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Old 10-06-2021, 08:02 PM   #1
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Victron DC to DC problems need help

I have an Isolated Victron Orion-TR Smart DC-DC Charger installed in an 2022 Airstream Flying Cloud 23CB. The tow vehicle is a 2021 Jeep Gladiator Ecodiesel.


I first wired it as the direction stated, Black 7-pin wire to positive input, white 7-pin (ground) to negative input. Then Black positive output to positive busbar in same spot the direct wire was before. And the white negative output was wired to the negative budbar.


In the above configuration none of the outside lights including turn signals and brake lights worked, seems the white 7-pin wire needed to be grounded to have the exterior (7-pin lights) work.


So i rewired it once again returning the 7-pin white directly to the busbar. And wired both input and output negatives to the same busbar. In thid configuration the lights work.


However in both configurations as soon as the charger kicks in the voltage of my alternator drops to 9 volts and the charge shuts off, shows error of engine shut down detection.



I tuned engine shut down detection feature off. And then the low voltage shut off happens when it drops to 9 volts.


In the gladiator at idle it puts out 12.5 to 12.9 volts, when i put it in drive it goes up to 13.2 to 13.9 volts, still idling in the driveway. But either in park or in drive as soon as the Victron Charger kick in the voltage drops to 9 volts. As soon as the charger shuts off due to engine shutdown or low voltage the Gladiator voltage climbs back up to 12.5 volts in park and 13.2 in drive.


A couple of minutes later when the charger kick back on the same process starts again.


Any ideas? Is my alternator bad? Wired charger wrong? Is the Victron Charger bad? Do i need a non isolated charger?


Charger set to lithium, tried manual settings same result.


I am at a loss.



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Old 10-06-2021, 08:20 PM   #2
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Hi

First off, the 7 pin charge wire and the DC/DC converter have nothing at all to do with the lights *other* than being on the same connector. If they stopped working, you moved the wrong wire.

To install the DC/DC you do not do anything at all with the ground wire from the 7 pin. It stays exactly where it always has been. There is no need or value in moving it. If you do move it, you likely will mess things up.

The input and output grounds (negatives) on the DC/DC both go to the negative bus bar on the trailer. There is no need for an "isolated" converter. Diagrams showing an isolated converter will only get you confused in this case.

The input to the DC/DC goes to the charge wire on on the 7 pin.

The output from the DC/DC goes to the master DC bus on the trailer.

There are a wide range of Victron DC/DC converters. They put out all sorts of output currents. The charge wire from your TV can only provide a limited amount of current. You want one with a rating of 10A or less .... Since you don't mention which one you got it's a bit difficult to guess what may be happening.

Bob
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Old 10-06-2021, 08:28 PM   #3
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How many amps is the DC-DC charger?
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Old 10-06-2021, 08:49 PM   #4
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I understand the 7-pin black positive has nothing to do with lights. However in the factory wiring instructions it had your connect the positive, and then the negative.


i assumed the negative was the white wire, so i took the white (7-pin)wire off the busbar and connected it to the negative inout on DCtoDC charger, then as instructed went negative output to the busbar.


Lights did not work so apparantly the Victron does not pass through the negative ground when not active.


it is the 12 12 30amp model
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Old 10-07-2021, 07:12 AM   #5
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What is the rated output of the alternator on the Jeep? It may not have enough extra power to run a 30 amp DC-DC at engine idle. If you put a switch on the wire that turns it off/on, you could use it just at highway rpms and (maybe) be OK.
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Old 10-07-2021, 09:00 AM   #6
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What is the rated output of the alternator on the Jeep? It may not have enough extra power to run a 30 amp DC-DC at engine idle. If you put a switch on the wire that turns it off/on, you could use it just at highway rpms and (maybe) be OK.
That's why I asked. Also 30 amps is pushing the stock wiring quite a bit especially if that is 30 amp output (which I think is how they are rated). 30 amp out at 14.4 volts requires over 33 amps at 13 volts with 100% efficiency. Most vehicles are wired and fused for 30 amps or less.
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Old 10-07-2021, 09:21 AM   #7
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So, in short,

Tie the 2 white wires to ground bus bar, it effectively makes it "not isolated" but still controls charging.

