Surge Protector: Internal vs. External?

[azflycaster]

Camping on the Outer Banks, NC last year and had a power surge due to a nearby lightning strike. No damage to the trailer, but the external PD-EMS unit started flashing an error code due to internal damage to the surge protection circuits.

A call to Progressive Dynamics and a new unit was shipped (no charge) to a campground we were headed to the next week. The ability to remove or replace the failing unit while traveling is a big plus.

[Mx468]

Originally Posted by Sport 16 STL

30 amp progressive internal. A little over a year, tripped once, I have remote led mounted at foot of bed. Zero humming noise. There is enough to worry about hook ups, one less thing if it is internal.

I have an internal 30amp progressive surge protector as well. Out of sight out of mind.

[Hoagie]

Internal vs. External is kind of like Chevy vs. Ford. Opinions will vary depending upon experience, use, perceived convenience, etc.

We went with the Progressive Industries HW50C with the remote display/control. Have had zero issues with it, other than it noted a momentary voltage spike in one Canadian campground last summer. When I first installed it, I did notice a hum, but it has since disappeared. (Of I've learned to tune it out. )

I went with the internal unit as once installed, it eliminates one more thing to store. I have also seen where friends had to get creative at some campgrounds to secure their external unit. If you have the room for it, I'd go with the internal. Especially if the dealer is going to install it. Due to the incredibly poor wiring done under the seat, the rat's nest of wiring, finding room where our electrical penetrated the side wall under the dinette seat was the biggest challenge.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Beewee

Contrary to previous post there is NO lag time when hooking up to power.
I saw it on Amazon today for $325 - worth every penny.

I just checked the manual on line for the Progressive internal units and there is a setting for lag time. Minimum and factory default is 15 seconds. There is a time delay jumper that allows you to change that to 136 seconds. Those time delays are there to provide a delay for the air conditioner compressor to sit in case you get a brief power interruption. Some A/C units need a little time for internal pressures to equalize in case of a brief power interruption.

My external model that I have has an arbitrary power lag that occurs when power is first detected and is not adjustable. This again is for air conditioner compressor protection.

Jack

[Vantair]

Originally Posted by Sport 16 STL

30 amp progressive internal. A little over a year, tripped once, I have remote led mounted at foot of bed. Zero humming noise. There is enough to worry about hook ups, one less thing if it is internal.

Agree with the PI 30 amp internal with others and just installed ours. (Per Best Converter recommendations) Absolutely NO Hum, internal readout/diagnostics and override switch all snugly inside.

Yes you must wire it in (1-2hours) but NO worries whatsoever if out hiking, around town or afterhours sleeping of it disappearing from a passing by lowest common denominator.

[77walter]

external ( no need to say anything else )

[GCinSC2]

And from this sofa, INTERNAL.

My logic:
Always connected.
Protected from elements and hands.
Same type power connection as primary power connection to trailer. Screw clamp vs blade and slots.
No additional plug and receptacle connections to burn up. I repaired one external units male plug for a buddy and they don’t leave you much cable to repair with.

If mine failed it might take 20-30 min to rewire straight to breaker. Slight hum was mitigated by mounting on rubber washers.

YMMV

Yup Ford vs Dodge

Gary

[uncle_bob]

Hi

First off, the term "surge protector" gets used both for very basic spike clamping devices and for full blown EMS units. You very much *do* want a full up EMS. It will detect a number of issues and disconnect you from them. A spike clamp *may* protect you from lightning ... that's it.

We started with an external and now have an internal. Why?

1) The external is spending a lot of time out in the rain. Water and electricity are not a good combo. There never seemed to be a good way to keep it dry / safe / out of the way all at the same time.

2) The external was one more thing to drag out and hook up ( or put away) when setting up or tearing down camp. It also needed to store in (scarce) external storage. Easier is better in this case.

3) The external did not have any sort of remote readout. The internal has a nice little panel that sits where you can easily see it. Knowing what's going on without going outside is a nice thing. There are a number of "nice to know" things that display tells you.

4) Ours is mounted behind the power panel. Replacing it or taking it out of the circuit is maybe a 20 minute job. Not a big deal for a "once every hundred years" sort of thing.

5) Even after a couple years of use, the external was taking a beating. Rust was showing up on some of the parts. The plastic flip down cover over the plug was long gone. Warranty forever or not, at some point it would need to be replaced.

6) The odds of taking a direct hit to the RV and having the EMS blow up are (at least to me) pretty small. There are a multitude of ways things could go with a direct hit. The only thing that is reasonably sure is that you *will* have damage, regardless of your setup.

7) Neither the external unit or the internal have ever made any noticeable amount of noise under any conditions. There are various things that run in the RV from time to time. I do notice the noise from them. If the EMS makes noise, it's *way* down compared to the other gizmos.

8) There is a correct sequence to plugging / unplugging an RV from shore power. The breaker on the post is turned on last and turned off first. After a long tiring day (or a coffee deprived morning) one *might* not quite do the right thing. The internal EMS protects you from a couple of possible mistakes.

The big mistake in all this is not having an EMS. You very much do want to have one of these gizmos. I happen to like the Progressive units. I'm sure there are other good brands out there. The whole internal / external debate is *very* minor compared to the question of "do I get an EMS?".

Bob

[Prettygood]

If it burns up doing its job handling a surge, do you want it burning up inside the trailer, or at the post?

