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Old 04-15-2020, 12:57 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorSam205 View Post
I attended a seminar put on by Mike Sokol, the RV Electric guy. At the seminar last summer, Mike said that at that point, the Southwire brand EMS had recently added features not available on other brands and Southwire was patenting the method of adding the features. So his recommendation was Southwire over Progressive. Both have almost identical warranties.
I was looking very carefully at the Southwire and it has a "lifetime" warranty also. Just to be sure I read it and it has a clause as follows. I copied this from their web site.

Surge Protection Feature
Surge Guard surge protectors are designed to sacrifice themselves in order to save equipment connected to it. If your surge protector is not allowing current to pass and/or the protection working LED indicator is off, then your surge protector has performed its duty, protecting your equipment, and the Limited Lifetime Warranty is void. You will need to purchase a new unit to replace the expired unit.

I opted for the Progressive since their lifetime warranty will replace their unit if a surge fries it. I think Mike may have missed that clause.

Jack
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Old 04-15-2020, 03:10 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Hoagie View Post
Well, I did say "I" have never heard of anyone having an issue with a Surge Protector. LOL

I just spent a few minutes searching for pics of melted, burned or otherwise failed RV Surge Protectors. Didn't specify internal or external. Didn't get back any results. Can you please share where you found these pics? Not doubting you in the least. I just want to add to my collection of RVing knowledge. TIA
Agreed.

I searched too and didn't find any images for a surge protector internal or external that showed damage from taking a hit.

Images for a burned up plug don't count for this concern. That's a different issue.

Images with sources?

Gary
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Old 04-15-2020, 11:03 PM   #63
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took me about 30 seconds to find a photo of this one (scroll down)>
https://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why...rge-protector/

and a couple more took another 30 seconds>
https://www.stevejenkins.com/blog/20...ge-protection/

I still prefer internal.
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Old 04-15-2020, 11:36 PM   #64
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My Progressive Industries EMS 30 amp unit took a hit during a storm while camped at Oregon Inlet on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Aside from the error code and some splattering on the display window from inside, there was no visible damage to the unit. The service representative acknowledged that the unit had taken a power hit and was no longer functioning. A new unit was shipped to a later stop on the trip at no charge.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:46 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
took me about 30 seconds to find a photo of this one (scroll down)>
https://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why...rge-protector/

and a couple more took another 30 seconds>
https://www.stevejenkins.com/blog/20...ge-protection/

I still prefer internal.
Alan,

I think I know why my search didn't pan out, I included RV in my search words.

Mine is internal too.

Gary
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:49 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera View Post
I was looking very carefully at the Southwire and it has a "lifetime" warranty also. Just to be sure I read it and it has a clause as follows. I copied this from their web site.

Surge Protection Feature
Surge Guard surge protectors are designed to sacrifice themselves in order to save equipment connected to it. If your surge protector is not allowing current to pass and/or the protection working LED indicator is off, then your surge protector has performed its duty, protecting your equipment, and the Limited Lifetime Warranty is void. You will need to purchase a new unit to replace the expired unit.

I opted for the Progressive since their lifetime warranty will replace their unit if a surge fries it. I think Mike may have missed that clause.

Jack
He didn't miss anything...

Not quite as up front and clear. From the Progressive Industries website page on warranty:
The follow are excluded and not covered by the Lifetime Warranty and/or void the Lifetime Warranty:"
...
All acts of God and/or natural disasters including, but not limited to lightning damage, hurricanes,
floods and earthquakes"

Also on the trouble shooting/warranty claim form for Progressive:

Error Code:: Description::Trouble Shooting Steps::If error code remains
E10:: Surge Occurrence:: None::The unit has protected your RV from a surge event and is not covered under warranty. This unit will continue to provide error code information but will not protect your RV from future surge events.

