the ceiling panel, though appreciate the advice on how to do that! And pattersontoo- thankyou, may just try that method-sounds easy enough. You guys are great- Hope I can help you one day. -tim with lights
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Old 08-01-2005, 07:55 AM   #17
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my bad

hi- funny how you can go from great to bad in about 2 seconds- I jumped the terminals on my umbilical to get the running lights on (sort of a short cut to pattersontoo's idea), which worked fine untill I persisted in jumping around to other sockets to try and find out if my back-up lights worked, and shorted the whole thing out. Dang!!I hate it when I'm so dumb. I heard a little click up front by the umbilical plug-in, and also found a blown 50-amp fuse next to the univolt, the battery negative side I believe. I stuck another fuse in (untested, found it in trailer) but still no interior lights, no nothing. I came in the house before ruining anything else- and tried to sleep on it. I will go out this morning and start testing from the battery outward- how do I know if there is something now wrong with that re-setting circuit-breaker thing that apparently lives up under the belly-pan at the front of the trailer? Argghhhhhhhh! Electricity is definitely not my thing, Are there any other hidden fuses or breakers I need to find??? thanks- tim
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:06 AM   #18
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There are 2 or more fuses. There is a positive and a negative 50 AMP fuse. there may be 2 positive 50 AMP fuses depending on the trailer.
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:44 AM   #19
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fixed!!

whew- after only an hour, I solved the problem and we're back to normal. Just incase this happens to anyone else, here's what it was: The 50-amp fuse blew, protecting the circuit and battery from ME (thank goodness). After replacing the fuse to no avail and starting to panic, I removed the battery this morning and tested it. I then tested every fuse I could find, all good. I replaced battery, and just using a test light worked my way down the battery cables. I had power up to the newly replaced negative fuse, but not on down the black cable to it's terminus inside the univolt-? I took that short piece of cable off, tested it separately for continuity- seemed to work fine, though all green at one end, as was that end of the old, blown fuse. So cleaned up the cable ends, the greenish terminus, put it back in, and now at least had power to the univolt. Went inside with my fingers crossed, and flicked a light switch- AND THERE WAS LIGHT! AND IT WAS GOOD!!!!!!So, somehow in the shorting out process that cable decided to stop letting electricity flow through it, untill it knew I was about to lose it.
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Old 08-15-2005, 03:07 PM   #20
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"There is a positive and a negative 50 AMP fuse"
Can someone tell me where the negative 50 amp fuse is located and what the nomenclature of it is? thanks
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