Should I Keep My 2 X Honda 2000i Generators

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by thiel

I'm new to all this, but would the battery charger (built into the trailer) actually pull the full 8amps even if the batteries are not fully depleted?

Or, second question, would the same amount of power be used if you have replaced the factory "battery cooker" one-stage charger with a three stage... and the batteries were into the later stages of charging?

I'm so far over the edge of what I'm talking about here, so correct me if I'm using the wrong terms!

Nope, you're not using the wrong terms, thiel. Your questions all pertain. In a 4-stage battery charger, the stages of charging are bulk, absorption, float, and equalization. 3-stage chargers don't do equalization. Without any DC loads operating, it is really only during the bulk and the very early part of the absorption stage that the battery charger could be operating at its peak current. Later in absorption mode and throughout the float mode, the AC load required by the battery charger will be much lower, and there will be adequate generator capacity to supply the air conditioner to start and run. So, if Alan wants to completely avoid any chance of overloading his 2000W generator, when he fires up his generator, all he would have to do is wait for the battery charger to exit bulk mode and get through the early part of absorption before he fires up the air conditioner.

All is well and good here, but there is a wild card. If later on while the air conditioner is running and the battery charger is in float mode, a large 12V load decides to turn on, most smart battery chargers will attempt to supply this 12V load up to their full output capacity. So, it is possible that the battery charger could go from a very low output current back to 80A again. In such a case, if the air conditioner were running, then the 2000W generator would likely declare an overload fault.

This is where I would need to defer to all of you. Are there any large 12V loads on an Airstream that could suddenly require current when you're camped and have your 2000W generator fired up and connected to the trailer? If yes, then operating the air conditioner simultaneously might not always be reliable if your battery charger could suddenly require 1000W. If not, then once the battery charger gets most of its work done (i.e. gets to the latter half of absorption and beyond to float), then the 2000W generator will be adequate to run the air conditioner reliably...with EasyStart .

For more information on the stages of charging in a battery charger, search around online. There are lots of good references out there.

[lsbrodsky]

It is unlikely that there are any DC loads, except perhaps the tongue jack, that would affect the A/C while running in this mode. The rub is starting. If the A/C has cycled off and now calls for a start, the aggregate of normal DC loads like the refrigerator(while on propane), radio, non-led lights, and battery charger could exceed the generator capability when the A/C tries to start.
Larry

[Shiny16]

Would anyone know the specs for the AC in 2016 sport? My trailer is in storage and all of the manuals are inside. I believe it's 11500 BTU and was curious as to the steady state draw.

Jimmy

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by Shiny16

Would anyone know the specs for the AC in 2016 sport? My trailer is in storage and all of the manuals are inside. I believe it's 11500 BTU and was curious as to the steady state draw.

Jimmy

Jimmy - Assuming Airstream uses only Dometic A/Cs, the only 11,000 BTU model I know of is the Penguin or Penguin II. These units have an RLA of 10.5A for the compressor and 2.6A for the fan. Total is 13.1A. It would draw a little less when not at the rated load conditions (i.e. not quite as hot outside).

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

It is unlikely that there are any DC loads, except perhaps the tongue jack, that would affect the A/C while running in this mode. The rub is starting. If the A/C has cycled off and now calls for a start, the aggregate of normal DC loads like the refrigerator(while on propane), radio, non-led lights, and battery charger could exceed the generator capability when the A/C tries to start.
Larry

You're right, Larry. But there is a bit of a "gray zone" with the Honda EU2000i. Through our own testing at Micro-Air, we found out that it will source more than its max rating (16.7A) for a very brief period of time (about 1 second) before its output voltage collapses significantly. We've measured this short-duration surge capability to be upwards to twice its rating (~32A). Of course, no one at Honda would ever stand behind that claim since its not in any of their specifications. I'll therefore attached a big disclaimer to this since I don't want to give anyone any false impressions. There is no doubt EasyStart allows you to start and run your A/C with no other AC loads operating on a Honda EU2000i generator. We've tested this thoroughly. However, we have not done a lot of testing to see what other AC loads could be running simultaneously, so I don't want to claim anything further here. But, I'm willing to share a worst-case theoretical analysis with you if everyone is willing to accept that this is theory and not yet fact. In other words, please don't attack me since I'm not trying to claim anything to give you any false aspirations. This is just thinking out loud for the benefit of this discussion.