Reference: https://www.progressiveindustries.net/troubleshooting
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:59 AM   #67
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I am a fan of the Progressive Industries external unit EMS PT50X. I lock it to the campsite's power pedestal. Easy. Not really certain where I would put an internal unit in my 30' 2016 Classic had I gone that route. Have not had a need to read the monitor remotely via bluetooth, etc.
Further, if the surge protector was to get 'fried', I would much prefer that the unit be outside on the power pedestal than under my bed. For me, no contest between the 'fried' unit concern versus the risk of theft.
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Old 04-17-2020, 07:57 AM   #68
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Old 04-17-2020, 08:13 AM   #69
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PI on sale now

If anyone is interested, the Progressive Industries 50 & 30 amp hardwired with remote is on sale on Amazon. (plug in on sale also.)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003AN1UA8/ref=as_li_ss_shr?th=1&psc=1&linkCode=shr&tag=trawi tkevandr-20&language=en_US&creativeASIN=B0050EH0FE&camp=213 733&creative=399837&linkId=200a32df43eaa59f0ecda5d 828b962ce&fbclid=IwAR30ho8eiPcPumbbzHrLXwpHOt6U42m nUrDEgmFWqJmYehzXmg6ojIYKiIE
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Old 04-21-2020, 09:46 PM   #70
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An external can be used if you ever decide to trade or upgrade~!
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:57 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Alan,

I think I know why my search didn't pan out, I included RV in my search words.

Mine is internal too.

Gary
Agreed. I also included "RV" in my search criteria and got zero hits. My apologies for the lack of clarity in my post. I specifically was looking for examples of failed RV protection devices.

The first link provided shows a picture of what appears to be a surge protector for a computer set up. In the second link is a picture of two surge suppressors installed in the panel of someone's home.

Yes, computer surge protectors do fail. That is why in the 20 years I was head of an IT department I never used them. Instead, I specified top-of-the-line UPS units for every server and PC installed. Other than replacing the batteries, never had one fail. I still use UPS units for our computers, NAS, TV, etc.

Both the PC surge suppressor and the whole house unit shown in the second link share one commonality: They are both connected all the time and are constantly hit with brownouts, dropouts, surges, spikes, etc. Even if the user flips off the power switch on the PC surge suppressor it is getting hit with dirty power. That power switch only disconnects the outlets, not the input.

Unless you are full-timing, if you have a PI unit like ours it only sees a fraction of the power incidents either of the two referenced units see. I'd still like to know the failure rate though, so I contacted PI and asked if they have any data on this. I'll post if/when I hear back.
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Old 04-23-2020, 07:15 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster View Post
My Progressive Industries EMS 30 amp unit took a hit during a storm while camped at Oregon Inlet on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Aside from the error code and some splattering on the display window from inside, there was no visible damage to the unit. The service representative acknowledged that the unit had taken a power hit and was no longer functioning. A new unit was shipped to a later stop on the trip at no charge.


EMS has a great warranty worth the extra dollars. I would add that another issue that gets much less attention and just as damaging to sensitive electronics is ‘Low’ Voltage ( more likely in older electrical infrastructure of some campgrounds) That will do costly damage, EMS does well too with this condition.
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:57 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorSam205 View Post
He didn't miss anything...

Not quite as up front and clear. From the Progressive Industries website page on warranty:
The follow are excluded and not covered by the Lifetime Warranty and/or void the Lifetime Warranty:"
...
All acts of God and/or natural disasters including, but not limited to lightning damage, hurricanes,
floods and earthquakes"

Also on the trouble shooting/warranty claim form for Progressive:

Error Code:: Description::Trouble Shooting Steps::If error code remains
E10:: Surge Occurrence:: None::The unit has protected your RV from a surge event and is not covered under warranty. This unit will continue to provide error code information but will not protect your RV from future surge events.

Reference: https://www.progressiveindustries.net/troubleshooting
I am addressing this directly with Progressive. I've asked them to clarify the lightning exclusion as to whether it's dealing with a direct strike to the trailer or if you own an external unit if there is a direct strike to the Progressive unit itself. Obviously most surges tend to be caused by lightening hitting the electrical grid itself or a cloud to ground strike which causes a surge through under ground service.

Needless to say if your interpretation of the Progressive warranty is correct, and the Progressive unit is not covered by lightning induced surges, it does have a warranty advantage due to the fact that the unit is repaired or replaced for free if the unit loses its surge protection due to it dampening a surge for any other reason. Southwire, as I noted previously clearly states in their warranty that if the surge protection feature is lost by the unit doing it's job, The unit must be replaced by the owner at their cost. So Mike did miss that distinct difference between the two warranties, (even if Progressive does exclude the warranty if the lightning strike is to the grid and not the unit or trailer itself).

