Replacing 2 prong electrical outlets.

[ttbikes]

I am going to replace my two-prong electrical outlets with three-prong outlets in my 64 Tradewind. Should I run a ground wire from the three-prong outlet ground to the outlet box just like you would if your were replaceing outlets in your house? Thanks in advance!

[rmkrum]

Absolutely run a dedicated ground wire. It should be connected to a single point ground buss in your electrical breaker box that is bonded to the trailer shell and frame. The 120 volt neutral (usually white wire) should be connected to an isolated neutral bussbar that only connects to the shore power neutral connector. This is code for trailers. Neutral and ground (safety earth) are NOT and must not be connected inside the trailer power panel unlike house wiring.

[featherbedder]

A old electricion showed me a trick when using romex wiring. Whip bare ground wire in romex around romex install in metal box this will create ground, then install 3 prong outlet instead of fastening to outlet. When doing large jobs saves lots time.

[ttbikes]

rmkrum, I am not sure we are communicating. I have no way to run a dictated wire to the breaker box. This is a vintage tailer with just two wires and I am not replacing the wiring. In a house, you would run a wire to metal electrical outlet box from the neutral on the electrical outlet (If the wire was in conduit, I believe). So in my trailer case, from what I think you are saying, I should just leave the natural pole on the electrical outlet bare. I am changing the outlets so I do not have to use a two prong adapter.

[ttbikes]

I will take back part of what I said below. I went out and pulled a couple of outlets and the outlet does have what appears to be a ground wire attached to the screw that holds the outlets in place. I assume this wire acts as the ground. Should this wire be attached to the ground on the the 3 prong outlet or should it remain attached at the screw holding the outlet in place? Sorry for any confusion.

Originally Posted by ttbikes

rmkrum, I am not sure we are communicating. I have no way to run a dictated wire to the breaker box. This is a vintage tailer with just two wires and I am not replacing the wiring. In a house, you would run a wire to metal electrical outlet box from the neutral on the electrical outlet (If the wire was in conduit, I believe). So in my trailer case, from what I think you are saying, I should just leave the natural pole on the electrical outlet bare. I am changing the outlets so I do not have to use a two prong adapter.

[rmkrum]

That ground lead should be attached to the green screw (safety earth or ground) on the new outlets. Good that they put them in.

The silver screw is neutral (usually white wire) and the brass or black screw is the hot lead, usually black wire. The face slot for the hot side of a standard outlet is a bit shorter than the neutral slot.

[ttbikes]

That is good news and leads me to another question. Can (or should) a GFIC outlet be added to both my 15 amp circuits?

[jcslocum]

Make sure to run a simple test from the box to ground. Just to make sure!

[gklott]

Originally Posted by ttbikes

That is good news and leads me to another question. Can (or should) a GFIC outlet be added to both my 15 amp circuits?

Yes, if it will fit safely in the box, and the box has a ground wire that connects back to the isolated safety ground in your breaker panel. GFCI is always a good idea. Every AC circuit in our trailer is now AFCI/GFCI.

73/gus

[BCMtnHound]

With respect to the GFCI, what's the opinion on investing in a 15A GFCI breaker for an entire circuit vs installing individual GFCI outlets (or perhaps location the first outlet on a circuit and installing a single GFCI oulet to protect the rest of the outlet on that circuit - assuming you know the wiring schematic)?

[ttbikes]

Originally Posted by BCMtnHound

With respect to the GFCI, what's the opinion on investing in a 15A GFCI breaker for an entire circuit vs installing individual GFCI outlets (or perhaps location the first outlet on a circuit and installing a single GFCI oulet to protect the rest of the outlet on that circuit - assuming you know the wiring schematic)?

I think I have a wiring schematic some where. If not, I most likely find one online.
I did not know that they make a 15 amp GFIC breaker but replaceing the 50 year breakers is on my to do list anyway.

[BCMtnHound]

Yup, 15A single pole GFCI breakers are available for about $90CND, depending on the type of connection. GFCI outlets are around $25, and regular outlets for under $5. Size of both GFCI breakers and outlets might play a factor in replacement considerations, but I'm not an electrician so would be interested if anyone knows other considerations besides size and cost. i.e. longevity, are there shared neutrals in an AS, etc?

[robtechno101]

TTbikes you don't need a breaker, just an outlet with a safety will do. A breaker is new code for new installations in homes etc. Don't over do it. Yo said that you would not use the third ground prong anyways but just stick to the original wiring. So you don't need a GCGI outlet.
As I understand you want to use your say coffee maker with a three prong in your camper without switching the plug out every time.
keep it simple but safe. Do it all or don't.

[gklott]

Originally Posted by ttbikes

I did not know that they make a 15 amp GFIC breaker but replacing the 50 year breakers is on my to do list anyway.

Yes, you should replace all 50 year old breakers and potentially your old loadcenter.

There are excellent new OCPDs (breakers) available. The days of using simple breakers for dwelling unit branch circuits are over. The 30A service disconnect should be the only standard OCPD in your loadcenter.

When we upgraded our 30' Classic to 50 amp service, we replaced all our 15 year old breakers with the new Eaton AFCI/GFCI breakers. Eaton offers these new combo breakers in 15A (CHFAFGF115) and 20A (CHFAFGF120).

We also replaced the 30 single pole and 50 amp two pole RV outlet breakers where we park our Airstream with GFCI. All works well.

Think safe, build safe, stay safe.

73/gus
Dr. Gus Lott P.E.

[SilverHouseDreams]

GFCI doesn’t require a ground to even be present and can be installed with only 2 wires. Depending on working, you can protect multiple outlets with a single GFCI outlet as well (requires ground from GFCI to downstream outlets).

[gklott]

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

GFCI doesn’t require a ground to even be present and can be installed with only 2 wires. Depending on working, you can protect multiple outlets with a single GFCI outlet as well (requires ground from GFCI to downstream outlets).

On a two wire, ungrounded branch circuit receptacle, the NEC says you can "(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;"". This receptacle is safer than a replacement two-prong receptacle.

Do you have enough space in the wall box for a GFCI receptacle? If not, the best approach is a GFCI breaker, or preferably, an AFCI/GFCI combo breaker.

73/gus

[ttbikes]

Originally Posted by gklott

On a two wire, ungrounded branch circuit receptacle, the NEC says you can "(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;"". This receptacle is safer than a replacement two-prong receptacle.

Do you have enough space in the wall box for a GFCI receptacle? If not, the best approach is a GFCI breaker, or preferably, an AFCI/GFCI combo breaker.

73/gus

It appears that I have enough room in the wall box for a GFCI but, cold weather has kept me out of the trailer to actually try to see if it can be done safely (Why are we having snow flurries in April?). I do prefer the installation of the AFCI/GFCI combo breaker but, I am a little out of my element here. I have been looking at breaker boxes online but, the smallest I have found is 8 spaces and I am not experienced to know if my old breaker box will work, so I am going to have to continue to research. The 8 space box may fit in my space I just have not gotten out to the trailer to check. I have read that there is supposed to be compatibility in breaker boxes but, it is not always true.