*** DISCLAIMER ON ***

Here are the numbers for an example theoretical analysis using Jimmy's A/C mentioned above:

• Dometic Penguin II RLA = 13.1A.
• Honda EU2000i remaining capacity with A/C running = 16.7A - 13.1A = 3.6A (~430W). This would be the maximum "extra load" allowed during steady-state operation.
• Honda EU2000i estimated surge capacity with A/C off but with extra load operating = ~32 - 3.6A = 28.4A
• Surge Current required by Dometic Penguin II during startup with EasyStart = ~18A.

So, since there does appear to be adequate surge capacity remaining when the Honda was running the 3.6A worth of "extra" load, you should be able to start and run the A/C with EasyStart, as long as the combined loads after starting are less than the 16.7A (2000W) max steady-state rating.

*** DISCLAIMER OFF ***

Thanks for the questions and open minds!

[lsbrodsky]

Matteo,

Good theory! Hard to say whether the reality is different and I suppose only experience will tell. I hope someone finds out and tells us. I am not doing any boondocking until June and I will do some real world testing then. Until then I am looking forward to the soft start feature while plugged in.

Have you done any testing with the Yamaha 2000?

Larry

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

Matteo,

Good theory! Hard to say whether the reality is different and I suppose only experience will tell. I hope someone finds out and tells us. I am not doing any boondocking until June and I will do some real world testing then. Until then I am looking forward to the soft start feature while plugged in.

Have you done any testing with the Yamaha 2000?

Larry

Thanks. No, we haven't tested the Yamaha, nor the Champion, nor any of the other popular models besides the Honda at Micro-Air. However, many of our customers have, and in all of the cases that I know of, they have met with equal success. Therefore, it is my belief that any good quality, inverter-type, 2000W generator will work just as well.

[lsbrodsky]

This guy did some serious testing:

http://padgett.performanceresearch.us/so/shootout.htm

Larry

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by Micro-Air

Alan - Sorry for the delay in replying. I was changing a starter in my girlfriend's car in a parking lot in the dark. You never know what a request for a jump start might turn into....

Your answer could have waited till morning
Though, I appreciate your prompt response!

I'll be taking a serious look at modifying the AC on my 25' trailer when I get back home this spring.

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by KenBrodin

Paired EU 2000 produces 33.4 amps max, 26.8 amps rated. The paired gives you a generous margin and the ability to run other appliances or either A/C.
The paired will use a little more fuel and take up a little more room, they add about 15 lbs and have a shorter run time.

The 2000's have fuel pumps in the gas tanks. There are after market gas caps available to connect marine fittings and use a 6 gallon marine tank to feed the pair. Mine run several days on the 6 gallon tank with the tank placed either above or below the generators. When I stop them, the small tanks are full and ready to go individually with the original cap, or as a single with the original marine tank hose, you can run one generator for a very long time. I have also read posts here regarding changing the generators to propane, and hooking them to the main tanks but I haven't done this to verify it. My Toyota Tundra tank (2014) is small enough that in the west I am more comfortable carrying two 5 gallon metal cans of gasoline in the event I can not find an open gas station. This works well under the Leer tonneau cover and I have never had a fuel smell in the bed when I opened the cover, so adding a 6 gallon marine tank is no issue.

[Shiny16]

Thanks again Matteo. So for my 16 sport I guess the remaining question is what does the battery charger draw?

[trumpetguy]

It's amazing how these threads can expand.

[lsbrodsky]

My EasyStart install:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post1911122

Larry

[Micro-Air]

Hi again everyone. In another thread topic, I just posted a detailed report about an installation we did on a 2015 27ft Airstream Eddie Bauer with dual Dometic Penguin II A/Cs. The post is available at this link. Please feel free to ask any questions in that thread.