Program the Orion to be a battery charger. Not just a power supply.

Set the "charge delay" to zero seconds. I have found in all the cases I have installed, it keeps the "smart alternator" charging. The default 120s delay allows the smarts in the truck to shut off the charge line.

You can also program a max charging output, figuring what you can limit it to, to keep your TV happy will be necessary, if the gladiator can only do 15 amps, you need to limit output to around 15 amps, even though the charger is capable of drawing more.
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackerman View Post
So, in short,

Tie the 2 white wires to ground bus bar, it effectively makes it "not isolated" but still controls charging.

Program the Orion to be a battery charger. Not just a power supply.

Set the "charge delay" to zero seconds. I have found in all the cases I have installed, it keeps the "smart alternator" charging. The default 120s delay allows the smarts in the truck to shut off the charge line.

You can also program a max charging output, figuring what you can limit it to, to keep your TV happy will be necessary, if the gladiator can only do 15 amps, you need to limit output to around 15 amps, even though the charger is capable of drawing more.
Good advice on the charge delay setting, Iíll change mine for sure. I always thought such a smart device should be about to limit the charge current but Iíve been unable to find such a setting on mine.
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wazbro View Post
That's why I asked. Also 30 amps is pushing the stock wiring quite a bit especially if that is 30 amp output (which I think is how they are rated). 30 amp out at 14.4 volts requires over 33 amps at 13 volts with 100% efficiency. Most vehicles are wired and fused for 30 amps or less.
That's why I installed the 18 amp model.
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:48 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tadfar View Post
......


Lights did not work so apparantly the Victron does not pass through the negative ground when not active.


it is the 12 12 30amp model
Hi

The Victron products get used in a number of ways. One is as a fully isolated converter. Nothing is passed directly from the input side to the output side. All wires are isolated. This is *not* what you want / need / use in the application. A non-isolated device is fine. If you have an isolating version, you install it to defeat the isolation ( = you hook all the negatives / grounds together ...).

30A going out at 14V into the batteries means way more than that coming in at 10V over the charge wire. At the very least you have 42A, with a 100% efficient device. Since it's maybe 90% at full load you are close to 50A.

The charge wire is really set up to deliver 20A (max) to the trailer. It might be fused at 30A but getting that sort of current to the trailer over that wire and that connector ... nope .. not going to happen. Engine on the TV goes to idle .. nope ..

Even the 18A version of the DC/DC gizmos can be a bit much for this or that TV to power up. Stick with something down around 10A if you want to use the normal wiring. It will give you plenty of current to the trailer.

All of these devices have heat / power limits as well as current limits. Eventually those will catch up with you as well. Just how long it takes for the unit to heat up and cut back is very much a "that depends" sort of thing. It's going to be a lot longer than the time to blow a fuse or fry a wire.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2021, 11:04 AM   #11
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Hi

The Victron products get used in a number of ways. One is as a fully isolated converter. Nothing is passed directly from the input side to the output side. All wires are isolated. This is *not* what you want / need / use in the application. A non-isolated device is fine. If you have an isolating version, you install it to defeat the isolation ( = you hook all the negatives / grounds together ...).

30A going out at 14V into the batteries means way more than that coming in at 10V over the charge wire. At the very least you have 42A, with a 100% efficient device. Since it's maybe 90% at full load you are close to 50A.

The charge wire is really set up to deliver 20A (max) to the trailer. It might be fused at 30A but getting that sort of current to the trailer over that wire and that connector ... nope .. not going to happen. Engine on the TV goes to idle .. nope ..

Even the 18A version of the DC/DC gizmos can be a bit much for this or that TV to power up. Stick with something down around 10A if you want to use the normal wiring. It will give you plenty of current to the trailer.

All of these devices have heat / power limits as well as current limits. Eventually those will catch up with you as well. Just how long it takes for the unit to heat up and cut back is very much a "that depends" sort of thing. It's going to be a lot longer than the time to blow a fuse or fry a wire.