I'll post Progressive's answer to my question. I would dare say the the majority of power surges are probably lightning induced however. I do believe that both systems are very good. But that subtile difference in the warranty is why I went with Progressive.

Jack
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:02 AM   #74
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I would dare say the the majority of power surges are probably lightning induced however.
Jack

The great majority of surges are not lightning. The really big surges almost certainly are. However motors stopping and starting among other things also produce surges, though on a smaller scale. But even these smaller surges are intercepted by the MOVs. In that MOVs are sacrificial, these small surges still cause death, though as the saying goes, death by a thousand cuts.
I've had one side of a home whole house surge protector bite the bullet as indicated by the indicator light on the unit.


From the web site "How stuff works":
A more common cause of power surges is the operation of high-power electrical devices, such as elevators, air conditioners and refrigerators. These high-powered pieces of equipment require a lot of energy to switch on and turn off components like compressors and motors. This switching creates sudden, brief demands for power, which upset the steady voltage flow in the electrical system. While these surges are nowhere near the intensity of a lightning surge, they can be severe enough to damage components, immediately or gradually, and they occur regularly in most building's electrical systems.
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:21 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by SailorSam205 View Post
The great majority of surges are not lightning. The really big surges almost certainly are. However motors stopping and starting among other things also produce surges, though on a smaller scale. But even these smaller surges are intercepted by the MOVs. In that MOVs are sacrificial, these small surges still cause death, though as the saying goes, death by a thousand cuts.
I've had one side of a home whole house surge protector bite the bullet as indicated by the indicator light on the unit.


From the web site "How stuff works":
A more common cause of power surges is the operation of high-power electrical devices, such as elevators, air conditioners and refrigerators. These high-powered pieces of equipment require a lot of energy to switch on and turn off components like compressors and motors. This switching creates sudden, brief demands for power, which upset the steady voltage flow in the electrical system. While these surges are nowhere near the intensity of a lightning surge, they can be severe enough to damage components, immediately or gradually, and they occur regularly in most building's electrical systems.

Yeah, I was speaking more of campground surges. Not a lot of high power stuff there other than the many RV air conditioners. And once it gets hot, those units aren’t doing much cycling. My biggest worry other than the storms is the potential of low voltage. That’s where the EMS systems provide their value.

Jack
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:42 AM   #76
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Yeah, I was speaking more of campground surges. Not a lot of high power stuff there other than the many RV air conditioners. And once it gets hot, those units aren’t doing much cycling. My biggest worry other than the storms is the potential of low voltage. That’s where the EMS systems provide their value.

Jack
Hi

It's a pretty good bet that your typical campground has at least one well and pump(s) to deal with it. In a lot of areas lift pumps for the sewage are also a pretty common item. The various buildings here and there likely have either large fans or some sort of HVAC on them.

Next up is that power line coming into the campground. Unless this is a very unusual campground, the line runs a *long* ways through a rural landscape. Each of the farms along the way tap power off the same line. They most certainly have some really big loads they pull on and off that line. Their being miles and miles away does not prevent the spikes from getting to you.

All that said, the absolute worst power we've ever hooked into was at a TVA campground. The giant hydro dam sourcing the power was "right over there". As they switched this and that things got *really* weird.

Bob
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:52 AM   #77
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I have had a progressive industry's 50 amp external connector for the last 6 years. I hooked my camper up yesterday to test my micro air install and the device gave me an error code of e10. That means that there is a failure and the unit needs to be replaced. I contacted the company and they told me that code indicates that the device did its job and protected the camper and it is not under warranty. I informed them that the device was hooked up to my house and there was very little chance that I had an electrical condition that would cause failure of the device. After a couple back and forth emails they had me open it up and the device showed indications of moisture damage and there was no evidence that the device protected my trailer from a power surge. As with such they agreed to send me a new replacement. Hopefully it will be here in the next couple weeks. But for those who are wondering if the progressive industries device protects your camper then it did its job and they will not provide a replacement.

One thing to consider is that my device was external and that could indicate why there was moisture damage. However that is covered under the lifetime warranty.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:20 PM   #78
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I received the new one today. It was real fast shipping. They sent me the newer model so that is great. However I do want to say that there is a humming noise that did not come from the last one. I am glad that I purchased an external.
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