I chose external after having that question posed to me 18 months ago

[RJJ]

I have the Progressive Industries 30 amp EMS hard wired. I haven't had a worry with it at all. Love the remote pendant - it helps me to not overload power. Never worry about it walking away or accidentally leaving it behind. Just 2 things less to worry about. The business end is installed in the converter area and the remote is on the wall next to the range hood.

My unit is silent... never heard it hum, so I don't k ow what's up with that. 🤷🏽. Good luck with your choice.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

First off, the term "surge protector" gets used both for very basic spike clamping devices and for full blown EMS units. You very much *do* want a full up EMS. It will detect a number of issues and disconnect you from them. A spike clamp *may* protect you from lightning ... that's it.

We started with an external and now have an internal. Why?

1) The external is spending a lot of time out in the rain. Water and electricity are not a good combo. There never seemed to be a good way to keep it dry / safe / out of the way all at the same time.

2) The external was one more thing to drag out and hook up ( or put away) when setting up or tearing down camp. It also needed to store in (scarce) external storage. Easier is better in this case.

3) The external did not have any sort of remote readout. The internal has a nice little panel that sits where you can easily see it. Knowing what's going on without going outside is a nice thing. There are a number of "nice to know" things that display tells you.

4) Ours is mounted behind the power panel. Replacing it or taking it out of the circuit is maybe a 20 minute job. Not a big deal for a "once every hundred years" sort of thing.

5) Even after a couple years of use, the external was taking a beating. Rust was showing up on some of the parts. The plastic flip down cover over the plug was long gone. Warranty forever or not, at some point it would need to be replaced.

6) The odds of taking a direct hit to the RV and having the EMS blow up are (at least to me) pretty small. There are a multitude of ways things could go with a direct hit. The only thing that is reasonably sure is that you *will* have damage, regardless of your setup.

7) Neither the external unit or the internal have ever made any noticeable amount of noise under any conditions. There are various things that run in the RV from time to time. I do notice the noise from them. If the EMS makes noise, it's *way* down compared to the other gizmos.

8) There is a correct sequence to plugging / unplugging an RV from shore power. The breaker on the post is turned on last and turned off first. After a long tiring day (or a coffee deprived morning) one *might* not quite do the right thing. The internal EMS protects you from a couple of possible mistakes.

The big mistake in all this is not having an EMS. You very much do want to have one of these gizmos. I happen to like the Progressive units. I'm sure there are other good brands out there. The whole internal / external debate is *very* minor compared to the question of "do I get an EMS?".

Bob

I would add that any charring is observed at the post plug-in don’t use it call the park manager.

[ROBERT CROSS]

I think brown-outs are just as important, if not more, than spikes and are a real concern for damage.
Make sure you have protection for both.👍

Bob
🇺🇸

[azflycaster]

My EMS will not work with a generator because ground is missing. You can fool it by a bonding neutral to ground plug. Since my unit is external, I do not use it while on generator power.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

My EMS will not work with a generator because ground is missing. You can fool it by a bonding neutral to ground plug. Since my unit is external, I do not use it while on generator power.

Using an Inverter Generator doesn’t present that problem, you do not need the EMS. Grounding is still necessary.

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

Using an Inverter Generator doesn’t present that problem

Why is that? I have 2 generators a Honda 1000 and a Yamaha 2400. Both inverter generators and both are missing ground.

[rmkrum]

My champion 3400 Dual Fuel Inverter genset is clearly marked, like most small generator sets (inverter or not) as having a floating neutral. Standard design.

So obtain or make a bonding plug, install it, and drive on. Easy to do.

[Atomic_13]

I agree with the prior post, the most important thing is to use an EMS. Beyond that, it’s personal preference. For what it’s worth, installing an interior EMS isn’t all that hard. Here is picture of the EMS, main panel, and manual transfer switch that directs power to my Multiplus (option 1) or directly to my main AC distribution panel (option 2 which bypasses the Multiplus).



Also, for those curious here a the plug I made for an inverter generator whose neutral isn’t grounded.

[Boxite]

The majority of portable generators have a “floating” neutral.... which your surge-protector/EMS unit will consider unsafe to complete the circuit.

The floating neutral is so-common because portable generator mfr’s have no control over how or where the consumer will utilize the generator...so they take the lowest-liability stance for themselves... which leaves the RV owner at a loss to determine how to get the generator to power the RV.

Here’s one of the better, more-complete explanations of how to solve the issue, but a simple ground-to-neutal external plug ...”plugged” into your spare generator socket... will solve the issue safely and properly:

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...onding-basics/

[SailorSam205]

I attended a seminar put on by Mike Sokol, the RV Electric guy. At the seminar last summer, Mike said that at that point, the Southwire brand EMS had recently added features not available on other brands and Southwire was patenting the method of adding the features. So his recommendation was Southwire over Progressive. Both have almost identical warranties.
In answer to a question about pure surge protection, Mike saw no issue with putting a common surge suppressor in front of an EMS.

I went with an internal PI EMS (3 years ago) mostly to prevent leaving it at a campground due to insufficient coffee uptake on some morning.

One other thing, Mike does recommend testing power before hooking up. This u-tube is his recommendation on some cheap tools to do the test:
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...outlet-tester/

[rodsterinfl]

I purchased a Southwire Surgeguard and it has done its job twice- both times under voltage. My unit cycles through a power line test any time it is hooked up.