Bob
The 18a works very well on the gm trucks. Watched it this morning, after a night at harvest host. Batts were down about 25ah, and at startup, the Orion was delivering 18 amps bulk at idle.
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Old 10-07-2021, 06:56 PM   #12
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Thanks for all of the responses, it is helping
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Old 10-07-2021, 08:04 PM   #13
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check 7-way wiring diagram

be careful about going purely by wire colors, I have seen some cases where there is some variation. There are a number of diagrams showing the function for each wire (pin) on the 7-way connector, I suggest you go by that over wire color. Here is one example, there are many others if you search a little
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Old 10-08-2021, 06:27 AM   #14
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I personally would not use the 7 way for your DC 2 DC charger. Did you pull the fuse that powers the 12v wire in the 7 way before hooking to your DC charger? Back powering the alternator? We installed a Renogy DC2DC 20amp ran 4gauge cable from battery to an Anderson connector into the trailer to our 20amp Charger and 4 gauge cable from charger to the pos and neg buss bars going.to the lithium battery. The 7 way wiring probably will not carry the amp load of the charger.
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Old 10-08-2021, 12:01 PM   #15
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I personally would not use the 7 way for your DC 2 DC charger. Did you pull the fuse that powers the 12v wire in the 7 way before hooking to your DC charger? Back powering the alternator? We installed a Renogy DC2DC 20amp ran 4gauge cable from battery to an Anderson connector into the trailer to our 20amp Charger and 4 gauge cable from charger to the pos and neg buss bars going.to the lithium battery. The 7 way wiring probably will not carry the amp load of the charger.
2X. Renogy 20A DC-DC, 30 amp inline fuse, and 4 gauge wire from the battery to the Anderson power pole connector. My alternator puts out 200amps. System charges at about 23 amps under the right conditions.
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Old 10-08-2021, 01:19 PM   #16
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I personally would not use the 7 way for your DC 2 DC charger. Did you pull the fuse that powers the 12v wire in the 7 way before hooking to your DC charger? Back powering the alternator? We installed a Renogy DC2DC 20amp ran 4gauge cable from battery to an Anderson connector into the trailer to our 20amp Charger and 4 gauge cable from charger to the pos and neg buss bars going.to the lithium battery. The 7 way wiring probably will not carry the amp load of the charger.
Hi

The whole point of a DC/DC is that it is a one way transfer device. There is no way in the world that it will "back power" your alternator. It is *identical* to an what your purpose with custom wiring in this respect.

Unless you are applying hundreds of volts, there is no problem with "back powering an alternator" regardless of your hookup. There may be other things in your system that get bothered, but most certainly not the alternator.

Bob
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Old 10-09-2021, 07:15 AM   #17
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Hi

The whole point of a DC/DC is that it is a one way transfer device. There is no way in the world that it will "back power" your alternator. It is *identical* to an what your purpose with custom wiring in this respect.

Unless you are applying hundreds of volts, there is no problem with "back powering an alternator" regardless of your hookup. There may be other things in your system that get bothered, but most certainly not the alternator.

Bob
Yup, what bob said.
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:42 AM   #18
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I stand corrected yes the dc2dc is a one way charge and unused a poor description and was saying that hooking the dc2dc to the 7 way wiring you would be pushing volatage to the trailer and the TV batteries not the alternater. We removed the fuse that powers the 12v on the 7 way so we can leave it plugged in and not worry about draining down our TV batteries.
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Old 10-09-2021, 12:32 PM   #19
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I stand corrected yes the dc2dc is a one way charge and unused a poor description and was saying that hooking the dc2dc to the 7 way wiring you would be pushing volatage to the trailer and the TV batteries not the alternater. We removed the fuse that powers the 12v on the 7 way so we can leave it plugged in and not worry about draining down our TV batteries.
The isolated version allows no flow either way until it senses the higher alternator voltage. No need to unplug the umbilical.
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Old 10-10-2021, 07:18 AM   #20
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I dont use the 7 way for battery charging of the trailer so our dc2dc is only connected with the 4 gauge from truck battery > dc2dc > trailer 12 volt buss bars back to the trailer lithium.
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